This afternoon, I decided to move Robert's things out of the cardboard boxes they've been packed in and put it all into a trunk to protect them. I go through them alot so it wasn't going to be that big a deal -- until I came across an envelope with his ponytail in it. Rob had long hair when he was younger and had decided to cut it off -- I had saved it and put it in an envelope.

I wasn't prepared for the rush of emotion that went through me as I held it in my hand ----- it felt so ---- alive

I wish I could explain how I feel right now -- how strange it felt to know in my heart he was gone -- yet here I was holding this beautiful rich brown soft hair in my hand ----

It just reminded me just how WRONG this all is !!

I have locks of my hair when I was a baby -- and Travis when he was a baby -- mothers do that -- they save locks of hair -- mothers should open an envelope with their childs hair in it and remember how it smelled, how it felt to brush it -- not drop it on the floor with a gasp of how alive it felt !!!!

I'm sorry if this is an inappropriate post --this just rattled me -- more than anything that's happened since he died i just need to get it "out" before i go to bed

Gee Lion, that must be so hard. You'll be in our thoughts and prayers.
smile

Lion, I'm sure your emotions are off the charts and now wonder

All I can think of is what a blessing to be able to reach out and physically touch him. I'm so glad you have that ponytail.

This is not an inappropriate post. Quite the contrary. It's perfect!

Blessings on you while you reminisce. Keep his spirit alive!

Carolyn,
I too think it was a blessing as well as a gentle reminder from Rob for his Mom saying, "hey Mom, I love you, I'm here." Embrace it.

Love to you gal,

JJ

Carolyn,
I just re read your post. Maybe holding that ponytail in your hands is God's way of letting you know that Rob is still with you and that he is happy in heaven.
smile

Carolyn,

This is not an inappropriate post at all. I too believe that this is Rob's way of sending his love.

Carolyn may God Bless you and your memories. There are no inappropriate posts for this wonderful forum and its the one place where we share and vent whatever is on our minds.

Thanks ladies -- for all your support

I'm much better today

I agree with the others - that was NOT an inappropriate post. It was a perfect post.
If you feel it - share it.
Let the burden of sorrow be shared among friends.

Kate

It's so nice to have this forum to come too -- I've missed all of you wonderful ladies

I couldn't share that with my hubby -- it has taken him sooooo long to come out of the dark that I'm careful not to bring up anything that will take him right back there --

but it was sooooo unlike me to have that kind of reaction -- I just had to get it out of me right away before it ate a hole in my soul !!!!

A part of me always wonders why I never went back outside that night -- I walked outside to the carport one time after all the police and everyone was there - and saw they had covered him up -- and I just turned back and walked in the house -- that wasn't my son laying out there -- I had lost my child a long time ago to the evil of schizophrenic voices -- and that was what was laying out there under that sheet -- evil -- and I was glad it was gone -- what a horrible thing for a mother to feel but all I could feel was relief -- relief that my baby was free of the anquish and fear and torment and I knew that he would never suffer again -- I hadn't been able to protect him -- but now that he had found his way home -- he would never be harmed again

but when I held that ponytail in my hand and felt the softness and LIFE still left in it -- it took me right to the moment I put it in that envelope ---- to him standing in front of me with that sweet grin -- and i felt the loss of my SON -- for that split second it was like someone had hit me in the gut with a baseball bat and it all came back to me -- except this time i WASN'T relieved -- I was devistated -- I wanted to drop to my knees and scream NOOOOOO ---- and I couldn't let it show without taking my hubby down with me

so again -- Thank you ladies for being here and letting me vent

Carolyn I agree with some of the other posts that your finding the ponytail was Rob's way of reminding you that he is still around you and loves you....I'm sure it was a jolt to hold his hair and remember the moment you tucked it away in the envelope originally - but knowing he's in a better place now surely is a comfort.

It's good that you shared this with your friends here - it's what we do - share and care!!

