hello: i have been looking for a forum that is right for me. i am a female (duh!), a grandma, mom, a single woman, an american of italian and celtic heritage. edit: and dutch. i always forget the dutch (that's a story for another time).

i was raised in a traditional religion but do not practice it and am not a fan of organized religion of any kind. this one fact has been why i do not fit into most groups. i think of myself as a free thinker and i like to look at issues from a non-traditional perspective.

i like to deconstruct ideas.

people with fundamentalist beliefs can't seem to stomach my ideas, and vice versa! but my motives are normally to debate and understand, not to argue.

besides this personality value, i am interested in many subjects from aromatherapy to reiki, to politics to essential oils, astrology, numerology, feng shui, food and wine, salon type conversations, many topics to do with relationships, children, women, etc. i am an animal lover.

i would like to know the opinions of people who have read so far . . . would this forum be a fit or not? i like the fact that it appears to be multicultural, but then on the "whine" thread, there was some discussion that it was not multicultural enough for some tastes.

what do you think?

i just got through reading some threads where there is a distinction between the lively debaters and the peacelovers, or tea party crew. i guess i would be a member of the former . . .

i am seeking women friends . . .women who are able to share deeply . . . it is so difficult in the "real world" to make deep connections. i do not like chit-chat. i am somewhat of an introvert and express myself best through the written word.

i do love the 19th century (?) idea of "salon" the art of intellectual, stimulating conversation. i think it is a lost art and that people today are far too busy or stressed to get together to talk "about important things."

i believe in "process" and letting things reach their natural course (in terms of seeing where the energy wants to go.

as women of a certain age (boomers) we have much in common, but as human beings, we also have all of the diverse variables of personality, circumstances, temperment, etc.

it's interesting that everyone has their own, specific ideas regarding what would make a great forum. for me, it is exchange of ideas without ridicule and also without oppression. the ability to say what you mean and mean what you say . . . i admire that.

i don't like pressure to "be a certain way," whether that is be a certain temperment, or ascribe to a certain belief system. i find it oppressive sometimes that those who do not have high tolerance for conflict might try to shame those who have higher tolerance into silence.

i support voices of women, children, and animals, in the sense that i want to hear what everyone has to say . . . and what everyone feels.

playing nicey-nice (in terms of squelching real feelings) feels oppressive to me. i am very passionate about ideas. and i want to be able to connect with other women who feel passionately about things.

Welcome seek. Glad you found us. All I can say is hang around and see what you think. We are always glad to see a newcomer with much to offer. Maybe we are just what you are looking for.

O we have passionate women here too, seek. What is different about this forum compared to many others is the great respect for one another. Occasionally some comment may be taken too personally, and reacting sensitively is probably a woman thing, but those who remain are loyal and feisty.
Sounds like you fit in. I'm looking forward to getting to know you.

I agree with the two posts above as well as much of what you have written seek. Hang around awhile and get involved in some of the treads, all if you can handle it, and see what you like and dislike. We are all about acceptance and if need be change, for the better we hope. We are mostly wives, mothers, widows and just plain women friends to one another. Always in thre market for some fiesty conversation as well. Me, I'm widowed, retired, but own my a business as well. Two grown rather inconsiderate sons but then thats another story...WELCOME!

Welcome. If you've read many of our posts and chose to post, then stick around and see how it works. Personally, I'm not a big debater, but there are certainly women here who are. The forums were launched to connect, encourage and support boomer women. The people who stick around are the ones who can live by those concepts.

Hi Seek and welcome!!!!!!!

It sounds like you might enjoy the varied topics and posts on this Forum. I know I sure have! I'm someone who loves to support and encourage AND choose which posts I get involved in or don't. I'm hugely interested in what are considered "alternative" paths (soul retrieval, past life regression, healing modalities such as Reiki...I'm a 2nd Level practitioner at the moment), helping others live a passionately fulfilling mid-life experience, raising the world's positive energy, and learning all I can about those topics. I am definitely a "non-traditionalist" when it comes to spiritual belief systems, do a lot with Law of Attraction, Law of Resonance and helping people make choices that support a positive life style by rewriting disempowering life stories.

I look forward to learning more about you and am sure you have some truly interesting viewpoints to share!

thanks for the welcome! i realized that my posts might be off-putting in the sense that i just put it all out there without any warm up, but i think that connecting with women friends is so important to me that i didn't want to exert a lot of energy if this was not going to be an accepting, open place . . . but then again, i know that "nothing ventured, nothing gained," . . . "there are no guarantees," and all that.

so i will take the advice and jump in where moved to.

i look forward to getting to know all of you!

Seek, it took guts to jump in with your post with "no warm up" as you described...you obviously have had some experiences that led you to this decision and we all certainly understand that! Good for you.

We all look forward to hearing more from you, and about you. One word of caution I'll offer and that is if you post something and you don't get a response right away, please don't be offended. Sometimes we're all so busy we skip the forums for a day or so, and then again, sometimes we just feel we have little or nothing of value to add. So take heart, we're reading and will eventually get to it!

thank you, jaw-jaw. i appreciate your thoughtfulness.

my experience on other forums has been that there can be cliques. i think this is natural. i have been an insider and an outsider, so i think i understand the dynamic.

i think it is difficult to find people on the same wavelength . . .kindred spirits. that is what i am hoping to find. kind of a lofty goal, but one can always hope.

it can be lonely when one has ideas that are outside of the mainstream. i wish i could be more mainstream, just for the simple fact that i would have more friends. but it is not me, so there you have it!

Seek, there are NO cliques here to speak of. Some of us have met one another in person and have a special bond, but every woman here is loved, accepted and a part of anything she wants to be a part of. We try to have a get together every year but some have no time, some no money and some live clear across the ocean. But we do try. JJ is correct that sometimes it takes time to get to each and every post as you too will see, but hang in there because we do try. What are your plans for Christmas? Oh and I am Italian as well. Sicilian, with all the bells and whistles!

seek,
Welcome and I appreciate your candor. I hope you find a fit in this forum and stay. I look forward to your posts.

I am also one who likes to discuss, but not to the point of hurting anyone.

We have some shared interests. I am also Italian. Hopefully we can connect on a thread or two!

