that forgiveness is a choice?

Absolutely.

Dianne, I'm reading a wonderful book about forgiveness called "The Sunflower - On the Possibilities and Limits of Forgiveness" by Simon Wiesenthal.

from the back of the book:

"While imprisoned in a Nazi concentration camp, Simon Wiesenthal was taken one day from his work detail to the bedside of a dying member of the SS. Haunted by the crimes in which he had participated, the soldier wanted to confess to - and obtain absolution from - a Jew. Faced with the choice between compassion and justice, silence and truth, Wiesenthal said nothing. But even years after the war had ended, he wondered: Had he done the right thing? What would you have done in his place?

In this important book, fifty-three distinguished men and women respond to Wiesenthal's questions. They are theologians, political leaders, writers, jurists, psychiatrists, human rights activists, Holocaust survivors, and victimes of attempted genocide in Bosnia, Cambodia, China, and Tibet. Their responses, as varied as their experiences of the world, remind us that Wiesenthal's questions are not limited to events of the past. Often surprising and always thought provoking, 'The Sunflower' will Chalenge you to define your beliefs about justice, compassion, and human responsibility."

Have a good read! I haven't arrived at any personal conclusions yet.

<small>[ March 07, 2006, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: flipperjo ]</small>

A complicated question, Dianne. I may choose to forgive something that was done to me, but I can never really forget. I wish I could, but it's something I've never been able to do.

What I can and do choose is to seek forgiveness from those I have wronged or hurt. I find that comforting.

I think in this mans shoes I might have asked myself, "would this german be asking me for forgiveness if he were not dying? Or would he continue his terrible ways?" In other words is he sincere (doubtful) or just scared of the unknown he is about to enter into? In his case I'd have said nothing as well and let God sort it out.

other questions raised in this book:

Do I have the right to give blanket forgiveness to an individual for wrongs done to a group to which I belong?

Do I have the right to forgive an individual for wrongs done to another?

I can't say what I would have done, but I hope I would have apologized. The dying woman deserved the opportunity to claim the gift of forgiveness.

Forgiving as well as being forgiven is a gift.

She cetainly would not trust him, but she could forgive and feel that peace before her death.

Forgiveness is given. Trust is earned.

smile

This is a very interesting subject. And one that I think we should all contemplate - because it affects all of us many times in our own lives. Tho hopefully never in the context of holocaust.

Dianne, what do you mean , choice? I don't quite understand what you mean since it seems obvious to me that it would be a choice. So I must be missing something else......How else do you think it might be? Oh. Do you mean as if it were a command that we must forgive?

I think it's a little odd or serendipitous that this question is being raised today. I am having a personal struggle with this exact problem, and have been trying to research just exactly what forgiveness means to different people. I mean, what does it really MEAN when we say we forgive? It's certainly one thing to say, "I forgive you", when the person forgot you had a lunch date and another if someone has held you prisoner in a concentration camp. And all in between.

Then I have heard people say, well, "I can forgive, but not forget"....This seems silly to me. Of course you can't forget - if you have an intact memory, then you don't forget , unless it was something totally meaningless to you, and in that case, forgiveness wouldn't be necessary.

Maybe forgiveness means : I'll forgive you because you never realized the importance of what you were doing. Of course if it's a transgression as serious as being complicite in mass murder - it seems you should have made it your business to know. But then of course your own life could have been in danger, so forgiveness might be more easily given.

I realize I'm "going on" here, but this is a serious question for me. And what I decide impacts many important people in my own life.

I have been told by a chaplain that forgiveness really means "letting go" of your original idea about the person. That the person wasn't who you thought they were.....Well, that sounded pretty good, but somehow, doesn't seem enough.

I think what I really want, is for this person to genuinely understand what occurred as a result of their action, and then to apologize to my face with hearfelt remorse. Yep. That's just it precisely. So then, at least in my instance, the true issue would be validation of my own pain . Right?