BIG HUG

Lion,
Enjoyed your post about the ponytail. It also made me wonder if maybe you are still grieveing and this helped. I agree with the other posts too that he is still very much with you. This would make a wonderful story.
Maggie

I don't know the complete story but as a mother, I'm so terribly sorry for your grief. I have always believed they are still with us and how wonderful that his mind is now free. That must bring you comfort. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that Robert is still with us -- the latest trick he pulled on us was on June 19th -- at 12:02 am

this is my husband's birthday and we were woke up at 2 min after midnight on the day of his birthday when our stereo -- which has not been on for at least 2 months -- went off on its own. I kept reaching over and turning off the alarm -- until I woke up enough to realize that we don't have a RADIO alarm and I figured out that it was the stereo out in the living room -- Rob just wanted to be the first one to say HAPPY B.D. to his dad

The voices had made Robert shave his head -- so it was just a bit of a shock to see all that gorgeous hair once again.

Dianne -- if you'd like to "know the whole" story -- please go to my website and read "robert's story" -- and some of the poems I've written about him -- I love when people know about him -- he was a special person to know

www.hometown.aol.com/lionspaaw

Dianne I hope you will visit Carolyn's website and read the soul-touching story of Rob as well as the heartfelt poetry.

Oh gosh. How tragic. I'm so sorry. But, like yourself, I believe it was Robert who turned on the stereo. I believe in things like that because the living need them to continue. Thank you for sharing your story.

Lionspaww,

What a beautiful and spiritually comforting story! Seeing and touching hair is such an 'alive' sensation.

So many visual memories come to mind when human hair is touched. Perhaps this is one way God lets us hold on to the memory of one gone; gone to a higher plateau of after-life?

Like the Biblical character Samson, whose strength resided with his long hair, so is our hair, gifted with the same strength. Perhaps it was that 'strength' that you felt touching his hair?

Beautiful story....

Toni - my husband has long blond hair -- to the middle of his back -- it's "him" -- part of who he is -- and I've often told him that he's like Samson -- cut his hair and he'd lose his strength

The other morning, while drying it and putting it in a ponytail for him -- like I've done practically every day for the last 28 yrs -- he commented -- "don't you get tired of fooling with my hair every day" -- and I told him that it gave me comfort -- it was the perfect way for me to start my day. For 10-15 min I could get "lost" in the "us" of it all -- some people have breakfast together -- we share those few minutes

I used to do that for Rob -- before the voices stole that part of him -- I guess now I'll have to settle for a ponytail in an envelope

he'll find a way to let me know that its okay -- he always does

Lionspaww,

I just wanted to say 'thank you' for sharing your story. I don't think that I will ever forget it.

Memorable and haunting.....

You are a very caring and loving person. Your husband is a lucky man and so was your son or I should say, so IS your son. They remain with us, I believe. A beautiful story told by a beautiful woman.

what a sweet thing to say -- thank you

I just wish it was a story that didn't need to be shared --

and I wonder -- is it natural to miss him more NOW than in the beginning ??? cuz I sure do !!!

Lionspaaw, whos to say when we should miss someone more, in the beginning , middle or end of their absence from our lives? As his mom who's heart and mind remembers all the things he was to you in his infancy and early years and later years, their are no memories that are absent. Missing is the only way of loving when someone is gone from the present. So miss him as you will, whenever you will as I'm sure he misses you wherever he is....God Bless you.

Lionspaw,
I agree with Chatty. I think its natural whenever it happens to miss them. On a personal note they say I delayed my grief for my father because I was taking care of my mother so much. I didn't let myself grieve. There have been times I have really missed him even this week while spending time with my aunt his sister. We both missed him. I know yours is different but hope this helps.
Maggie

Lionspaw: I'm not sure that we ever stop missing a loved one. I lost my dad at my age of seven. It's been over 30 yrs... I still miss him!

---- Missing is the only way of loving when someone is gone from the present ----

That's really a nice way of looking at things

I really don't think there is a "difference" when you have lost someone you love. I never have thought that I hurt more than someone else -- cuz everyone's loss is just as hurtful to THEM --

I think I miss him so much because of my insecurity right now -- starting a new life and profession - Rob was always my biggest fan -- he knew exactly what to say to give me the confidence to keep on keeping on -- he was my best friend and now I have to learn to trust myself -- not an easy task !!

but i feel him patting me on the shoulder and saying "its okay mom" "you'll do just fine" "just remember I love you" and it gives me the confidence to walk out my front door

THANK YOU LADIES for all your thoughts -- I truly do appreciate all of you

Funny this post should be brought up again on this particular morning. I too am still in mourning for Daddy, and cried myself to sleep last night. It was one of those days of missing him, yet feeling his presence. He was my own personal cheerleader as well, and my best friend. I still can't believe he is gone. It's surreal.