Dancer9

Seek, when I first came to BWS, it was because I wanted to make deeper connections, even in the cyber realm. I'm not good at chit chat, and I am called "deep" and "serious." I've been asking JJ to clone me some of her humor gene. But now, I find myself more light hearted on BWS. So, either way, it's great to make the connections here. I like your tag line. Oh, I am Italian, 2nd generation. No 3rd to follow on this family tree. I love animals, even the tiny Preble mice that occupy our home on cold winter nights. Alas, the mice don't stand a chance with the killer Westies poking around.

thanks for all of your heartfelt responses and welcomes. i look forward to getting to know all of you.

Welcome seek. There are wonderful boomers on this site; and, I
think you'll find kindred spirits lurking in the shadows. I'm into non-demoninational religion and freee-thinking souls. Members here are cool. Hope you enjoy the site and find what you're looking to find!

Hi and welcome, Seek. This is my home-away-from-home. I suppose that these days I'm in more of a "tea party" mood. I'm passionately committed to the "caring, connecting and supporting" aspect of this site. I enjoy and celebrate the exchange of ideas and embrace evolving, both individually and as a community, but admit that currently I'm in a space where I can't handle too much heated conflict, especially if defending one's opinions ends up diminishing another person's right to their beliefs and opinions.

As a community, we're growing, evolving, learning as we go how to best embrace "unity in diversity", how to celebrate, respect and honour one another without stifling or diminishing each woman's wisdom. My personal stance is that our unique blend of history and experience has allowed each of us to pick up valuable pieces of the puzzle, and that none of us are entirely complete as long as even one little piece is missing.

Sometimes we do get tangled up in conflict, but I think that listening and learning more about each other just makes us stronger, and hopefully more compassionate toward each other in the long run.

thanks for your welcomes! very generous considering my introduction, which could have been off-putting!

i hope this is a place where people can agree to disagree . . . and where the occasional off-day or faux paus can be tolerated or ignored.

i like the metaphor of the puzzle, where everyone has a place, and each viewpoint is welcome.

i have a world view that says that all of the voices need to be expressed and that there is a space where they can be heard.

I should probably clarify that my tendency to withdraw from heated discussion/conflict at this time is solely because my personal life is so full of stressful situations right now, so I just have to bow out (wimp out?) when things get too overwhelming (here or anywhere). But that doesn't mean I agree or disagree or don't care, it just means I'm probably having a tough day and can't muster the energy to delve any deeper. This too shall pass.

I do love diversity of thought, and am especially drawn to spiritual diversity, and am also passionate about creating safe places and "sacred ground" for all voices to be heard.

I also believe that every woman who steps over this cyber-threshold is meant to be here and brings wisdom and gifts that we all need to continue healing, learning and evolving forward.

seek,
Like Eagle, I too, have huge problems in my personal life and am sort of fragile. I know. Heartache on top of heartache tends to weaken one's spunk. I do, however, appreciate other viewpoints. Should I not see eye-to-eye with another's opinion that's cool. But IMO we learn by example and by listening 'n evaluating different folk's ideas. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year and good luck in all you do!

Oh Jabber, I so hear the use of the term "fragile"...I am too and am only just beginning to realize that. I've been labeled "strong" all my life and felt that had to be truth and I worked to live that way, which, in actuality, ended up making me even more fragile. And given my "sturdy" physique (there, I found a nice way to describe my physical being...guffaw), I most certainly don't LOOK fragile. My DH has only recently begun to realize how truly fragile AND strong I am and begun to accept that that is the persona he is both attracted to and frightened of.

Take care of yourself girl...and do let me know if there is anything I can do to support you!

Welcome Seek. You certainly sound like a very interesting individual and I am curious as to how you're going to respond to some of the forums. The women here, from my point-of-view, come here to find a place for the meeting-of-the hearts and minds of others...for support/advice/venting/humor/kindredship...the best part of BWS is that there's no bashing of one's feelings here...it's a safe place to fall when the world around us is going to pieces. So, welcome to the best place on the internet...and jump right in...and JJ is correct...don't take offense if you don't get responses or if they're slow-coming. All is meant well by everyone here for the most part.

Hi Seek...from one noob to another...my take so far in the posts I've read here is that I sense not only a respect but also a desire for all the richness and diversity that make up Boomer Women...after all...that's what makes our generation unique...ain't life grand???

wow! everyone who responded seems so candid and genuine. thanks for all the welcomes.

great points about where a person is coming from in their own lives. i think often we don't know that about people . . . what challenges they may be facing and it does impact everything so it is good to know.

and i also wish everyone who responded all of the best and i look forward to getting to know you.

Seek, a belated welcome! Considering your diversity, do you by chance read science fiction?

hi mg: no, sorry. i tried as a teen, but only got as far as l.ron hubbard (funny now) and kurt vonnegut and i don't think that counts much!

i am more into non-fiction than fiction, as a general rule.

can you give me a link to a thread where you discuss your interest in science fiction? i would like to read about it.

hey, seek, don't have a link; yet, i'm hooked on Stephen Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.

Hey MG..I've primarily been into non-fiction (especially bios) most of my life. My second husband was a sci-fit "nut" who helpe me find genres I might enjoy (up to that time, the only thing I had read was "Stranger in a Strange Land"). Now I'm married once again to a sci-fi "nut" who both reads (rather consumes) and writes sci-fi. Never thought I would find so much enjoyment in it and I do. In fact, the main part of our wedding ceremony was from a Merceds Lackey book (boy, did the rumours fly rampant when I said I was inviting everyone to a "joining" instead of to a "wedding"...the term was from that book and helped me get over my terror of the word "marriage"...grin).

I've not read any of Mercedes Lackey's books, what series have you read and recommend (preverably with horses)? Considering the next Thomas Covenant books is not released until 2010, I'll have plenty of time to read her books!

As far as female sci-fe authors, I've always enjoyed Anne McCaffrey's Dragons of Pern series. Also, as a teenager, Madeleine L'Engle's Wrinkle in Time series.

A few years ago I read a book by another female author that has sinced passed. Although I can't recall her name, I'd like to discover it. Maybe if you have the time, I can give a brief synopsis and perhaps you could help me rediscover her books. I understand another female author may have stepped in and finished the series.

