Well, I've read through this thread sometimes holding my breath. These experiences are so intense. Pardon me if I have to go back and reply to each post, because I don't have a blanket answer that suits all. I'll start with CF #173292. Some I have to answer by relating with personal experiences, yet shared experiences nonetheless, because some dynamics of abuse are universal. Doesn't matter the economics of a family, or education, or perception in the community... abuse, including incest, crosses all socio-economic stations, and all generation. One thing that may make a difference to future generations is that we our more able to talk, then when it was "hush hush." I said more able, better able, but people suffer in silence and shame. As for tattoos, the sex-offender registries help a little, but the S.O. are usually transitory. CF, there are more books written for children than ever before. My favorite is titled "Those Are My Private Parts" by diane hanson. It is written specifically for children such as Ls age, and the drawings are done by her 6 year old daughter. As for a parent's perspective, yes, there are. I'll get back to you on the titles. As for mothers knowing, first know that mothers can abuse too, and women are registered sex offenders too. Your observations are right on: abusers are so manipulative (consider it's a male) that mothers are manipulated too. How did my mother NOT know that my brother, her son, was molesting me? Because he was also an A student, an alter boy, and said "yes mam and no sir." It is true that often the anger towards the non-offending parent is greater than the anger at the offender. How could my mom not know that my father was molesting me when my mother's father molested her? This area is so complex. When my grandmother, in her 80s, learned about my father, she said, "I knew it, but I was too ashamed to say anything." (her use of the word ashamed is more like embarrassed.) In her 90s she learned that my brother, her beloved grandson, had molested me, and she had lots to say, but it started with, "How could he? I was watching you two all the time!" You want a parents' perspective? I did not have children, I knew in my teens that if I could not be protected, then I would not be able to protect a child. While my brother, the molester of me and 2 cousins that I know of, went on to have a family. See how generations are involved? I think that caring moms who miss the signs sometimes have a sense of self-blame. Other moms blame the child!

Jabber, thanks for listening to the teleseminar. I never often thought of the experience of being the babysitter, and the male of the household abuses the sitter. Wow, who could see that coming? I am so mad that was done to you. An example of power and control out of control, and, total perversion. I see you used the term bibliotherapy. Following is a list of books that I found helpful. This current generation uses the internet for their first source of information, I used books. Yes, reading and writing helps. "BIBLIOTHERAPY" A form of supportive psychotherapy in which carefully selected reading materials are used to assist a subject in solving personal problems or for other therapeutic purposes. (American Heritage Dictionary on-line)

Recommended Reading: http://www.beyondthetears.com/resources.html

Hi CF, You asked "Ise't this a station on a very long rail journay or do you mean its as good as it gets for that person?" I would say both. I think healing is an on-going journey. AND for some people, getting out of bed is as good as it gets for that person at that time in her life. You wrote: "why ise't total recovery possible for all people?" I don't know what total recovery is. I don't know what it looks like. Does it mean that nightmares are less frequent, triggers are less often, does it mean healthy relationships, a positive work environment, healthy in mind body spirit, creative? I just don't know. We mentioned Joyce Meyer here. Now I recall who she is. Would we perceive her as totally healed, able to experience passion and bliss? How do we know what (if anything) she suffers in life. I think a healing journey is possible, that's what I preach, but the destination may be different for each individual. The journey itself can be full of healthy relationships, passion, purpose, promise, potential, healthy heart, mind, body. That's possible. Let's take cancer for example. I have multiple scars to my breasts and chests. I got treatment. But I am never cured, there is always a chance of remission or metastatis. Sure, like abuse, I don't dwell on it, but the scars are there. Yes, I understand what you say by whatever total functioning is. I don't know what total healing means to another because I don't know what fears they may be hiding, what potential is not reached. For myself? I move forward, step by step. When I look back, I can see how far I have come. Some are healing just by sharing their messages here! That's a big step.

CF, you said "either extreme." That's true, healing is on a continuum, like a slider, backward to one extreme, forward to another. Dee, I was like you, not know what it was, until many years later. On the brighter side, I learned that what healing we have experienced can not be reduced. Healing is cumulative. Sure, we can have triggers and set backs, but the healthy parts of us rise to meet the challenge. When you know that you've been triggered, you are healing. For example, I can be triggered by discovery of a lie. I know that this lie in the here and now is not a lie that is going to lead to DV or SA. So, that's healing. When an individual is questioning those crazy Christmas dynamics, that is healing. That person knows enough to question for herself, make decisions on her own, and make changes for the better. That is healing. So, yes, there can be a mid point on the continuum. Our spirits long to be whole and complete.

Chatty, it's always so sad that not only does the abuse occur, but also a mother can not believe. 1) does she not want to deal with her own abuse and/or witness to abuse 2) does she not want to deal with the pain of having her child hurt in such a way? 3) does a parent not know that not believing her child is more pain to the child? You know, both my mother, grandmother, and stepmother knew about my father and brother, and they believed, yet each one told me at different times and when I was alone with each one, to never speak of it again. It took me until I was 43 to speak about it. Maya Angelou was mute for 6 years. Wow. the damage. Yet we try to keep on going.

Orchid, it sounds to me that your mother's instinct during that derma visit served you well as a healthy demonstration to trust your instinct. As you did with your partner's step-father. I'm glad your partner had the wherewithal to not take chances! OK, I know I had a lot to say here, so I hope I did not scare anyone away. My intention, as always, is to help heal the wounded, and shed light to those in darkness, and bring information and awareness. L, PL

Warning: I knew two (2) fathers who abused their babysitter! I was a victim and I went to college with a victim. Both men were professional, pillars of the community. The dad on 7th Heaven, starred in a TV movie called, "Seduction of a Babysitter," or something like that. What happened in that movie, mirrored what happened to me, except in my situation it was to a greater extent. And my boss got away with it. The TV dad was arrested. Watch your children and your elders. I can't say that enough!

I'll watch the video tonight. I've been to afraid to watch it.

What hurts is that these men are pillars of their communities and churches. I feel like writing them a typed letter w/out signature nor names. I'd close with "God loves you, yet your victims bear your burden."

I know. That's another thing, which is hard to wrap the brain around. God loves everybody; yet not everybody is in a loveable
mode. How do you love the men who ruined your life? How do you
love the people who are in the process of ruining your best
friend's life? I'm a human being. I'm not Divinity! I pray a lot. And I try! But I'm afraid that's a mountain I may always
climb!

Jabber, you're not obligated to love anyone. Just don't be consumed by hatred, that's all.