I wanted to continue what's going on in this forum instead of where it started in the Marriage forum, under MIL not respecting our wishes.

Larry told his sister she could not come to our home due to her drug use. I found out today that she called and left a nasty message on his cell phone. Larry's mom told him the night he told her she could not come over that she pitched a crying fit for 3 hours and his mom thought she would have to take her to the hospital. Larry's mom said she thought Robin calmed down and then she went off the deep end again.
Robin has always been able to do what she wants and she can't with this and she's really angry. I think it may be one of the first times in her life that she's not getting her way.
Larry's doing okay but I know if he sees her while visiting her Mother that she's going to go into some dramatic crap and cause a scene.
Robin's mental state, coupled with her drug use, trippled with her unwillingness to stay on any of her medication is one big recipe for a nasty situation. Personally, I think Robin may be unstable enough to hurt someone over this...and that worries me.
This is tearing Larry apart but all Robin wants to see is how it's affecting her. Ya'll pray for us, okay?

Dee, do you feel like she may do something to you? What does Larry think? I will pray for you. And maybe you should get an alarm system installed for your house.

Dee, prayers added.

Dee
your concerns...can you say what makes you think there is a danger?
just let the words flow..


Anyone who cries for that length of time should see a doctor.Even if she is acting part of the time and inciting herself to be hysterical.
Mountain ash

Prayers coming at ya from here, too. Robin sounds like a miserable person who wants everyone around her to be as miserable as she is.

My prayers are there for all of you, too.

Is it possible to have her committed for a bit, to get her back on drugs and dry her out? I know, impossible to do unless she wants, but I thought I would ask.

Larry and I are on our way out but I promise to answer back on this this evening...my heart is heavy from all this but I'm not going to let this drag me down...we do have an alarm system and I keep it on. Thanks for asking, friends. Love you guys.

Edelweiss, Merideth, Crosstitch, Anne 327 and Anno...thanks for your kind words of support and interest. It's greatly appreciated.

Yes, my house is alarmed...and it's always on.

Second, My MIL went with me and Larry 3 years ago to a drug counselor hoping we could help mom see how she's enabling Robin in her behavior and use. It didn't make a dent at all. None...Zero...Natha...I mean she really could care less...as Mom gets older the more defensive she becomes in protecting Robin...why? Haven't a clue except Robin blames all her problems, all her drug use, all her failures, all her misory's on her mom and tells her that all the time...ALL the time. Mom had Robin put in a mental place for 3 months when Robin hit rock bottom 2 years ago...did it do any good? No...Robin called her and told her how awful it was until eventually mom signed her out and swore she'd never put Robin there again. Robin knows all the has to do is cry enough and her mom will rescue her no matter what.
Is Robin capable of violence? Most definitely. Mom's confided in her oldest daughter that Robin has hit her and left bruises...but will Mom press charges? No.
The reason I am leary of Robin is her schitzophrenic behavior on top of her drug use...all one has to do is pick up the papers and read where this type of personality mixed with drugs snapped and hurt or killed people. It concerns me, yes, because it's hard to preduct what and when a person like this will go over the edge. Robin ranted for 3 hours after Larry told her she could not come into our home as a drug user...who rants for 3 hours almost the point of going to the hospital? Someone who can't control their emotions and behavior...THAT concerns me. And of course, Larry says she blames me first and foremost.
Anne...we will continue to protect our home and there's no way we're backing down on this. Larry, as I knew he would, sees the reality of all this...it's hard when it's a family member so messed up and out of control. As long as he and I stand by each other and protect our home we'll be fine.

Hi Dee! I'm sorry for this horrid mess that your SIL has created for your family. I have some experience in this sort of behavior, and I'm getting more as I took a position in the hospital.

You have done all that is humanly possible in this case except one thing:
Your husband must call the police as well as adult protection should her mother be hurt by her one bit.
To continuely have her arrested is the point to which her life has dropped.
It's hard to call the police and insist of pressing charges when it comes to family, but it must be done. Laws now do not require your MIL to press charges, the police have that authority now.
Were I you, and it's only my idea, I would hope that she did get arrested and more than once so the judge finally puts the law in charge of her rehab.
Some people do not listen to anything in rehab unless the police take over:\
Paris Hilton,
Robert Downey Jr.

