I realize it probably won't really matter what I say because I sense the mind set is totally against anything I might produce as proof of or in defense of what I believe, especially since what I believe isn't politically correct and no matter what I say it will be construed as "hate" when in actuality it wasn't MY idea. There is an order to nature and a reason for rules and laws. Outside that perfect order there is confusion and chaos. Would you throw out the owner's manual for your car and wing it??!! But here goes:

Romans 1: 17-32 states that the righteousness or (rightness) of God is revealed from faith to faith...the wrath (anger) of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men (women) who hold back the truth in unrighteousness; because basically they can know God because He shows himself to them through his word.

The invisible things of God from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead (God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit)and for that reason we are without excuse.

We, even though we knew God, didn't glorify him as God, weren't thankful, but became vain in our imaginations, and our foolish heart was darkened. We professed ourselves to be wise and became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made to look like man and birds and four footed beasts, and creeping things.

Because of this,God gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:
who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever.

Because of this God gave them up unto vile affections (passions): for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise the men leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that reward of their error which was due to them.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: who knowing the judgement of God, that they which do those things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Romans Chapter 2 goes on to say but don't judge them because you'll be "tarred with the same brush" so to speak. Because, God has judged them already. You don't need to do it too. You're not God. He's already taken care of it. We just need to feel compassion for them and pray for their deliverance.

Leviticus 18: 22-30 (for those of you who don't believe in the New Testament) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

Defile not yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled whih I cast out before you: and the land is defiled: therefore Ido visit the iniquity upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants..

I Corinthians: 17-20 talks about the sexual sins as sins against your own body which is the temple of the Holy Spirit made in the image of God. You don't own your own body if you are a follower of Christ. Your body belongs to him and it is only on loan to you.

Thank you Searcher for you voice of wisdom.

First of all, thank you again, Number 5, for being willing to state your beliefs. I thank you for your courage and love and willingness to continue the conversation.

I have to say that I believe that the word of Jesus supercedes the Old Testament for me. I also believe that the Bible as we know it was written by men (women wrote things, but their viewpoint was excluded from the current Bible). And that these men were a product of their times. I say this not in an effort to change anyone else's belief, but so you all understand my viewpoint and can take that into account. :-))

I'm also not truly comfortable with Paul (author of Romans and Corinthians). To me, faith is a gift from God (or Henrietta). Romans 17-32 talks about the worship of idols, and, yes, that "God gave them up to degrading passions," including, but not limited to, homosexuality. Paul goes on to talk about other kinds of wickedness (evil, murder, strife, etc.). To me, this is Paul talking, not God. But, for those, like Number 5, who take a viewpoint more literal than mine, her stand makes perfect sense. (I hope I'm interpretting this correctly, Number 5. I don't mean to speak for you in any way.)

My wish would be for those who do take this passage more literally (present company excepted!), is that the rest of the passage would take on equal weight. We could then see the end of "every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice...envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness...gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious towards parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless."

Now wouldn't THAT be a beautiful world!

Thank you all for your loving voices...Take what you like and leave the rest.

Casey

I'm sorry this site didn't turn out to be for me. I was hopeful,butI'll be off to find some other forum more like I was looking for. But it's nice to have met you all. Number5, our opinions may differ, but I hope all works out well for you. Please don't continue to take any abuse, verbal or otherwise. I've done it and know how it feels.

Best wishes to all.

Just curious, Peacetrain, as to how you know this site isn't for you after 2 posts? Unless you've been reading many more and just don't like what you see. It's not for everyone. I didn't even get a chance to welcome you! Well, good luck and if you ever want to come back, I'll welcome you.

Peacetrain,

I hope it wasn't because of me... Hope you find what you are looking for though. By the way, loved that song by Cat Stevens. Loved Cat Stevens...

Or me :-((

No, not personal about anyone. I love the song, too. I'm kind of a born again hippie and just from reading a lot of the posts, I think my views won't quite fit in with the religious thread that seems to run through the site. I think its great; it's just not me.

Peace

Oh honey, you'd fit in perfect here. There are many different beliefs...just gotta dig for them! If you don't want religion, you can always go to the pet thread and read about my bird and log onto her new blogsite. I know...shameless promoting.

I hope you stick around. I love your name. My favorite singers, Big & Rich have a song on one of their CD's called Peace Train.

Yeah, Stick around, we'd love to have you - and Dianne's bird is a hoot - well, better not say that or Sammie will be saying that too. Whatta bird!!!!

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