As far as foregiveness for a group of people, I don't think one person would ever have that right. Or the power, actually. Since each person is just that - his/her own person, and each has something unique to forgive. And then no, I don't think we have a right to forgive for another. I am thinking forgiveness is very personal.

As for the death-bed scene - since we cannot ever know whether the dying person is sincere or not, and since I don't believe we can forgive for others, I think it would be best to say if you , personally, can forgive him, but that you cannot and do not have the power to forgive for another. I surely don't think I could have remained silent as Mr. Wiesenthal - as I am sure any holocaust survivor has been elevated to another plane of understanding of our world. And just to make sure that I am "speaking" clearly, I mean that if I were in Simon Wiesenthal's presence, I would feel a great reverence for whatever he thought or did. These people have seen and experienced the great depth of human depavity - evil, if you wish - and survived. Some to that level of forgiveness. I will never know whether I could or not. My inclination is to say that I could not;since I'm having a hard time with something as trivial as a blade of grass in comparison.

This has helped me to clarify some things for myself, so thanks.

Searcher

Reading what you all have written, I realize what makes the 'The Sunflower' such a good read. It makes you think. I will read one contributor's chapter and think I agree and then I'll read another with a different perspective and find myself agreeing with that one, too.

It is truly amazing what Mr. Weisenthal went through in that camp. And it is excruciating to the senses to read the atrocities the SS officer participated in. You also begin to understand the pressures he was under to 'go along' with his peers (though not justified). I am not usually big on books that require a lot of thought and that's probably why it is taking me so long to finish this one. It is a heavy topic but an important one.

Forgiveness is the ultimate gift of grace.

We are hurting OURSELVES when we choose not to fogive. Forgiveness leads to life lived abundantly, instead of in the trenches, mulling over all the offenses.

Forgiveness doesn't make the other person right, it simply makes you FREE.

I was with a group of women and one of them said she was having a problem with a certain woman who really, had been verbally abusive to her and she couldn't seem to work through it. One of the women said we'll pray about it later. I said, I think forgiveness is nothing more than a choice. You either decide to do it or you don't. So, that's what I mean by choice. To me, it's an action.

I realized yesterday I had read the story of the Nazi wrong. (Hey, I was in a hurry). Didn't have time to change my reply yesterday. Either way, I figure forgiving someone to be a gift, not only to the forgiven, but to the one forgiving as well. Forgiving others brings a form of peace. Holding on to anger or resentment only causes pain and leads to both psychological and physical disease.

smile

On the other hand, I have a friend who told me she has the gift of forgiveness. I think she has the gift of being a door mat. She somehow works and becomes friends with women who treat her horribly and cheat her out of money in business. I think she's afraid of confrontation or strife.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dotsie:
<strong> Forgiveness is the ultimate gift of grace.

We are hurting OURSELVES when we choose not to fogive. Forgiveness leads to life lived abundantly, instead of in the trenches, mulling over all the offenses.

Forgiveness doesn't make the other person right, it simply makes you FREE. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with this. I've personally seen people ill due to not being able to forgive. And this goes on for years.

The Lord's prayer reminds us how important it is to forgive, and makes it clear that we ought to forgive others in order to be forgiven ourselves.

It is a choice I make. When I forgive I am no longer allowing x incident and/or person to bother me. Resentment can't reign in my heart when I forgive.

HEre is somethign I found in a book by BJ Gallagher, Everything I Need to Know I Learned for Other Women.

Go figure!

Feel your hurt.

Open your mind.

Release your anger.

Give love a chnace.

Inquire within your heart.

Venture into dialogue.

Embrace the other person.

Nudge yourself to keep at it, even when you don't want to.

Enjoy new possiblilites and freedom.

Seek Divine guidance and help.

Savor your new serenity and peace.

Notice the first letter of each sentnece spells forgive.

Dotsie,

I printed that out to keep. Thanks for sharing.