I will just have to fill up that empty space with new and powerful friendships... Yuhooo...gurlssss...

Ok, were here for you!! I too feel mom cheering me on sometimes with the you can do it, or go ahead when the insecurities set in.
Yes JJ, I remember the gap and still have it so know were here for you.
Maggie

((((( JJ )))))

i'm sorry you had a sad night

since both my parents are still alive, i can't relate to the loss of a parent like you ladies have -- but my hubby's parents passed away back in the early 1980's and he still has sad nights every once and awhile

i find it interesting the different ways we all feel about the same emotion -- loss

theres no comparing the loss of a parent to the loss of a child because one is the emotion felt as the PARENT and one is the emotion felt as the CHILD ---- and i dont think you can put an age limit on the way a child reacts to the loss of a parent

(and yes, i do find great comfort in knowing my child is at peace )

I totally agree with you Carolyn and quite honestly, if I didn't have this safe habor, I think sometimes I would grieve myself to death.

But...life is for the living and we must make them proud of us, eh?

Thanks Maggie, and everyone else. You are all so dear. There just aren't words!

JJ

Lion, here's a quote for you that I think you'll like knowing you have your site for people to communicate about paranoid schizophrenia.

God does not comfort us to make us comfortable, but to make us comforters.
Dr. Jowett

Do you like that?

When I have lost loved ones, it seemed that the loss of the grief was just another loss. And it hurt almost as much as the loss of the loved one.
When I had to give up the grief, the loss was complicated by guilt. It felt as if I was leaving them.
Everthing about losing someone you love is hard and you never stop loving even when the grief ends. You never stop missing anyone you love.
smile

[ July 29, 2004, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

God does not comfort us to make us comfortable, but to make us comforters

Dotsie -- its funny you should post that today -- as I was wondering this morning if God had put me thru all this (loss of a husband and a son) in order to help my husband thru the grief in his life -- his mom/dad/brother/sister/son --

and smilin' - that is my hubby's biggest fear/guilt -- that by allowing grief to take its course he will "forget" robert somehow -- sometimes he feels he has to keep his pain "alive" in order to honor his child --

which brings me back to Dotsie's post of my choosing to use Gods comfort as a comforter for him --

Carolyn, How I wish everyone had something as tangible to grab onto. My friends just lost their 15 year old son to leukemia and the mom asked me if it was "crazy" that she'd lay down on his bed and put her face on his blanket so that she could smell him. I assured her that she wasn't crazy. After 5 years I still go into my parents room, open the closet and try to catch the scent of my father. You are a courageous woman to share you deepest hurts with the rest of us. We've all benefited in some way from your generosity. Hugs and more hugs!!!!Kath

Kathryn --

I think what she's doing is perfectly normal also.

You can give your friend my website and then tell her to email me if she needs to talk if you'd like. Maybe she can relate to some of the poetry and want to share.

My heart goes out to her -------

I have lost my mother and my husband in the past six years and both losses bear heavily on me. I have had to move in with my father because he is battling esophogeal cancer. When we were moving from my home to his, I ran across so much stuff that belonged to my husband and each item brought back a flood of memories. As I am settling things here at this house, making one home from two, I am organizing things that belonged to my husband and my mother. Last night, however, I experienced a new thing...I am already starting to "mourn" my father...who is still here and fighting his disease. Anyway, Mom always bought Dad Paul Sebastian after-shave and she always wore Estee Lauder Youth Dew. Dad wore his after-shave when he was going out somewhere nice, but not all the time. Since he has this darned j-tube amd after his surgery and chemo/radiation therapy, he thinks he has an "odor" all the time and has started to wear the after-shave more. He was out of the house with my uncle for the day on Saturday and I was doing some consolidating of things and had to go into his closet. I was hit with a wave of Paul Sebastian and Estee Lauder in the face... a very pleasant smell, but boy did it hit me in the gut. I grabbed the clothing and inhaled, thinking about how much I miss Mom already and what I will ever do without Dad. I am living here in their house again, just as when I was a child and young woman. I have always been close to them both, but now I am his caregiver and I watching him lose his identity as my strong-willed, independent father. He is becoming ever more dependent, depressed and physically weak. I remembered my mother and how I miss her daily, still trying to call her when things happened to me until I moved here and am faced daily with the fact that she is not in this house any longer physically. I have my husbands' ashes here in a wooden box and I find myself opening it and touching the artifacts that could not be cremated with him (The funeral home placed them in the container with the ashes for us.) and remembering, remembering, remembering. Life is so unfair....I would have never imagined that I would be a widow at 51 and lose my mother even before that, never have children in my lifetime and now am facing losing my father so soon. (I know this is a pity-party post, and I apologize. Yesterday was my 56th birthday and I am just a bit down, but not out, I promise.)

