I hate being around a complainer who, like Dotsie says, complains but doesn't do anything to change what they're complaining about. That gets old and boring.

Oh I feel the same. It actually is exhausting to try to be with such a person. You know they're all hot air and never have any intention to solve their dilemmas!

Reading thru this thread again..thinking..whoa..this is me now!!! But then I started wondering if I really know someone who is truely not exploratory, suffocating? I don´t think I do because when I scratch beneathe the surface..even those with "smaller lives" seem to explore something within their "own radius"..which I sometimes don´t perceive just because it is perhaps quite small..according to me. But then I find that within their "little world" they find things and see things that I have never seen..

hmm..Orchid..this is an interesting thread..sometimes doing nothing can be something..maybe??? We all have different definitions of things...or am I totally off the wall??

I remember talking to a man who had moved with his family across the street..and he felt he had made such a big move..I was kinda speechless because I had fled from the Czech Rep. with my family as a baby and then moved from the US to Sweden after I got married. But that was his world..and looking back..he did alot of pottering around in his world..that I have never done..hmm..interesting, Orchid. And this man had family ties that were strong and near..mine are all over the place and not always so pleasant..and this includes my mom..unfortunately..

Hmm..Orchid..interesting thoughts, dear lady..thank you!!!

No, the man and his family and I were never close friends..but I enjoyed watching his family grow up..

As frustrating as it can be at times, we can never really know what's going on in the minds, hearts and lives of other people. There are so many things that can paralyze a person or shrink their world...physical disability, mental disability, fear, family obligation, financial constraints, and, well, just plain simple personal preference. It's not always as simple as just looking at someone's choices and deciding whether they're right or wrong - they would be the wrong choices for you or for me, but they're not necessarily the wrong choices for another person.

I've been on this site for about three years now. I've done far more than my fair share of complaining, and of standing still, unable to change or move out of the fog for long stretches of time. I know it, but I also know that it comes out of a place where the pain and agony of loss has at times been so excruciating that it effectively crippled me and at times completely debilitated me.

When I first arrived here, fear, anxiety, depression and grief were keeping me locked in my own home, desperately lonely, but terrified to even step out my front door to check my mailbox. If you (a collective you) had met me in person back then, you could not have seen any of that - I looked the picture of health, and so you would have probably shaken your heads and perhaps labeled me a variety of sad ways and walked away. But nobody here ever judged me, you all welcomed me in with such warmth and care, and you listened and prayed with me, until eventually your love and patience and wisdom helped me to venture out on my own.

Some people simply take longer - and need more help - to rise above the floodwaters that life (and death) can throw at them...that in itself can be enough of a journey to last a lifetime.

I still struggle, and because of that I know that others do too, and that we can never know all that's contributing to another person's choices. I've learned to acknowledge and appreciate the value and beauty of all journeying, whether it be an exhilarating walk along a rugged coastline, or an exploratory trek through one's own heart.

This is an interesting thread. I am glad Orchid started it. You know we all want to live our lives to the fullest and that also means not wasting time. But what we fail to see is that when we look at others, we see them through our eyes, not theirs. We want them to be us inside of them. There's a poem about this that I'll have to find and post here.

I have people in my family that live in their own little small world and are happy. It would drive me up the wall to live like that but I am glad they are happy within their world.

They are not particularly concerned about the larger world, nor do they care to take part in many things that are outside family news and gatherings. While this is hard for me to do, I understand it's their world.

Orchid maybe you could try to see their world and what makes it so special to them or try to explain your thoughts and feeling with them. Perhaps seeing each others through different eyes and feelings would help you out with those people.

I am learning as I read this thread.

orchid, in may ways, your mom reminds me of mine. She had tremendous potential, but chose to raise her family and stay married to the notion forever. When we were children, she was over the top happy. No doubt. But once we all carried on with our lives, I saw her as being stuck, but that was my view. I know she was sad for awhile, in her empty nest, but I also think a piece of that sadness remained with her. However, she never let us feel that our leaving home was cause for it. It just was - because she really cared most about being a stay-at-home mom.