Hubby likes sci-fi movies. The Twilight Zone was the only sci-fi
I ever got into. Someone on here has a signature something like
this: [Be nice to everyone you meet, you never know what they're
going through.] And IMO that is so true!

Mama Red,
You do help with all the kind words you write. Your Christmas
Card was a joy. Your posts are uplifting and supportive.
Thank you for being you!!!!
Prayers and blessings,

Hi Jabber

I'm glad that my words uplift and support...that is my intent, always! And I'm glad you enjoyed the card...it was fun making it, Although it took me a while to figure out the "how"!

Your voice on this forum is a real gift and I'm grateful I've met you!

Hi MustangGal

The most recent series I read of Mercedes Lackey is the "Elemental Masters" ....I don't know of any with horses, I'm sorry to say.

And if you get me a description of the book you mentioned, I'll see what I can do to find the author for you. My DH is a walking sci-fi encyclopedia, so I'm guessing he can figure it out!

hellow seek

i am a celt (scot) 2 nd generasion italions, a little spanish a litlle french, a little tinie bit english a little bit gypsie or travellors as more commonlie called heer lol.

so thats both sides of my parents familie done but i was born in scotland so i am still a celt.

Spiritualitie typical non christion but understand and am at peace with christianitie and you won''t have ladies bashing you into being christions heer and if they do then someone hads a wee word with them as iv seen it happen and we all learn a bit more. More importantlie don't worrie your gonna be discriminated agenst i am sure most )in my experinses) will respect you as much as you respect them and it won't all hinge on pathways to the devine.

I intresting in thigs spiritual and emotional too and undertook the healing stuff to do with those areas, i am a reickie teacher/master and also teacher master to the femine form of that energie schechime (eygeption), councelling and psychology and hypnotheripie that type of thing so i sure we have loads to chat about.

I am also dyslexic and keep meaning to redowenload mozila to spell cheek my stuff so i much better talking face to face than typing screen to screen. so stick with me untill i get my stuff together to dowenload this lol manie will be relived (shuuuu!)


I am a mimmie of a wee nearlie 5 yr old boy i don't clean my house enough and chatt to long but i am living my life a nice way.

i certinlie wase't put off by your post and enjoyed your open frenkness so welcome enjoy your holidays and hope to be chatting like mad with you soon. oh i don't mind a healthie livlie debate as long as it is healthie and livlie lol.

i come and go on the forums so if your adressing me and i don't answere feel free to draw my attension to it via pm and i certinlie jump in again for a chatt on whatever your talking about.

we all seem like a jumbvle of names but soon you'll tell us apart , well the regulares and see our owen personalities likes and dislickes etc.
have fubn while thats happening and don't forgett you can start topics up too

thank you, celtic for introducing yourself. on the racism thread, i asked about your heritage and had not seen this yet.

my celtic input is scotch, irish and welsh, apparently (the latter is rumored not confirmed). i identify greatly with celtic women . . .communion with the earth, affinity with the animals, etc. i am also a fan of the weather.

i am also a reiki "master," although i hold that title lightly. i don't identify with being a master. let's just say i have reiki.

i have been discriminated against by "christian" women before . . . both in "real" life, and online. some people have a low tolerance for what they see as "alternative" beliefs. many people do not understand that there are many different paths to the divine.

one of the christian beliefs that causes so much trouble is the one that says that members are supposed to recruit other people into their religion . . . so they feel compelled to do so and justified in doing so. when i think of missionaries i cry for the lost cultural heritages. but enough of that for now.

i look forward to interacting with you. what is the time difference, i wonder?

Seek, welcome to this wonderful place!!

Hello all Newbies.

I have been away for quite awhile, but wanted to give you a big hearty welcome.

i whole understand and identifie with the anxietie that your gonna be picked on regarding religion or no religion and it could happen heer if it dose pm dotsie straight away and she work with you and whomever to bring about an understanding and mutule respect for each others belifes.

the big chat i had after introducing myself was one on religion. I have a son at school and dominent religion is christianitie i have no other choice than to send him to such schools.

I don't wanna directlie contradict what he's being touch as this be too confusing for him but i do broden his perspectve on the subjict with "and thats what some people belive" Then introduce other type of organised and non organised religions to his thinking. I think one of the best things i can teach my wee one is the abilitie to question, the world and its perseptions full stop.

The other is respect ther religon as youd want them to respect yours (whatever his will eventulie be) for me just to work within his guidlines but broden them at same time. That was some of the stuff that i gained from that inicale chatt of how do i deal with my son and what he's gonna be touchte

Anyway So that was my big chat when first heer and i made some christion frrens through it as i respected them and found they loved and respected me,while carriing the central tenent of christianitie which is love all others christions being christions in other words not bigeted bullies. which had also been a rough and damagin experiense, so the frendships i made in fact perhapps even undone some of the rough edjes that weer created by being buffeted by fundemental fervern christions assuming and telling me id burn in hell for my practice and then my lifestyle lol. Those good women are still frends today and i meet them heer! I was defensive of myself naturalie but was becomming close to being predigist agenst christians which had crept up unconsiouslie and certinlie not what i had wanted to happen within me, i was becommin close to being a hypiocrite.

I will swap the word god to godess to devine power or anything els that takes my fanciy at the time. I think the others heer know i just swapping words we all call the same sacred energie or consiousness.