She belongs off the street, out of society and paying for her damages. I know that what she has is a disease but to make a person take their med's often requires a court order and consequences if they fail.

What do you think? Would your husband have her arrested if he found that she had struck your mother? It would be the best all around. If she comes to your home and causes a distubance, I would vow to call the police in that case as well.

Dancer9, seeing addicts in action in my career.

(I've had to have my mother arrested three times to get her medicated (she threatened her life,) and she has had to be court ordered still to take care of simple health problems. She is schizophrenic.)

Dancer...wow..sounds like you've had lots of things to deal with in your lifetime. I feel for your situation.

We talked months ago to the police...unless his mom presses charges there's nothing they can do. Robin's sister is retired from the court system and if anyone knows how to look at this and try to find a solution it's she...however, her hands are tied as long as mom protects Robin. I've personally spoken with protective service for seniors...and unless Mom steps up, their hands are tied. It's pathetic, but that's how it is.

Dee, that's so sad! I'm sorry that you must deal with this all because one induvidual cannot take thier medication and take responsibility for their actions! How unfair to you, your husband and your MIL!

There is no way your MIL will ever press charges? Will the Adult protection people step in ANY time, under ANY circumstances?

Again, you are not deserving of such a burden and I will keep you in my thoughts to be sure.

Please keep us updated as to how you are, ok?

Many warm regards,
D9

Dancer...thank you for your concern and your words of support. No, unfortunately, my MIL will not press charges probably unless she's really hurt by Robin. The Adult protective services won't step in unless she's willing to say something, which she isn't.
We can complain to them all day long but without her confirming anything is happening, it's our word against MIL's and Robin's. If it was MY Mother I would do things entirely differently, you know? Or at least try.
Keep praying for this family...it's so much appreciated.

Warm regards back at you, Dancer

Dee, as long as her mom is around, she will continue to live this life. Unfortuantely, one day Mom will be gone and then whose responsibility is she? Frightening thought... I'm sure her mom is just showing love to her daughter - in her mind.

Yes, it is a frightening thought...but, the family members who are NOT enablers say that Robin will be where she should be now...in a place where she cannot manipulate, hurt, use drugs and will be required to take her medicine for her mental illness.
Seeing what this family has to go through, it makes me even more grateful that my own children are normal, healthy, drug/alcohol free, productive men. My heart does ache for the pain this family goes through...I'm not cold hearted. But, I'm also not afraid to take a stand to protect my home and husband, either. It's the right thing to do.
And yes, Dotsie, I'm sure my MIL is doing all this out of love...and despite everything that her daughter has done, she's doing it to protect her...I guess she sees it as if Robin is using drugs in her house then it's better than her being on a street corner or in an ally somewhere...I mean she gives her money knowing what she's going to do with it. She thinks she's helping her...
I just don't understand it...

Good grief Dee, this mother and daugthter are both in need of a serious INTERVENTION.

You have no idea what goes on between my MIL and Robin...it's really bad. The counselor tried telling my MIL that she's helping to kill her daughter by enabling her...didn't make a dent in MIL's mind...she's worse about protecting Robin than ever before. Intervention wouldn't work...I truly believe that my MIL would walk away from her normal kids first to protect Robin versus the other way around.

Dee, I read this with a heavy heart. I understand what's going on. I lived it to an extent with my ex. Your SIL is really taking advantage of your MIL and your MIL thinks she's "helping." It's called co-dependency. I've seen it, I've lived it, it's such a sick cycle. My ex hooked up with a woman who fed this cycle, it's why I set such strong boundaries with him and really have nothing to do with him now. It's truly something that can't be really "understood." Just not a normal, healthy, parent-adult child relationship there.

What helped me was to read a lot of Melanie Beatty's, Pia Mellody's and Patrick Carne's books.

My dad was an alcoholic. My mom had an intervention with him many many years ago (back in the 80s...maybe 3 or 4 years before he died). It worked to some extent, in that my dad was very much a "family" person and did acknowledge he drank too much, he went through the program fairly successfully, but not early enough. He ended up dying of a stroke a few years later due to all of the havoc the alcohol did to his body. But some addicts are so overpowered by the drug/behavior of their choice and are so conniving they will do anything to maintain that life. Sad sad sad.