Well, this is all very admirable, but still does not answer the question, what IS forgiveness? I mean, I agree that forgiveness gives freedom and so on, but what does that mean? In terms of daily actions, I guess. So, if I forgive someone of a transgression, (which is my natural desire to do - but am contemplating this, as another was involved, who cannot speak for themself) do I retain our before-relationship? As tho nothing has happened? I have a responsibility to the someone else also...that one who cannot speak. Of course I would like to take the "high road" here, but I'm not certain what that is.....

Maybe I'm placing too much importance on the issue. Maybe it doesn't matter at all. Of course you who know me, know I'm speaking of Nichole. And Nichole forgave everyone. No matter how terrible the insult. But I'm not sure this was right. I'm not sure that they should have been given such a blanket disspensation for the pain caused her. And she needed the friendship - so would be reluctant to speak of her disappointment. It's a hard thing to think about....

But she and those like her, should have a voice also - someone to say " This is not alright. You should pay more attention to me, and realize that I am a gift to you". And as I just said that, I remember again, that Nichole said those very words....."I am a gift to you-all, whether you know it or not"...Well, she was speaking of other members of her family at the time - she was surely a gift, and many didn't know it". And still don't.

So that is why I ask......just what does forgiveness really mean?

Search

I must turn to the Bible when considering forgiveness. Colossians 3:13 says Forgive as the Lord forgave you. That makes me ask how does He forgive me? When does He forgive me? 1 John 1:9 says "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

Since I believe the Bible is a blueprint for the way we should live our lives, it means that when a person commits an offense against us, THEY should ask for forgiveness (or at least be sorry) before they can be forgiven. Forgiveness is for people who are in relationship with each other. I do think you can put bad experiences and hurts behind you - letting it go.

I heard a true story of a young man bicyclist getting run down and killed by a drunk driver in France (he was American). The parents of the young man were in court and saw the drunk driver laughing and joking with his attorney. On the Christian radio program, the mother asked how if the driver had no remorse how could she forgive him? She was never going to see that man again. Of course she had to let it go and I'm sure the only way to do that would be with God's help.

Is there a difference between forgiving and letting go?

Daisygirl

I feel if you actively decide to forgive you have to let it go. Don't they work together?

I saw a show on a woman who not only forgave the man who killed her daughter, but visited him in prison. At first, I felt it was just too much but then, I realized that it was for her own healing. She had to forgive him so she could move on.

In doing so, she gave this man the opportunity fo find his own forgiveness with God.

Dianne,

My earlier comments about forgiveness were based on personal exprience, none of which was as dramatic as this woman's was.

The hardest part for me is forgiving someone who won't admit what they did was hurtful or wrong. I think that's the same as the letting go that Daisy asked about. I've learned that not everyone you forgive will necessarily use that oportunity to find their own forgiveness. When I forgive someone like that, I'm doing it to please myself. Selfish, maybe, but that's how I feel.

Interesting -- I just finished a chapter in the "Energy of Money" on forgiveness. Here are my thoughts -- take what you like and leave the rest.

I agree with Dotsie that forgiveness is done for me. If I truly forgive, it means I let go of the resentments and anger I feel towards the other person. I don't have to tell them I forgive them. If the person is still in my life, they will know it from my actions. Forgiveness doesn't come easily all the time and may take some time. I don't think I've totally forgiven my ex-husband for his abuse, but I'm much closer than I've ever been. I think this is good for me because he is slowly dying. (He has been killing himself with self-abuse for decades and it's finally catching up.) It will be good for me if I can complete the process before he dies. Our relationship is easier (we have a son) because I no longer bring past anger and resentment into every conversation.

On the other hand, I have boundaries which he, and others in my life are not allowed to cross. I will not be yelled at, or verbally degraded by anyone. I remove myself from the situation. That is my part. I avoid putting myself in situations that are dangerous to myself -- my part of the problem.

Forgiveness of myself is, of course, the hardest. I'm still working on that one! LOL!

Peace and love.