I hope you meet some of the same people and feel cherished and supported also. Again if descriminasion dose occure then state your stanse but also pm dostsie and tell her, i have faith in her judgement and she genuinlie wants us ALL to be supported. We all learn from each other and who knows what you will learn and who knows who you will teach.

enjoy your time, debate with the debaters and have tea with the tea partie people as you called them as they all have a value and a lot to give while still being themselfs.

this place can be a rich and rewarding through provoking place. My owen mind has been changed about some things and i have witness others mind being changed as they gone to a diffrent level of understanding.

i am sure we find out more about each other as we go along and ya get to know a lot of the women heer.

good luck.

celtic, what a lovely post. I appreciate your words on the spirit of BWS. I also like your comment on lives and minds being changed as a result of being here. I know I'm more compassionate due to reading the life expereinces of BWS women. Here we get to know the hearts of women. I believe the hearts of the women here are in the right place; a place to share honestly.

celtic -- I love what you wrote. But more than that, I love that I can hear your brogue? accent? in it by the way you sound out the words you write and want to encourage you NOT to use spell check as you've said you will do. Forgive me for saying so.

thank you, everyone who has commented for your advice and support. i guess i wanted to "lay it on the line" because i don't want to be blindsighted and i want people to know who i am so there are no assumptions, re: religious beliefs. i have never noticed before the internet that christianity was so prevalent in the u.s. . . . i know that sounds dumb . . .but most people whom i meet on a daily basis do not preach to me or i am not aware of their beliefs. and i had read a study that not so many people go to church . . . and in the neighborhoods i have lived in, most people i know do not go to church. but online there the beliefs seem to come out and there is often an assumtption that everyone shares those beliefs.

it bothers me from a couple of different perspectives . . . one is the fact that supposedly america was founded on the idea of relgious freedom. i always took that literally. i didn't understand the nuance that it pretty much was to defend against the church of england but was interpreted that people could creat their own religious sects. i have always wondered why there are thousands of christian denominations . . . some that only differ over very seemingly insignificant differences. but now i see that as an interpretation of the idea of religious freedom.

it irks me that some religions in the u.s. are so marginalized. buddhists, etc.

it was not until the bush administration that i came to see that the u.s. is a christian nation. i didn't realize that before because i was concentrating on the idea of religious freedom.

i did a doctoral dissertation (uncompleted) which educated me a lot on this subject and truthfully sickened me to the point that i could not finish it.

lest this sounds terribly negative towards christians, let me just say that i was raised christian and the ideas that christians would be christ-like in their actions would be very appealing, but you don't see that much (or i don't). if everyone were accepting and loving then there would be no problem. the problems i have are with the incongruities . . . using god to win from football games to wars. and the horrible things that "the church" has done during the inquisition, etc. the burning of "witches" did not endear me to "the church," especially when the "witches" were indigenous females using the abundance of the earth to help feed and heal their families. that has all been lost. the love of the earth and the use of herbs to heal and enrich lives.

and i even had to work hard to untwist the propaganda that "witches" and "satan" seem to be intermingled in the church propaganda. people say "devil worshipper" and apply that to "witches," and the "witches" i am talking about are european women who learned mid-wifery, cooking, medicinal uses of herbs, etc. to nurture their families. that is a far cry from devil. but as i understand it, they became too powerful and "the church" felt threatned and decided to burn them. that was a holocaust that no one talks about or really even seems to care much about. i have heard the numbers were millions of women slaughtered.

i feel bad bringing this up because i do not wish to cause hard feelings, but i think the issue of racism and mysogeny is related to a larger issue of patriarchal rule.

i think the celts had much indigenous wisdom and i wonder what their take is on the witch burning, et al and how they think about that now.

i am also curious if the indigenous, ancient religions have survived or if they have been completely forgotten and overruled by "the church."

another thing i want to say about myself is that i do not like private, hateful messages. if a person has something to say to me, i would rather hear it "in public."

i understand that i write about issues that are charged and that there may be misinterpretations or strong reactions to my words. i will do my absolute best to be respectful.

i do not appreciate being told to shut up. i am an idealistic person and when i was growing up, i was taught that america was a land where there was equal opportunity, religious freedom, and that freedom of speech was held in high esteem. i was also taught to "think critically" (this is before public schools became so inept and politically correct). we were encouraged to debate and to support our arguments. it was considered that a person was intelligent if they could argue a subject. and this type of debating had nothing to do with bullying or abusing someone, but just talking about ideas and challenging the ideas of others. it was considered educational and good fun.

now that has all changed and if you raise an issue that people don't like, they take it personally, get hurt feelings, try to attack you, and then try to shut you up. i have seen this over and over again. you get accused of "ruining everything," as if talking about issues is hurts people's denial systems. there are problems . . . there are things to work out. everything is not hunky-dory. some people care enough to want to talk about things. those who don't wish to talk about political things do not have to. no one is forcing them into the fray where these "negative" issues are being discussed.

i don't pay any attention to threads that hold no interest to me. why would i? and why do other people feel compelled to go into a thread they do not like, just to shut the people up who are discussing a subject? i will never understand that.

i politely asked the person not to contact me via private message. i believe private message can be used as an attack with no repercussions. the person replied back that they will do what they want and who do i think i am.

i find this kind of commuication hateful and i am posting my response to it here because i am not going to be a victim.

again, i will ask all publicly. if you have an issue with anything i say on a public forum, please reply to me publicly. if this is about having an exchange of ideas, people should be able to do that without attack.

i do not wish to receive attacking pm's. i think that is fair.

i have never been a fan of pm because i feel it can be used for gossip and secret attacks. i am sure there are pm's flying right and left about me and that is fine, as long as i don't know about it.

i am just asking for some respect as a human being with viewpoints that might differ from the mainstream.

if i have said anything that offends you personally about racism, womanhood, religion, etc., it is just my viewpoint. it does not threaten you. i am not asking anyone to change to my viewpoint. i am not asking you to change your ideas or your religion. i am just talking about my ideas. if you believe in free speech, please just leave me alone or disagree, respectfully. thank you for your consideration.

Seek, I sent you a PM about this situation. Please read. Thanks, JJ

Ladies, please do not reply to this post. Thanks! JJ

on the middle east thread, chatty lady said:

"There seems to be one woman who has posted nothing since arriving here but topics that have hurt, insulted and instigated unrest and unpleasantness, and she calls anyone who disagrees with her underhanded snipes, a CLIQUE.

We are not a clique BUT we respect one another, we are friends and we stick up for one another and for this forum and what it stands for, as we would for you except for the fact that that isn't what you're here for is it seek?
Well, seek and you will find!

Sorry Dotsie but it needed saying, because of this and several other threads this same nonsense is going on in. One bad apple will ruin the bunch. I would appreciate this post being left as is. Thank You."

on one hand i have to marvel at the new label of "bad apple," but on the other hand, i have no words.

i will no longer post on this forum.

i do wish you all the best and hold no hard feelings.

the only political comment i will make is that this particular board does not allow the voices of ALL women to be heard. and that's ok.