It's so hard on loved ones. You really are doing the right thing. Larry must be heartbroken. Has he talked or is willing to talk to anyone about this--like a counselor? Just to reassure him that he is doing the best thing he can?

I wish I had words of wisdom, but have none. All I can do is send some virtual hugs. Stuff like this sucks.

Key...I'm sorry to hear that you also went through a situation like this...unless you go through it, it's really hard to understand. You sound like a really strong woman and find out as much as one can about things that are causing problems is a good way to start understanding them and changing things within yourself.

Larry's mom called me tonight...I have purposely stayed away waiting for her to make the first move to me...she knew why I backed away and apologized. We then had a heart-to-heart discussion about Robin and the consequences of the bed Robin's made for herself. It amazed me about how no matter what I said she eventually went back to defending Robin. I reminded her of Robin's theft, lying, unsavory friends and the drug use and that the line is drawn at our driveway and she needs to respect that. She said she realized that and apologized. I tried to talk to her about the control Robin has over her but like always she just doesn't see it the way everyone else sees it. I truly believe that she's beyond help as much as Robin is beyond help.
Larry is heartbroken but he realizes he lost his sister years ago to the drugs and his parent's unwillingness to be parents when they needed to be towards her.
Key...you have given words of wisdom...as have all the ladies who've responded on this forum...it's sad that anyone has to deal with these types of situations in their own families.
Thanks for the hugs...I feel them all the way from Ohio...and yes stuff like this sucks but what makes it all better are friends like you and BWS. I'd be so lost without all of you.

Dee, although late to this post, my prayers are with you and family, too.

It's difficult to create boundaries when another enables and perpetuates the destructive behavior. I've family members like that and have difficulty w/ boundaries b/c the heart interferes. Recently, I've had to let me nephew go, no more birthday gifts, Christmas, etc. None. (I know my mother will attempt to interfere, but no). Why? He lies, steals, drugs, constant job change over, went through and has nothing to show for his $20K trust fund w/in 90 days, wrecks cars, steals cars, foul language, disrespectful, disappeared for weeks at a time, damaged personal property, made threats, etc. He's only 20 and his mother (my sister, is a horrible parent - which is why only one of her four children live with her). Although not entirely, I do understand your situation. I say no more. I'm cashing in the savings bonds I purchased for him and sharing with my parents (his grandparents of whom he stole money). He's not earned it.

You may need to do the same. Say no. Don't spend a dime nor a thought on her. Don't invite her to your residence. Should you attend a family function where she is a guest, don't acknowledge her. Your MIL has enabled her, it is entirely her problem. Allow th entire burden on her, mayhap she'll 'learn' her mistake?

Being strong last week has allowed your MIL to think and as you keep repeating your bounderies...the dripping tap again.
Simbiotic behaviour as this is gives both parties payoff. But you are being authentic stating your rules.I know its hurting but time will help you and Larry...
Love
Mountain ash

Mustang Gal...It's called tough love...Love being the main word...tough being the hardest. I know how difficult it is for you to make these changes and I'm proud of you for having the strength to do the right thing. He's 20 and hopefully he'll turn his life around. Let's pray he does. Keep us posted on how this develops. He's young and still has a chance...Robin is midway to 50 and is so cocky and set in her ways that we doubt there's any chance of her changing.

Robin was invited by me only once to our home...that was 4 years ago and before I learned how messed up she is...the other times have been because my MIL brought her.

My MIL told me the reason she brought Robin was because if her car broke down she'd need Robin there. (pretty lame since there's nothing wrong with her car, she drives all over creation without having Robin with her and she lives within 15 minutes of us and her other daughter who could aid her if she broke down...it was just an excuse). I spoke with her as gently as I could but when she tried to cloud the issues with excuses I led her back to reality...she even said she forgot about Robin stealing from us and that she really didn't believe Robin would steal from us in our own home. (denial? out of touch with reality?) I told her we were not going to take that chance. Then I reminded mom that a year ago she emphatically stated that none of Robin's drug friends would ever be in her home...just last week this sleeze bag that Robin hangs out with sat down at my MIL's table and ate with them. My MIL denied that happening until I reminded her that she is the one who told me...she grew very quiet because she'd been caught by her own words. Then the excuses started flowing...there's always excuses.
I told her how much this has hurt Larry and instead of talking about Larry's feelings, she said...well, Robin cried for 3 hours. I was dumbfounded for a moment...it's always about Robin...didn't she just hear me say her son was hurting? Guess not.
She's a woman who is living with the consequences of not disciplining her daughter when it was important...now she's saddled with Robin probably for the rest of her life which takes away time with her other children who would like to spend time with her but don't as much because of Robin. It's a sad situation all around.