You are right...you can forgive a person and not even tell them...but it can be very difficult at times. If someone causes you pain over and over and over again and again and says "I'm sorry"...can you keep on forgiving them?? or do you forgive each time?
I forgave my ex a long time ago..I called and asked him to forgive me...he told me he could if I could forgive him FIRST...very profound..
KaseyC

I believe forgiveness goes hand in hand with hating the sin but loving the sinner. I may hate what the purveyor of the hurt did to me, but I love the purveyor. No one is perfect and sin is powerful. Some are weaker vessels than others and can't seem to keep from sinning. Consider Judas. Of all 12 apostles, he was the one who folded to temptation and sold out Christ.

I really hate some of the things done to me and to others, but I pity the person who did them. How horrible to be such a pawn of sin. How terrible they must feel living in their own skin and what a terrible place they will go to if they don't repent of their sins and receive forgiveness from God.

How sorry I feel for them in their depravity. BUT I do feel the necessity to protect myself and mine from the results of their weakness. I feel sorry for the pedafile because how horrible it would be to be them, but the sin of pedaphilia, is beyond my forgiveness and I will protect my grandchildren and others to the best of my ability even to the taking of a life if need be.

Another question: Does forgiving also include trusting that same person again? Especially if the offender never apologized?

It is much easier to forgive someone who you know has issues or a past filled with some sort of abuse or neglect. However, some people have no reason to behave badly except that they are evil, or anti-social. They don't have feelings of remorse.

I've been in relationships with people like that and I have forgiven them and let it go, but I wouldn't ever be in any sort of relationship with them, although I would be polite if they were in my life. Boundaries are a good thing - keep the good in and the bad out. Even God has boundaries.

Trust is a big issue for me. I wouldn't trust until trust is earned. To me trust isn't just a blanket issue. Someone has to earn my trust first then if they betray that trust, they have to earn it back again.

These days, I'm very careful about chosing the people I trust. In the past, my trust has been badly abused by people I thought I could trust and were important in my life. I could always forgive them, but I found I could no longer trust them the same way again. They usually don't get a second chance to let me down, because I'll never be that close to that person again.

This may sound terribly harsh and judgemental to some of you. But I've had to learn to keep those people at arms length for the sake of my sanity.

I believe that forgiveness and trust are two separate things. I may admire the beauty of the tiger and forgive him for being a man eater, but I will not get in the cage with him.

Dianne, that is so hard. Especially if the person has a history of lashing out.

I beleive in keeping hurtful people at arms length. Sad, but true. You can be kind to them, but you don't have to go out of your way to spend time with them.

Thoughts?

I guess I wonder if you don't really trust that person, have you not really forgiven them in your heart? Is forgiveness always complete as there seems to be degrees of it. The more I think on this, the more confused I become.

I think there are degrees...As with most things. And I have always been one to just let things go, even when I maybe shouldn't have. But this latest thing has me stumped....I guess when it involves your children, boy that's getting you where it really hurts! If you can truly forgive someone for hurting your child, you must have the forgiveness thing down pat. So I'm still struggling with this too, Diane.

I suspect you need to define forgiveness for yourself. In my mind it is detaching from resentment, anger and other negative emotions about the person -- a letting go of the incident.

My dictionary defines trust as a "firm reliance on the integrity, ability or character of a person or thing." It seems to me that that is a very different thing from forgiveness. If you know that someone has a drug or alcohol addiction which is out of control and they are very hurtful to you, you can forgive them because it is truly the "drug" talking. But, until they get help, there is no use trusting them because lying and manipulation are a large part of the disease.

Does that help?

I think that is up to the individual to answer. Do you still habor ill feelings toward them? If so, you haven't forgiven them.

In my humble opinion, I think forgiving them is turning loose of the ill feelings you have when you are around them, talk to them, or even think of them and the preceived harm they've done to you.

As stated, once you have forgiven them, you can still offer kindness to them, and NOT have bad thoughts regarding them. At the same time, I agree with holding them at arm's length.