Anyway, I was writing this in response to the post about Rob's hair. One of the things I found while catagorizing what was staying and what was going was a container with Tim's first lock of baby hair, a diaper pin, his hospital bracelet and a Saint Christophers' medal in it. I have put them in the cremation box with the other things and his ashes. Those things are over 50 years old yet still smelled and felt like they were from today. I am amazed at the fact that I had not known they were even ever there. I think my MIL (She died several years before my mother.) sent them to me to make my move and my life a little brighter.

I am not a maudlin person and I do believe in life after this one. I know in my heart Mom and Tim are in that other plane with all the others we have lost, and that they will welcome Dad there when it is his time. It just doesn't make it any easier to bear in my life. I miss them both greatly, and as I said above, am already missing Dad, even though he is still here. What a conundrum.....

Micki

Micki,
I left this post alone all day so that everyone could have the chance to read it AND see that is was posted by you. It was heart wrenching to read, yet so full of love. I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your insight about life, about dying, and mostly about love. You are one brave woman and I am so glad I know you.

Sendng love,

JJ

Micki,
I am sorry for your heartache. And, I am sorry for your father's illness. When my mother's Alzheimers accelerated I grieved the loss of our closeness even though she lived with me. I can identify with your grieving for your father even though he is still alive. Isn't it strange what jolts us? I remember years ago when my brother, Danny, died that the smell of homemade spaghetti sauce made me miss him...he loved to make "sugu" (our family's word for spaghetti sauce). A smell, a thought, a breeze, a visual experience, a touch, grief just comes pouring back in. Yesterday I was cleaning and came across the nightgown my mother was wearing when she passed away. Pulled me up short. I think that I am going to have to pack up everything that reminds me of her until a later time when it won't knock me for a loop as easily as it does now.
God bless you, Micki.

The scent of Old Spice will always remind me of Dad. He wore it every day, even in the hospital.

Micki, I spent the night at my sister's last week and on her dresser was a dish that always sat on Mom and Dad's dresser while we were growing up. It stopped me dead in my tracks. I instantly went back to their bedroom and recalled lifting the lid and seeing her scapula and other little medals on pins inside. I wanted to hear her voice, see her, and touch her again. As usual, I quickly pushed the thoughts out of my mind.

I'm sorry for your heartache. I know you and am well aware of your losses and caring for your dad. You are anything but maudlin. In fact when I think of you I hear your laugh. It's contagious. I also admire your loving, caring ways.

Remember to take some time for yourself. You and your dad remian in my prayers.

Lion,

I will read your story.

My friend lost her son last Summer to cancer. He was 20. On his 21st birthday she aasked him to stop a clock for her so they could connect. His 21st birthday was very important to this MOm.

She checked all the clocks in the house before bed but no luck. She rested and read for awhile getting drowsy. About 10:20pm she remembered the clock in Patrick's room. A little alarm clock, quite insignificant to the grand clocks throughout the house but it was the room where he died.

The next morning, when she awoke for work she checked the clock in Patrick's room and it had stopped at 10:20 pm. There are many stories of Patrick being around and I am sure your Rob is with you. Maybe more now than the days close to his death. You would know best.

Pour your grief and your fears out here. These ladies are strong and support you when you need it the most.

Lynn

Micki,
I too enjoyed your post and purposely didn't reply yesterday. The smell of Old Spice reminds me of my father and I love when my husband wears it.
Yes, grieving the one still living I remember doing this with my mother.
Maggie

I had my grandbeauty last week -- from Thursday evening til Monday evening and when I walked back into my home Tuesday afternoon after work I walked around for about 5 min and then just sat down and started to cry. I was so heartbroken and I wasnt sure why.

