I'm not so much needing advice as I am just wanting to vent. My younger son has lost his mind and it's making me crazy.
He's been with GF for 3 years. During this time he's kicked her out because she lied about being with ex-boyfriend. First time I met her she talked about her ex BF more than she talked about my son. Last year she talked about how much she loves my son and how she sees the light about her ex BF.
Last week my son found her ex's phone number 4 times on their bill...one where she talked to him for 2 hours while she was on vacation. He asked her about it and she says that he called her to talk about his mom for the first hour and then he told her how much he loves her and etc... She says she didn't tell my son because she didn't want him to WORRY????!!!! Give me a freaking break. My son has his head up his butt concerning this girl and it's absolutely foolish on his part still believing anything that comes out of her mouth concerning her ex. She's beautiful and he's truly smitten with her but how many times does this girl have to walk on his heart before he wakes up? Does anyone have a common-sense hammer I can smack up against his head?

Dee we all had to learn these life lessons the hard way. Did you listen to your parents about a love interest? I never did and did learn the hard way. Here I was over 50 and still learning lessons the hard way. It never ends no matter who we are or how old. He'll learn too, probably the hard way!!!

Chatty...I know you're right...it's just so hard watching him make the same mistake over and over with her. And why? That's my main concern. Why does an intelligent, decent, hard working, nice guy do this? Does he need a bad girl? I don't get it...he's 31...she's 23...that's part of the problem...different maturity level...but, I wonder about his when he keeps excusing her excuses.

Dee darlin, where men are concerned, young or old, they have a one track mind and the head they are usually thinking with is not the one above their chin, but the one below their navel. Been there, done that too. My very handsome son David has had some real doozies, but he married a really class act!

Chatty...his girlfriend told me (after she'd had a bit too much wine to drink) that she could care less about having sex and it's not a priority for her. My son has talked to me many times about her lack of desire and they've both been to the doctor...so it's not that he's got a great sex life with this woman. I think the only reason she's staying with my son is for financial security even though she has a good job. To be honest I don't know why either of them are with each other. They're both unhappy.
Anne...have you found that common sense hammer yet? I need to mail it to my son.

Butting in here, Dee..quickly..common sense hammer: stop and think,boy (your son)..get into your own space and zone for awhile..what do YOU want from a relationship??? What do you want to give to your children..with the help of your wife..the mother of your children?? Close all your doors for awhile and THINK (my/your son)..what do YOU want??? Where are you going with this girl? Where is she going with YOU?? Maybe you should set her free..for HER sake? Are you really that good for eachother? Are YOU that good for her?? Risky thought here..but it might work = is it good for her that you are letting her walk all over you?

Making love is very central to a relationship, maybe the lack of it is telling the 2 of you something? Maybe the girl can´t "bloom" with you (and you, with her)? Maybe you need to take some responsibility here for what is happening or not happening? Are you TRUE to YOURSELF in this relationship???

Good luck, dear DEE!!!

Humlan...you NEVER butt in...never. I love your voice and everyone else's. That's why I come here...advice, support, fresh perspective...I wish I lived closer to him so I could take him out to dinner and really, really talk with him. It's heartbreaking to know that he's making excuses for the obvious.

Dee, do You know what I think is fantastic? It’s that you know so much about your son’s relationship. My sons were both pretty closed mouthed about their love lives. I never knew anything, which in hindsight, might have its advantages as well. Just being a Mom and listening to your son shows a wonderful relationship between the two of you.

What do you say when he says his sex life with his GF isn’t good? Now if my son were to tell me that, I would say something like what Dancer said in another thread; "Marriages are made and broken in bed." I would try not to advise him, (I know that’s hard.),…but try to act neutral and give neutral advice. Allowing him to use you as a sounding board can be good for two things; one…you find out about what is going on, and two, you are giving him an opportunity to vent and listen to himself talk. That may be all he needs to wake him up.
I know it is heart breaking to see the obvious and watch another make mistakes. But he's your son Dee. He must have inherited some of your common sense.