Or as so apply put...don't get in the cage.

JJ

Amen to that JJ....one doesn't necessarily percipitate the other.

This is still a problem for me.

I don't think trust is the same as a foregiveness issue. I would still trust this person with my life, but sadly, not with my child's. Which is pretty weird. I know she would save my life, but didn't go the distance to make my child feel wanted enough.....So, my child being the extension of myself, then what????????

Confused, Searcher

God forgives our sins when we confess them to him, not before, and ask him for forgiveness. Then he "throws them into the sea of forgetfulness" never to be remembered again.

I'm not there yet. I can forgive you if you ask for my forgiveness and seem to truly regret your wrong to me. I can't forget about it though because I'm not God.

I can forgive you from afar which releases me from the bitterness of resentment without your knowing it. That releases me, but not you. You still "owe" me an apology but at that point, its between you and God not me and you.

It seems a wrong involves three people, you, the person who wronged you and God. Your responsibility for your own well being seems to be your releasing that person from responsibility for having wronged you. Like releasing them from a debt owed you. Then its up to them from there to complete the cycle.

This is an interesting subject. Perhaps I can help a little. I've read back over some of the entries for the last couple of days. Searcher, forgiveness is a choice. And it is a choice that you may have to contineu to make literally minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, until you have finally truly been aable to release it.

When my husband ran off with another woman and later returned and wanted to restore our marriage, it wasn't all romance and goosebumps--on the contrary, for me it was a minute by minute battle as I had to forgive him, over and over and over again. As images would spring into my mind or as thoughts would drop into my head I would have to take control over them and again pray and declare to God that I forgave him. It was a process that took several months, and over the years there were times when I would have to go back and forgive again as an old thought would drop into my mind seemingly out of no where.

Just because you have forgiven someone doesn't necessarily mean you need to restore the relationship. No all relationships are healthy, but I wouldn't make that decision until after you are sure you have completed the process--until that time your emotions may be tainted.

Always remember that with God there is always a 'bigger picture' Some other thing or things that He is desiring to do in you and through you. You may not be able to see it and its possible you won't even lnow it in this lifetime, but there is always a bigger plan.

The Bible clearly states that unless we forgive, we are not forgiven. the Bible says to renew your mind and to think on the good things. The Bible also says that harboring unforgiveness can lead to other destructive emotions like anger and bitterness--and these emotions if left unchecked can literally make you sick--causing all kinds of illnesses. So it is in your best interests to press on and keep working at this.

But if you are like me, it doesn't just happen when you pray one time--it is an ongoing struggle--but that's OK, its part of the process (part of your 'bigger plan' that God is working on) And perhaps if you can focus on that it will make the trip a little easier.

This is an interesting subject. Perhaps I can help a little. I've read back over some of the entries for the last couple of days. Searcher, forgiveness is a choice. And it is a choice that you may have to continue to make literally minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, until you have finally truly been able to release it.

When my husband ran off with another woman and later returned and wanted to restore our marriage, it wasn't all romance and goosebumps--on the contrary, for me it was a minute by minute battle as I had to forgive him, over and over and over again. As images would spring into my mind or as thoughts would drop into my head I would have to take control over them and again pray and declare to God that I forgave him. It was a process that took several months, and over the years there were times when I would have to go back and forgive again as an old thought would drop into my mind seemingly out of no where.

Just because you have forgiven someone doesn't necessarily mean you need to restore the relationship. Not all relationships are healthy, but I wouldn't make that decision until after you are sure you have completed the process--until that time your emotions may be tainted.

Always remember that with God there is always a 'bigger picture' Some other thing or things that He is desiring to do in you and through you. You may not be able to see it and its possible you won't even lnow it in this lifetime, but there is always a bigger plan.

The Bible clearly states that unless we forgive, we are not forgiven. the Bible says to renew your mind and to think on the good things. The Bible also says that harboring unforgiveness can lead to other destructive emotions like anger and bitterness--and these emotions if left unchecked can literally make you sick--causing all kinds of illnesses. So it is in your best interests to press on and keep working at this.