After all of us were raised, I wanted more for her than she wanted for herself. I was always saying things like - why don't you do this, or that, or do you want to do this or that? Now I look back and think...why didn't I just mind my own business? It's what I wanted for her, but not what she wanted for herself. So then I ask myself why I wanted those things for her, and my answer is because I thought it would be something she'd enjoy, but what do we really know about others and what they want for themselves. Just because I like to try new things and venture out, doesn't mean others like the same.

And there are levels of this, I am finding. There are people who enjoy risk and adventure more than I who probably wonder why I don't try new and different things, but I have a comfort zone that I also like to stay within. An example is that I like to snorkel, but would never scuba dive. Scuba divers don't understand that.

Funny, huh?

Orchid and Dotsie, I can so relate to the Mom aspect of this discussion. My Mom was the same. She was an amazing, capable, intelligent woman with an enormous generous heart (e.g., she volunteered in various hospital and community organizations several days a week from her teenage years until her early 70's.) She poured all of herself into raising her family, bearing 5 children, losing one in infancy, and then raising the 4 of us with what I now realize must have been a huge hole in her heart for most of our growing-up years.

What saddens me the most is that she and I had a very turbulent relationship, abusive in some ways, and I never had the chance to appreciate what an amazing woman she really was until much later in life. Looking back, I wish I could have taken her on trips, because she loved to travel and Dad didn't, so she rarely went anywhere...oh, she would have loved to travel through Europe or go on a cruise, or see the rest of Canada. But her entire world shrunk to the size of whatever house we lived in at the time, and those volunteer hours in the community. Was she happy? I don't think so. I saw glimpses of her frustration and restlessness, but I never really understood or appreciated her sacrifice until much later, when I realized how much bigger the world was, and how little of it my Mom had been able to experience and discover.

It is sad, when you know what's out there and see how little of it people are willing or able to experience...whether by choice or circumstance.

As I constantly struggle with my own inexplicable yearning to just curl up in my own little cocoon and never leave home, I am very grateful to have a husband who insists on traveling to new places...the more I see of this amazing world, the more I want to see, so that keeps both of us expanding our range of possibilities.

Eagle, you mention sacrifice. My mom scarificed so much for her family. It's amazing and it's soemthing that is done less and less. I believe the sacrifices of the women in our mothers' generation play a huge role in who boomer women are today. Interesting... that their sacrifices were noticed by their daughters and many of us chose to do differently.

Dotsie..you wrote..interesting..that their sacrifices were noticed by their daughters and many of us chose to do differently. But dear Dotsie, when you read thru this thread..don´t you find that most of you wish "more" for your moms..that perhaps you don´t quite understand the way they lead their lives..eventho you are greatful to your moms for what they gave you..but maybe your moms didn´t want more for themselves..life was ok..more or less..it´s never perfect, is it?..my mom didn´t do too much sacrificing..which is comforting for me..but has left me with a big mamma hole. She lived life to the fullest as an individual,tho. And what did I do? I became a work at home mom for my 5 kids..my mom was a career woman with only me as her child. And NOW my adult children..the remaining 4..2 of them are very critical of the way I mothered them..not meaning smothered..but I used them as my social comapny and support, they say.. ..it´s so easy to have opinions about how are near and dearest should live their lives..but do we really KNOW?? As the mother of adult children..I find it very difficult at times with all the opinions or comments upon what I do or not do. I am ME..Humlan:mother, partner, colleague, friend and individual..and lots more, I suppose. Noone can see inside of me now, or in the past..not even my closest love ones..sometimes I can´t see inside of my own self, either

PS..thought over what I have written..and just want to say that it is written with love and respect for all of us, moms..and our moms that were moms to us in the best way they could in their time here on earth..it´s perhaps easier to SEE in hindsight? I don´t know and I don´t pretend to know