Dear Seek, I have been keeping mum in the threads with hot topics for two reasons. Some of the posts were so long, and I just didn't have the time to read everything, which makes it risky to respond. The other reason is; - I was chicken. Yup,..I admit it. From what I did read, I could witness some hard mobbing against you. But I kept my mouth shut, because I didn't want to speak against my good friends here.

Now it's time to speak up, and express my true feelings. I didn't read any racism or antagonism in your posts; not at all. Just the contrary, you repeatedly stated how you are a peace supporter and hate war. You simply wanted to view the Gaza fighting from both sides. I agree, it is the only way to try to understand conflict. I do the same thing,

I can understand if you want to leave the forum, but I for one would be happy if you change your mind and decide to stay. You have my deepest respect for holding your own, and I want to tell you that I agree on many issues you have brought up.

Oh, and please don't anyone misconstrue anti-Semitism from my part. My Grandfather was Jewish and killed by the Nazis. I was raised Catholic,…but at this point I think I'm just a religious mongrel. I'm beginning to believe that could be the healthiest attitude ever.

Edelweiss

sorry you feel that way seek you could't have fitted in heer with some of the women. Fitting in or teething trouble was/is perhapps some of the problems.

In all respects if you go then good by and if you stay then i be talking with you later.

Ew good for you for talking you mind, i am sure your frends won't see you as antisemetic or anything else than you just being your lovable self.

I too have been standing on the sidelines. I'm too wimpy to participate in these heated discussions; you know the saying, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen; well, I do, stay out of the heat here. And I cannot speak with any great expertise on anything political, it's just not my forte, and I have too little energy to spare to come up to speed to the point where I feel comfortable contributing. So I'm not going to say anything about any of that.

What I do want to suggest, not just to Seek but to anyone new, is that you make an effort to get to know us, ALL of us better, not just the women who actively participate in the controversial arenas. I often notice that some of the new women who arrive here wanting to start these hot topics don't bother to venture anywhere else on the forums, but stick solely to those few threads that they themselves start. That doesn't give you an accurate picture of who we are as a whole community here at BWS, it only gives you a one-faceted glimpse into the political face of SOME of the women here.

Not all of us are or can be interested in every topic or discussion going on here, but I think it's worth at least taking a trip every now and then to see and hear what other women are doing, at the other facets of the women who are participating in the hot topics but who are so much more than just that one face. IMO, until new women begin to risk getting to know us better as individual persons and begin to care about the real stuff going on in each other's lives, this place will never feel like the home that it is to us who DO take those risks and who do make those journeys into each others' lives and hearts.

seek, I owe you an apology. I saw that post late last night and quite honestly, didn't have the strength to do anything about it. This morning I got up early to work on the newsletter and take my daughter to school, and then I had class. I'm now home and finally getting around to addressing this. This was a hurtful post and I am heading there to delete it. I read several of your posts that had nothing to do with hurt, insults or instigating unrest or unpleasantness. You are welcome to carry on, but I certainly understand if you feel as though you have been mistreated.

seek, I guess I'd missed chatty's post earlier in the day because I went to that topic and read through some of celtic's posts, but didn't have anything to add. Politics aren't my thing. Again, my apologies. The post has been removed.

Seek,
If you came here seeking friends and women you could talk to, then you will work things out and stay.

Please read this whole post before giving up on it...

If this was a way of you studying how a group on line would react to a "wrench thrown into the machine," well, may I say it was a 5th grade level experiment. In order to do that, one would have to find a median response level first and then move off into challanging members to find their method of dealing with you. Since your entry, (read your first post,) sounded like a challange, I'd say your study model was flawed and you should have mapped out your stragedy better. Of course, the machine would throw out the wrench, again a 5th grade level conclusion. The whole educational model was immature.

If you came here for challanges, well, you got them. You started posting about controversial subjects and the members here gave as good as they got and met your challange. This, again, is simplicity and one could speculate the outcome.

As Eagle Heart said, if you got to know the members before challanging them and if I read correctly, that's pretty much what you did here on the site, you might have had a different outcome.

Again, I state, all is not lost. If you came here in honesty with good intententions and looking for the things that BWS provides, you can stay and these women would gladly work things out with you.

I have been on the end of the "hate stick," here and I know that if you stay and stay true to yourself, they will accept and come to embrace you. You only need to reach out from INSIDE the heart and forget the mind for a moment to reach the hearts of the women here, for they are good women, for the most part, and understanding of each other and new members.

I'd like to see if you can stay and make your membership meaningful and honest. YOu did not, after all, join a political debate forum, you joined a forum with threads carefully laid out to support women and yes, discuss the hard things when they bother you.

To support women of a boomer age. Support.

I dont' think anyone is as much as an outsider than me, or perhaps I have my equals with that regard but I do know that again, these women are loving, understanding, and respond in that way to anyone who joins, new or not.

do them justice and come back with open mind and HEART, and they will accept you without hesitation.

if you do not return, it shows this poster that you made your mark in arguements and perpetual challanges to the ladies here.
I don't mind you coming here to do that, I believe in freedom of speech, mind you. BUT, again, this is not a politial forum and you should find one that will discuss Israel ad nauseum, I"m sure there are MANY out there.

To be fair, I saw one post about family where you attempted to open up and talk about something that could INCLUDE instead of EXCLUDE. The women responded with kindness and understanding if you had noticed.

As to one poster who insulted you, well, I took some pretty hard kicks from a few posters here but cared enough to stay the course. You might try that. I still get my "hard subjects," discussed, but I also have a bond with many here.

Dotsie has honored you with removing the post if I have read this right and that should satisfy you, I know it did me.

With only the best regards,

Dancer9

I don't know who contacted you by PM seek, I never did.

What I have to say to anyone, I will say in open forum, thats only fair.

And you needn't leave this forum, I WILL!!!

why would you leave heer chattie, you been heer 5 years and been a very active member. A newcommer arrives and takes exeption at one of your post! so!.

we get some things right and some things wrong heer and being critisised is not plsent but we all done some critisising of each other, right or wrong. People feel offended right or wrong, people are reacting right or wronglie. just people are doing.

you would have to be an angel never to offend or hurt anyone heer for all of your 14,401 posts, I have seen you apoligise when you think your wrong or have hurt someone. So i know you know you do not always get it wrong or right.


i not sure it could be done the never offending or never making a comment that is hurtfull or never being misunderstood. We are all humane with feelings that we let show at times thats all that happend. You were defending your point of view, your frends, your communitie and a cou ntire at war in a difficult descusion. Thanks for the loyaltie you showed to your frends.