But if you are like me, it doesn't just happen when you pray one time--it is an ongoing struggle--but that's OK, its part of the process (part of your 'bigger plan' that God is working on) And perhaps if you can focus on that it will make the trip a little easier.

#5 For purposes of discussion, have you considered the distinction between 'confessing' and 'repenting' as it relates to forgiveness and trust?'

Confession comes from words that mean 'to acknowledge or accept responsibility' thus we can confess/acknowledge our wrong doing and be forgiven, but unless we "repent" which comes from words meaning 'to turn from,' we cannot again be trusted and we will suffer the consequence of our actions.

In numerous places in the Bible, people and nations refused to "repent" and were punished.

smile

that's an excellent observation Smile .... while i may confess to beating your daughter, or stealing your car, it sure doesn't mean, i can now be trusted.....

starting over... i can cerainly identify with your words .... certain memories come back...
and it seems i have to start a point one all over ... even though i was certain that particular bridge had been crossed over ....

<small>[ March 13, 2006, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

Smile, I agree there is a big difference between confession and repentence. Anybody can confess to doing something but that doesn't mean they are sorry.--and there's even a difference between I'm sorry I got caught and I'm sorry I hurt someone. If they aren't grieved over what's been done then I don't think it's genuine.

Norma--yes there will be days when you may feel you have to go back and start over at the beginning. that's OK. Forgiveness is a process. If you can imagine the roots of a plant for a moment. A plant doesn't just have one root. There are many roots and tons of tiny, tiny roots that shoot off the main roots. When unforgiveness (or bitterness, jealousy etc) have been allowed to take root there will be this kind of 'root system' all over your heart and mind. You may think you've dug out the root, but when you feel you have to go back and start over it just means that God has shown you that there was another little root that you need to deal with before it grows any bigger.

I know it's easy to get discouraged, but take heart! Starting over and working through again just means you are one step closer to being totally free of this once and for all!

Starting Over ..... as i think more on your description i cant help but smile ..... understanding is as warm sunshine eh ... For me, certain incidences which have happened, were poisonous plants and some kept reseeding ..... but now while the tap roots have been removed, evidence of their presence does still remain... if i say, you have given me a new 'trowel' and a good new seed, i think, you will quickly know how much it's appreciated .

i was just thinking also, you have given me a new word to possibly identify my faith ... 'gardener'.
Or would that be too presumptious ?

<small>[ March 14, 2006, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

I do see the difference between confession and repentence. Repentence, as I understand it, is turning over a new leaf and we may have to turn over a new leaf daily. For some of us it is a struggle. I try each day to take a moment to give up or cede that day to Christ and let him take the wheel.

Which reminds me, Carrie Underwood just released a song which touches my heart and brings a tear to my eye called, "Jesus take the wheel." I love it and I'm not a country western fan.

Today I asked God to forgive me if I have been arrogant or hurtful to anyone and asked him to take control of me and my life and help me find a way out of the prison I am in.

There are all kinds of incarceration. Some are physical and some are emotional and mental. My prison is of my own making, but in all temptations, Christ has made a way out. I asked him to show me the way out or help me to find peace where I am. I want to be strong for my daughter and GD.

I have confessed my sin and repented of it and am now trusting God to help me find a healthy way out besides crawling into a bottle.

Norma, I'm not sure what you are referring to at the end of your message, "a new word to identify your faith--gardener". ?

Are you feeling like your faith is just now being planted in good soil where it can root?

Or are you meaning that you feel your position in the Kingdom is gardener--ie nurturer?