Then I realized how much I missed taking care of Robert. He was so like Belle - so innocent and trusting -- looking to me to protect him and help him through the madness of it all. He needed me, unlike my parents or husband or even my other son. And I needed him.

So I called my daughter in law and told her I wanted Belle back -- and she said SORRY -- CANT DO IT !! can you believe that

and now we have a hurricane heading for us -- and because I live in a modular home -- I have to get out. I am so torn about leaving all Rob's stuff here -- the pictures and things he made and drew and just 23 yrs of memories. Since we're going to my parents house -- along with my bird and 2 dogs and hubby's Harley Davidson -- how can I take all these things with me too

and when I started this I had a point sorry --I'm just really tired right now -- and trying not to get too upset about this storm (I went thru a hurricane when I was 7 and it took the roof off our house - needless to say I dont like the wind)

anyway -- I'm not sure anyone can really be maudlin about memories of a loved one -- and i think we all need a pity party every now and then -- it gives us strength to keep on keeping on

Thank you Lynn

Robert does let me know he's still around and usually it's more than enough -- posts like yours remind me of those times when I get a little selfish"

Oh Carolyn! It didn't dawn on me that you were in the path of that Hurricane girl....please report back in when you can and let us all know you are okay!!!! I will be thinking of you and your entire family and praying for your safety.

Rob is there with you too, helping to protect Mom.

Love you gal,

JJ

lion, praying for your safety, and the safety of Rob's belongings.

You're so wise to associate watching your grand-daughter with caring for Rob. For that brief time of caring for her she filled the void all of us have as mother bears. Some children allow us to fill that and others are too independent.

It sure was a treat watching Belle -- she is such a loving child -- if you watched her and her mom and dad your heart would just swell -- they love each other soooo much and it was wonderful to have the chance to be a part of that bond -- if only for a few days

she showed no signs of missing them while they were gone (thank goodness for me not to have to take care of a forelorn child ) but when they walked into the house I thought Belle was going to turn inside out -- she went to mom and then dad and then mom and then dad and then she held on to mom and reached for dad so they had a group hug -- it just filled my heart with peace to see how happy my son was with his family

this is a "no need to answer" post ---

its the 3rd anniversary of Robert's passing and i'm just a little sad

i would rather be home with my hubby but bills have to be paid -- so here i am -- trying not to break down in tears in front of everyone --

so i came here to post -- and then i'll feel better

i sure miss my baby

I know you said "no need" but there is a need. I need you to know you are loved. I need you to know in case you don't check your email that I'm here, I am feeling your loneliness and emptyness and although the best I can do is send good thoughts and cyberlove, I NEED you to know it's being sent. You are a very important friend to me Carolyn. Simply put, you are loved.

JJ

(((((((Consider yourself hugged)))))))

I know it is difficult.
Blessings on you, Dear Carolyn.

Linda

Here's another Hug!! Were here for you!
Sending good thoughts your way! Remember tears are good for us too.
Maggie

You have a lot of friends here my dear friend who understand how difficult it is to deal with the "anniversary" of a tragedy...I pray that you have more than your share of butterflies today ( ) reminding you that Rob's physical presence is gone but his spirit is always by your side.

Carolyn, my heart aches for you and your family as you remember and celebrate Rob's life. If I were you I'd give in to the pain and allow myself an allotted time to grieve openly again. When the time is over, carry on as you have these past few years.

You are an amazingly strong woman with a tremendous spirit. You are loved by many and we're all HOLDING you during this difficult time.

You ladies are the most wonderful people in the world. I don't know what I did to deserve you all but I'm sure glad I found you all

As time goes by, I'm finding myself being even more emotional -- I guess I'm finally starting to accept that he's really not going to walk back through that door. I've probably "leaked" more the last few months than I have in the past 3 yrs.

But I spent time with grandbeauty and her mommy and daddy yesterday and they always restore my strength and soul. And then to log on today and see how many hugs and feel the love -----

I am a lucky woman

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU my special friends

Lion, I believe God gave us loved ones to help in the exact way your grandbeauty does.