No ones picking sides or picking seek over you, one we don't know, who may or may not have been misunderstood.

some women want to extend some welcome and some suggestions about becomming a member for sure and knowing us as we are strenths weeknesses and all bulding a bond with some women giving and sharring with some women.

some people do not agree with your posts, some people do agree with it and think its faire enough for what was going on in those moments. Embarising a bit but thats all it is the embarisment of someone not agreeing with you, don't let pride drive you away from your people heer, plz not for that reason.

I hope you'll calm dowen, put things into perspective and come back to wheer you are loved and cared for.

heers hoping.

i am not feeling well at the moment, but i will probably respond later.

i would not want to see an oldtimer leave because of my presence.

Thanks for you incite Celtic, but this has nothing at all to do with being embarrassed, heavens no, I have a thicker skin than that, believe me.

My decision has to do with loyalty and knowing "ALL" the facts before taking action...

I feel I am at least owed that much as an active member, 14,401 posts, and someone who has proven that all I have is love for my sister boomers. I have never in all my years here begun a hateful or troublesome thread, not ever, as I never want to see anyone hurt by what can come of that kind of thread.

I am 'NOT' looking for sympathy either. You are all better off going to happier threads and let the inevitable occur, as it will with the attitude being formulated here now.

Anyone whose email I don't already have that wants to keep in touch please send your email address's to:
ccmeditor@cox.net

I am taking a break, probably a permanent one, but know my heart is always with you and I will miss being here among all my friends/family...

Bye, I love you all, and God Bless you.
Charleen (Chatty)

Seek, as soon as you joined, I got pm's from women here saying "you should read this..." and for two weeks I read and said nothing. For two weeks I watched because I give everyone a chance. I am rational, I am fair, and I make up my mind based on all evidence. For two weeks I observed and analyzed before commenting at all, before coming to any conclusions.

The problem isn't that I DON'T understand you; the problem is that I DO.

The problem isn't your political views -- it's your disingenuity and manipulation.

No apologies will be forthcoming.

Since I haven't been here much for nearly past wk., it does feel very surreal to read the last few posts...

While Hawaii on the surface, is certainly more harmoniously "interracial", it's probably taken several generations for this to be achieved.

And even now, I noticed as just a visitor of a movement to reclaim Hawaiian identity, land, etc.

it feels sureal for me to orchid and i have been heer, I am wonderring how we got to this!, thats just retoric by the way but i still wonderring and it dose't feel like a solution to me. Perhapps its better weer we go from heer than how did we get heer.

I hope something can be done and some bridges built between whomever and who ever needs them bult.

i am having a sit in, a protest one, a big sighne, not sure what it would read/say but a big sighn anyway.

i am sure stuff's being done in the back ground hopefullie with all people thats needin it. As their some seriouse hurt going on heer hence the attitudes.

WELCOME BACK ORCHID

i hope your holiday was good and i am wonderring weer we can heer about your cyclkling in hawaii as its just something id gess you do and i would like to hear more about whats happening to reclame hawien identitie. Sonmetimes we spot other things becouse we are outside looking in at other times its better to be an insider explaining the circumstanses.

are you goinna do a seperite post if for information and descusion on this Orchid if so weer are you gonna post?

Thers some hawieen ladies heer and it may be nice if they could participate and give their oppinion too.

Okay, as founder of the site, I have a few things to share.

I've gone back and read through seek's posts. I believe she was treated unfairly, especially in the current event and political forums. I'd like to remind everyone that's been unfair to her that in addition to those forums, she has posted about her three children, grandchildren, feeding the homeless, super mothers, beauty and aging, 50 being the new 40, a prayer request for her daughter, holiday hangovers, teaching gratitude, and so much more. I don't know why she gets mistreated just because her voice is different in the current events and political forums (both of which are my least favorite and I don't always keep up with), my mistake. I'm considering deleting both because they continually cause unrest at BWS.

While dancer has posted rules for what you must do to stay, please know that I am the one who bands people here, not dancer.

I'm sorry chatty is leaving. Please know that we are corresponding about this and I certainly hope she changes her mind.

While it's a royal pain in the neck to get PMs, I have said over and over again, to PM me if you have a problem. That remains the same.

Now I hope you will carry on. Enough.

dotsie: thank you for your support. i am very conflicted. personally, on the one hand, i am seeking a place just like this - a place where women can connect and talk about the things that are important to us.

i continue to post on this particular thread, because i introduced myself like a bull-in-a-china shop because that is my actual personality style(!) and i was not sure this board would be a good fit for me and i just wanted to put that out there and see what the feedback might be, since my views tend to be "non-traditional."

since the incident on the middle east thread, i was trying to figure out if there would be any way for me to stay - i really wanted to. with my political leanings, i couldn't figure out how to be true to myself and stay. i am very interested in sociology, group dynamics, psychology, women's issues, etc. i seem to always question underlying dynamics and tend to root for the underdog.

because i have a kind of strong personality and have studied psychology, i am aware that my personality type or style is not that usual. i notice that there are many people on the board, as in life, who are far less confrontational than me and who may be uncomfortable with my style.

i appreciate you, dotsie, tolerating my views, because of what you have written here about not much liking debate and politics.

and the board is supposed to be "sharing from the heart," and some of us are more head types, so there might be a little challenge there for some people like myself.

however, the board is such a support and so wonderful for so many people . . . i do not wish to be the person who drove others away (not sure why chatty felt she wanted to leave, but that may be a different issue).

in the past few days i wanted to start other threads, but hadn't figured out if i would even be able to stay. i allowed myself to be hopeful though. then meridith's post came and i felt like it would be impossible since the hostility was so intense.

so again, here i am. i want to stay, but now i know for sure that there are people that do not want me here. on one hand, that hurts, and on the other hand, i recognize that this board has been a haven for people and i "should" just leave - that that would solve the problem for now.

i also have a belief that maybe there can be room for everyone if people can be tolerant and recognize that there are different personality styles, beliefs, etc.

i believe in social justice.

i also sense that i am causing a problem for you, dotsie, and i sincerely respect all you seem to have done (i only know a portion of it). i admire your open attitude and your tolerance for someone like me, who is obviously so unlike you in temperment and beliefs. i just think that if i can keep you in mind as a person who has more traditional beliefs AND is tolerant - that is such a role model.

but on the other hand, as i said before, i am idealistic. so i will wait and see.

thank you again and apologies for putting you in the position to have to deal with this . . . hopeful that something good might come out of it in terms of tolerance maybe?

and if my leaving is for the greater good, i will go. don't want to, but i will.