I'm curious as to what you meant there--fill me in please!

hi Starting Over.. well .... i have come to some definite beliefs through the years ....but i am no longer christian and wont be 'converting' to another faith group, so how can i identify myself ? How can i put in words, the various things i think life is all about ? How do i express a "way' ..... which i am always learning more about? Seems like 'gardener' can descripe what i mean .... within our own bodies, is a physical structure, not unlike a seedling, young or mature tree .... and each tree is a world in itself, absorbing, putting forth, giving shelter, providing nourishment, stabalizing the ground around it .... and every single tree is part of the greater forest or garden..... and yet we are more than trees as we can bend down and pick up, we can plant and root out ... we can plant flowers so scentful and colourful, butterflys and bees will come, birds will sing.... or we can throw garbage out onto the moss, old furniture into the creek .... let the dandelions take over .... you know what i mean ?

This planet is a garden, a forest, a desert and much much more ... who am i while here ?

<small>[ March 15, 2006, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>

That's beautifully put, Norma. We are referred to in God's Word as husbandmen. That means caretakers of all that has been given to us.

I think we can find "lessons" in a lot of activities. God speaks to us using just about any medium he can. The Bible says that even nature recognizes the presence of their creator. God knows when even one little sparrow falls to the ground and knows each and every hair on your head. It even says he collects your tears and cherishes them.

That makes you very special to him whether or not you choose to accept his love and the sacrifice he made for you. That's good news, eh?

You are a nice lady.

Forgiveness is always a choice.

Corrie ten Boom was born in Holland. Her father gave Jews refuge in their home and he and his family were eventually caught and imprisoned in concentration camps. Actually, I think her father had a heart attack and died before imprisonment but Corrie and her older sister were sent to one of the more well known dreadful camps...Auschwitz maybe? Can't remember.

Anyway, Corrie survived, her sister died. While in the camp, she and her sister started a Bible study. They lived in fear of the guards finding out about the Bible study but God sent them fleas.

Yes...fleas. The guards wouldn't go into the sleeping rooms because the fleas were so bad so Corrie and her sister could share the Gospel without fear of being caught.

Corrie called herself a "tramp for the Lord" as she went across the world telling others about Jesus. She never had her own home after leaving the concentration camp; she always stayed with other people.

At some point in her travels, she found herself in the USA, the midwest. In the audience was one of the German guards at her concentration camp. She began to struggle with God...why did you let him be here? Surely he's not a Christian!?

She said God told her, "he's my child and I love him just as I love you." She continued to struggle wth God, "I can't believe you would let him be here tonight. Why tonight?" God said to her, "so you can forgive him."

ME!? Why should I forgive HIM?

She talks of her struggle with God and how God told her, "if you can't forgive him, how can I forgive you?" Corrie said after she finished talking, she went to the guard and told him how they knew each other and he was seized with fear. She told him she forgave him because Christ had forgiven her and they were now brother and sister in Christ. She said he began to cry, she began to cry, everyone around them began to cry.

Don't you know angles were rejoicing in that room with them? Don't you know the great heart of God was overwhelmed with those two people? I've often wondered how many lives were changed in that room that night. How many people will be in eternity because they witnessed such great love that was only possible because of Christ?

The end of the story...the last five years of Corrie's life were spent in bed, being tended to by others. She had a stroke and could only move her eyes and eyelids. She could respond only by blinking her eyes or turning her eyes. She spent her last five years in prayer, tramping in her mind "for her Lord".

I love Corrie's story. I think people like her have a special calling on their lives. God knows who can handle a life like that and who can't. I don't think just anyone could have withstood the harshness of her life or had the faith to sustain her through it.

What a positive story. Makes one really stop and think. Thanks for sharing Sandra....

Thistle, I read her book Don't Wrestle, Just Nestle last year. It's an oldie but a goodie.

I recall one of my favorite lines. It's something like this...and all the while God is waiting for us to calm down so He can be at work within us.

I can picture Him sitting there patiently and waiting for our craziness to pass.

We can get so wrapped up in worry and fear when all we need to do is STOP and turn to Him.

She also shared that though she traveled the world being a tramp for God, she was safest when at the center of the will of God!

I love her. What books of hers have you read?