Sometimes we need to be restored and sometimes others need to be restored.

Give and recieve depending on the times!

well Dotsie -- I sure "owe" a lot of giving here then

Lion, you must forget all the posting you've done in here. I recall you helping others quite often!

that's a big amen Dotsie...she has. Tons of times...and now it's your turn to be hugged Lionspaaw...

JJ

(((((lionspaaw )))))

ohhhhhhh that feels sooooo good

i wish i could find the words to tell you how ya'll make me feel

my last post about Rob was August 30th

and here i am again -- needing to vent -- sometimes i wish i didn't love the holidays so much -- then i wouldn't dread them so much

and once again i say -- no reply necessary -- i just have no where else to go ---------------

my husband is soooo sad -- his glass is not only half empty -- it's just plain empty right now

i'm usually so patient with him -- but today i lit into him like a raving maniac --- and i realized that i needed to let off a little steam before Christmas comes or it's not going to be pleasant -- my sister is coming for a visit and i know with her personality and raging menopausal hormones and staying with my mom and dad -- it's going to be like walking a tight rope "keeping the peace" -- soooooooooo before all hell breaks loose ---- i need to let this out !!!!!!

'
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I WANT MY SON BACK

can't be more blunt than that

i dont want to be rational
i dont want to put things in perspective
i dont want to "go with the flow"

i want to SCREAM
i want to THROW SOMETHING
i want to HIT SOMEONE

I WANT ROBERT BRUCE BACK ---------------

he was the only one who truly knew me
and loved me anyway

he was the one person i could fall apart around
and not feel guilty

i gave him that friggin disease (it came thru my bloodline) and i can't get past it sometimes

i should have protected him ---- I WAS HIS MOTHER DAMN IT !!!!
'

i should have protected him --------------------
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i should have protected him --------------------
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'

oh Lord -- i needed this cry -----

i'm better now ------ stronger -------

and ready to take on the world again -------

lion, that's beautiful. I don't have many words of comfort to offer. I love you and yearn for your emptiness to fill. I can't blame you for your thoughts and emotions. They're so real.

I can't stand that you're blaming yourself, but I understand. We're mothers. It's what we do.

May God continue to allow you to vent and find comfort in His arms. Remeber, he meets you wherever you are.

I haven't been on the list much lately with all that has been going on in my own life, but I felt the need to comment to lionspaw in her hour of need.

I lost my hubby almost 5 years ago. It NEVER gets "better". It gets tolerable in small increments, and then hits you again like a ton of bricks. Nobody and nothing can "fix" what's wrong, and there will be people thay will tell you to "get over it" and "move on". I know how I ache for my Tim, and he was my husband. I just cannot imagine what it must be like to lose a child. I would not be where I am today if my loss had been of a child, I can tell you that.

Lion, I am here for you if you need to vent. I can't be where you are in body, but my spirit is there with you. I am holding you in my heart in prayer and humble supplication to our Higher Power that He send you peace this Christmas. Remember, Rob is with his Maker and is in a far, far better place. He is waiting for you there, until the day it is your turn to make that journey and take your place next to him.

Be peaceful and feel all of our combined energies encircling you....

Micki

Oh Carolyn,
Where the heck have I been? I never saw this post. I can tell you one thing, I cannot comfort you any better than what Micki has poured out in the post above this one. She has captured what I would want to tell you and I won't even begin to try and add more meaning to those lovely words.

I think you know how much your friendship means to me, and to everyone here. I'm standing firm with Micki in that I'm here if you need me. You are sooo loved! Feel it gal...lean on it! Use us...because we really do care. And if you want to scream, then scream! You can call me at home anytime and just vent, cry, scream, whatever. You've got my number. I love you dearly my friend, JJ

you ladies are sooooooo special --

THANK YOU for your support, comforting words and friendship

I was widowed at the age of 23 -- and I remember people telling me to move on -- as if you can just "shake it off"

and it WAS totally different to lose my child ----but i know in my heart that Robert is free now -- and I see him in the sunrises and everywhere i turn

I needed to vent that night -- and I know that I am safe here -- with women WHO KNOW --

I'm not sure what I would do without all of you

I'm really okay

THANK YOU AGAIN ((((( HUGS )))))

((((((Carolyn)))))
Dana