I want you to stay.

We are continually growing and evolving here; it has been painful and downright unpleasant at times over the year, grappling with all the different ideologies, opinions, styles of communication, sensitivities and still somehow maintaining not only basic civility but the level of caring, connectedness and support that we ALL want to offer to ALL women who come here. Many of us believe that nobody stumbles in here accidentally, and that everyone brings a unique voice, wisdom and perspective. For the most part, I think we are welcoming, open, fairly tolerant, but there are just some topics that generate more hostility and pain than others, and for some reason those seem to be the kind of topics that many newcomers lately have gravitated to.

We're trying to be open, we're trying to know how to be the caring supportive community we have been and want to continue to be - while still opening the doors and windows to new thoughts, new approaches and new styles of heated discussions.

We're not perfect, and we're not ever going to be able to be all things for all women...we can't possibly be everything everyone wants us to be. But I think we ALL want this place to be relatively safe for ALL women; but whether that means keeping the controversial tones and styles to a few specific forums or not, I don't know; we're still grappling with how to best be all that we want to be.

As far as I'm concerned, staying and helping us grapple with our growing pains and evolving WITH us is always welcome. I can't speak for everyone. But I know that the basic premise of this place is that it be a safe place for ALL voices to be heard. You're part of that "ALL".

I tend to disagree with you seek.

the hostilitie towards you is not all that intense one post, one person is not enough for that and i don't see her (mb) as being hostile to you in context of this thread. just as i see it.

perhapps and this is a suggestion, that we move this chatt to another place, as this is the welcome mat for newcommers, and perhapps the first thing they read when they get heer. Id turn and walk away if i found this.

why not start a new post someweer else about this
or
just joine in chatting as anyother member would after a disagreement between two mebers. Perhapps if you have doubts or consernes around your "saftie" pm to dostsie.

as for being too strong a personalitie for some of the other sensitive mebers, then monitor what response your getting and ask yourself if its to do with the subject matter: Should it NOT be discussed as for good reason, their is stuff best not talked about.
Also ask yourself is it your personalitie style thats hurting or offending people, since you admite you have a strong unusule style, then the more sensitive members won't be hurt either.

you get the best of both worlds and get to descuss your hard topics. get to meet good women, get to work through any personalitie style thats offending (when not subject matter)and hopefullie learn some and teach some.

good luck chosing.
no one will be gunning for you you misjudged this place.

and once again i writting this for the people just in through the door not to hush you up.

Seek, as I wrote before, I want you to stay.
And I want our dear friend Chatty to stay.

So everyone, come out of your corners and shake hands. As Chatty would say, … " let's all put our big girl panties on."

Everyone has their history and own life's book they carry with them. Each one speaks from her personal experiences, and therefore of course has her own individual perspective.

Of course, Dotsie, I can understand if you want to close the political forums, but as Eagle said…"we are continually growing and evolving here." Gee, too much of my own souls blood is in this place. We will all do our part to make it a "better" place… ( thank you Michael Jackson.)

Hey, I feel new here anyway. I got my hair cut big time, but really modern,…with slanted bangs, and pointy ends all over my head. ..Hubby asked me if the hairdresser's chair was an electric one. …
What does he know?!

Eweiss, you crack me up. An electric chair? Oh how I love his personality and wit. Too funny. I bet you look adorable. Seriously. You have that kind of smile that could wear any "do" you wanted to.

Ladies, while all of the responses past Dotsie's are certainly from the heart, well said, and I believe will help settle differences, let's not forget the message that Dotsie is sending to ALL.

IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM...............SEND DOTSIE AN EMAIL. If you can't get a response, (she runs a biz, you know?), then email ME. LET US HANDLE IT.

Please don't forget this forum is free for your use AND you are in Dotsie's house.

Now let's have some fun, shall we?

i think it is a good idea to move whatever else needs to be said on this issue to another thread.

celtic: of course you are entitled to your opinion, but instead of asking someone to change their personality style, to me it makes more sense to just "agree to disagree," with the goal to be tolerant of diversity, including diversity of personality styles. also, i can understand if you disagree as to my perceptions of hostility, but MY perceptions are still valid to me. if the issue has to do with loyalties, i can understand that. i am new here, i don't expect loyalty and at the same time i can understand that others would expect that and that others would want to give that, where they see a need.

i hope there can be room on this forum for all kinds of people with all kinds of personalty styles, opinions, beliefs, etc.

my personal take on this is that it mirrors the problem i was talking about - having to choose sides in a matter - casting one side as "good" and one side as "bad." my belief is that we all have plenty of each in personal and political matters. for me, the work is accepting what is unacceptable and bringing the unacceptable to consciousness where it can be worked with.

Since I have been singled out to be chastised by name, I, too, will not be posting.I've no idea what made this happen but it is wrong, I think. Many have posted to Seek, some much more inflamed than my few posts. I can't imagine why I should be chosen to be mentioned.

Dancer9

This is all very very strange. Something isn't quite right and I'm not exactly sure what it is. I've been trying to figure out how to make sense of it all. Here's what I've arrived at:

Even though there are many members of this forum who don't like politics, this "seek" incident is extremely political and needs to be recognized as such. Positions are being taken and members are being singled out and faulted, like chatty and dancer. But I think chatty and dancer are expressing their frustration resulting form particular attempts at communication that didn't quite succeed. I also sincerely think that chatty and dancer are two of the most sensitive and insightful women on BWS. I'm sure that the experiences they've had in the 3D world are informing the understandings that they bring to BWS.