Mountain Ash...I wondered last night if my MIL was thinking about anything I said to her...if any of it got through where it counts...who knows? Her need to take care of Robin will probably outweigh anything the rest of the family tries to show her. It always has.

All Larry and I can do now is to continue living our lives the way we were doing before this hit the fan...it's finally out in the open and there's no question where we stand on this issue so we're moving forward and hope that our lives return to normal.

thanks again for everyone's support.

Dee,
I totally support what you are doing, and your view of what is going on with your sister in law.
I think we need to remember, although we cannot fix it, that she has a DISEASE. Possibly a mental health disease and an addiction disease.
We cannot "hate," those who are ill, but there are some illnesses where one must help themselves.
When I give my last statement
some thought, I realize that
MOST diseases require one
participating in their
recovery.
This/These disease(s) that your
family member has is insidious.
Hang in, strong and in the
right.

Dancer9

Dancer9....I hope I haven't given the impression that I hate anyone...I don't. What I hate is seeing what drugs has done to this family. Thanks for your thoughts and wishes, Dancer9. Larry and I will continue supporting each other and our prayers will continue for his sister and mom. Thanks, honey.

Dee, chiming in late because I was so busy for a few weeks. I am so sorry
for all that you are going through. I'll be praying!

Dee, I've been following this thread and all I have to offer is this. Hang tight and Hold strong. Your situation is a bit sticky to say the least. Poor Larry, I feel his stress in all of this too. Some good will come of this I am sure. Mom has to be thinking this through just the same. Sometimes Moms feel so sorry for the underdog that they can't see the forest for the trees. Wishing good days ahead for all.

Dee, I know of two others families that are going through an almost identical situation. One of the families chose "honesty" as their weapon of choice; the other, denial and turn to the other cheek.

I cannot say what I would do, but I will say this, I admire you for using LOVE and HONESTY as your own tools and for caring as much as you do. Sometimes it takes a perspective from the outside to help the "inside" see.

As Chick says, holding you all close, girl...for sure!

Keeping you in my prayers Dee for all you and Larry are going through. Sweetie, I'm sure it's very hard to hang on when it seems no forward motion is happening. But trust that the longer you hang in there realize the end will come and you'll be more blessed because of it.

Diamond, chickadee, JJ (welcome back) and Sandpiper...thanks for your words of support and caring. You don't know how much it means to me to find so much support within these forums.

I think this is harder on Larry than it is me...being his family and all. He's doing pretty well...we're taking this one incident at a time.

JJ...I'm curious how the different approaches to the similiar situations with the families you know is working out? Honesty versus turning the other cheek?

Thanks again you all for reaching back to me via this forum...it gives me hope and strength to keep doing what we're doing. Love you guys.

I can tell you that from years of listening and observing each family, denial is NOT working. They have essentially said, "We will enable you to run all over us, use us up, and deplete everything we own."

I could be sooooo wrong here, so please, NO FAN MAIL on what I'm about to say...but in my limited view (because I don't have experience here) it seems to me that the ones using honesty LOVE the person(s) enough to say NO MORE. Or STOP. Or WE WON'T TOLERATE A,B,C...

I think you have to love them enough to let them fall...but again I say, from what do I know? I haven't been there, or walked a mile in their shoes and all that other stuff. I'm sure there are more qualified contributors here in the forum.

I only know what I have observed...

I had a relative in a similar situation.
The solution was easy: say NO say NO say NO.
Let the police/authorities handle everything. Let the person
go in the slammer for a year, they will come out thanking the
family and the world.

There is nothing to lose, but so much to gain. You just have to
want it that badly for the person.

This relative of mine is now working full-time and going to college
full-time. Previously he was an addict and a dealer of ice/Batu/meth.

He never stops thanking.

Diamond...good for your family in doing the hard stuff...and even more special is how it turned out for the person who turned his life around. That is such a miracle for your entire family.

My MIL will never allow her daughter to sit in jail for one night much less a year. With all due respect, she needs as much help, if not more, than her daughter.