There are many of us on here who see ourselves as "non-traditional" though we don't push the issue. seek, you see yourself as being singled out for being different and having different views. But as some have said on here, seek, it's not that your views are as different as you think and say they are, but how you go about presenting them. I'm still scratching my head about what is so different about your views, because I frankly don't see all that much. Maybe where you live, you're different. But not in my world.

Dotsie, this is your web site, and it's a very valuable one. It has done much good for a lot of people. And you do your best to keep it peaceful. Dotsie, what I think you never realized when you started this is that you have actually spawned a community -- your own real live "Sim City" with real people interacting in it, and creating traditions and norms and protocols and friendships, along with the verbal support.

I would submit that sometimes the women on here need to work things out and uncomfortable things need to be said, just like in families. I think in most families, there are those "difficult" conversations ("we think you drink too much", "whatever you do, we'll still love you, but..." kinds of converstions).

To make an analogy, if you tried to solve a problem between your own kids that cut short their reaching some kind of understanding, you would not be helping further their relationship. They have their own histories. You would only be delaying some important communicating that needs to be said in order to move forward. If you're from a family that sweeps things under the rug for the sake of peace, you don't really understand those families where everything gets aired for the sake of authentic relationships. Both types of families (and communities) can learn from each other. A community that's trying to be diverse will allow some room for this to happen.

Chatty and Dancer, I really hope you don't leave. That would be a terrible blow to this site. Dotsie, I respect that you can do what you think you must, but I also hope you don't shut down the political thread. This is an international group now and there's so much that can be learned on there. seek, I hope you don't feel like you need to cut and run, but that you can find a way to learn from and listen to others on this site as well.

I asked someone (you )to change their personalitie style....no i din't ....put that in contect and what do you get a -whole-diffrent-meaning...i did NOT ask you to change your pesonalitie style, per say it was when hurting sensitive women, perhapps the common donominater is the "one" Sometimes not but sometimes so.......said in context i said if many women are offende.

No infact heer IS THE QHOLE QUOTE. AS FOLLOWS:
Also ask yourself is it your personalitie style thats hurting or offending people, since you admite you have a strong unusule style, then the more sensitive members won't be hurt either.
SAYS QUITRE A DIFFRENT THING WHEN SEEN AS A WHOLE QUOTE.
THE REST OF THE PARAGRAPH:
you get the best of both worlds and get to descuss your hard topics. get to meet good women, get to work through any personalitie style thats offending (when not subject matter)and hopefullie learn some and teach some.

ples note the term THAT IS OFFENDING (self-judgement call). not i asking you to change it. allthough if you were picking on the women i would aske you to stop as i did so on the racisum thread! rember!
my observasion is something of what you just did above! you pick on single sentanse out of a whole post USE that to reprisent the whole other women. Arguee with her on that one point WHILE all the time beliving as if that women used that term to you...and trying to convinse the rest of us you did when they never used that term or infrinse in the first place. meanwhile ignoring whatever else was of value said to you or the descusion or to you as a person. resulting in hurt offended and misreprisented women.

In the spirite of self investment and grow as you clame to be, perhapps looking at yourself and your personalitie style in relashion to some of the more sensitive women would't be a bad thing. Considerring you will be interacting with them. Or is it just everyone else you think needs to change and not you? Is that what you are trying to teach us? I agree we all need to learn "stuff" and i will emphasise all you and I.

Hopefullie that clears up some of the confusion between you and I the distanse between what you think i said and what i actulie said

you will find out in time that some personalitie style and statments will not be tolerated...such "as i am gonna get a gun and shoot all blacks becouse they live in arizona and becouse they are black as i want arizona white"! for example that would't be tolirated Quite a few things won't be tolirated in this forum again read the rules, applie them to yourself first and formost. Then think twice about (amount of force) forcing others to change as you have declared previouslie and elsewere before posting to them.

I DO hope you get your justice, if that is what you want lol. I hope you take it as learning as justice goes two ways.

I made clear my views on descussing this her earlier. i DON'T WANT THIS DESCUSION HEER IN THIS FORUM, the welcome forum. You however do, keep me out of it as long as it is heer. that means no more commenting on anything iv said if you do not mind. Even if you do mind do not make comment of it or me in this forum again, I do have that right of choice do i not?

i hope you stay long enough for us all (including you) to work it out, come to some understanding and develop personaly I think you will be surprised with what you learn.

So much to say and so little time right now. I have to be out the door in 30 minutes and have mcuh to do before I go.

It seems to me that women are working things out here. I deleted a post because I thought calling someone a bad apple wasn't fair. I also singled out dancer in a post because my interpretation of her post was that she was setting the perimeters for the forums, and I'm the one who does that. While it's great that everyone takes ownership because we are all part of the community, I am the one who makes the final decisions. That's all there is to it. If women don't like my final decisions, I can't help that. There are too many women to try to please, and at the end of the day, I have to answer to myself... was I true to myself, and my answer remains yes.

before movibng onto the other new members wating to be welcomed again and given the attension someone in the door deserves.

i agaIN just want you dancer to not run from this, stay and see it out.
I do't want you to leave either, in fact none of the women saying they will, should go. (thats not just loyaltie either seek but it dose play a small part in things) you alreadie have a place heer on the boards and in peoples hart, this will fissle out in a fe weeks if it takes that long, stay ad watch the fizzling.

have strenth to stay and see what the "strange thing" DJ describes manifiest itself as.

the people reading and not posting due to fear plz steap forwared if you can and post, weer ever you want and again feel safe, plzs don't leave it to us noise few. lol.

I'm getting a cold so the noise you hear is sneezing...

Celtic and DJ have both rationally observed and eloquently stated what needed to be said.

Meredith...get better gal! How on earth did you get a cold where you live? You should be here, it's 8 degrees! And I'm in the South for Pete's sake!

Jawjaw, it isn't full-blown (get it? get it?) yet, but I'm taking Chinese herbs to hopefully avoid that. Dinner with GF's tonight so maybe I'll bring along some good old-fashioned Western-med cold pills, just in case.

It was freaking 90 degrees here a few days ago, "only" 80s today. I had to shave my legs so I could wear shorts (grumble, grumble...)

Welcome to perpetual-summer SoCali, aka "Hell with Palm Trees."