Hannelore...you always have such wisdom. I mean that. Thanks again for words that always make sense to me.

I raised him by myself and had to be mom and dad. I had the 'talk' with him instead of his dad and so he's always had a safe place to come and talk about anything with me. So, it's not surprising that he and I communicate on this level. Actually, the only time he comes to me for advice is when he's having girl troubles. So, when he does let me know there are problems, I know he's struggling. I also know that he is the one who has to act or not act on his situation...it's so obvious to me and anyone else who's standing back from all this...but, I made some really dumb mistakes concerning relationship, too.

Hannelore...I adore you, sweetheart. Thanks for your common sense words.

Dee, be very careful what you say because if he learns that you want her out and she ends up staying, he may know he's disappointing you and not share as much in the future. Just a thought.

I just went through this yesterday with my daughter who has been seeing her beau for several years and they are on the outs at the moment. This can has changed on a dime. I sorta gave her my permission to give it up. I've never really done this before. I hope I didn't say too much. I asked what she thought of my opinion and she said, "I appreciate it, but the decision is up to me." She sounded so mature and she's right.

Mom always taught us to be careful what we say about boyfriends/girlfriends and BILs and SILs because we shouldn't be the ones to choose them.

I know it's tough to watch your kids suffer through these things, but soemtimes it's the only was they learn.

Has he asked you for advice?

Sorry to hear you're going through this with your daughter...and it's good that she said she appreciates your opinion. You and I agree that we say these things out of love...not control.
I've sort of learned to tiptoe through some of the issues concerning girlfriends...learned the hard way. But, what's weird is the times I did speak up against what prior girlfriends were doing...he would dig in his heels and lo and behold they proved what I tried to tell him. He knows me well enough to know that when I put in my 2 cents that it's out of love...but, I sent him an email awhile ago and told him that I respect him and his decision and this is his life and I support whatever he decides to do. It's all I can do...like you say, it's tough to watch them suffer through things but in the end this woman he's dating is going to be their undoing.

Dee,
My oldest son just broke up with a very lovely girl we all adore. Their problem was relegious based and the fact that she and her mom belittled him for some of the most childish things. Not saying that just cause he's my kid either. He called me and we talked for hours about this. Again, he called and she was wanting to try again. But, he said she'd have to change here and there and she says he's got to change. Yet, neither of them are willing o listen to what the other wants changed of them. So, my advice to him was " You are almost 2 weeks out of this relationship and doing much better. Do you really want back in it, knowing the differences are not workable if you neither one are wiling to compromise. Thus, you have to go back through another break up and the healing done so far has to be repeted. When 2 people LOVE each other, they don't have to ask the other one to change, the other person should see what they do that makes their mate unhappy and change themself out of love for their mate. Likewise, if you really love her, you'd be willing to change to suit her. OR at least both of you come to a workable compromise each giving a little toward common ground. He took this very well and laughed telling me his brother, (the soon to be Groom) told him Mom will give good advice and be honest. When I inquired if his brother told him why he said that - he didn't. I told him it was probably due to during one of his brothers breakups with his fiance' I told the poor boo-hooing son, "Right now I wouldn't marry you either". LOL
I'm so lucky to have this close bond with my sons, it's based on years of listening & never let them see you sweat, no matter how shocked you are, stay cool, level and nuteral. I wish you and your son the best working through this. Tell him he deserves the same loyality he gives. My oldest is close to 29, your's is 31, maybe he's like my son and really wants a relationship so much that he's willing to settle. LOL My husband didn't get lucky/ME till he was in his mid 30's. Oour boys have plenty of time to find real love.

Dee, don't you just love emailing the kids? It's such a neat way to comunicate on certain topics.

Qball, it's bad enough to have a girl rag on you, but her mom too? Thats not fair.

Q-ball...I'm so glad to know that your relationship with your sons is so good...and it's wonderful that they can come to you for sound advice. There's nothing better than having a child (adult) come to you for advice and actually taking it. You did a lot right in raising them.

Dotsie...yes, I love it when my sons and I email...My younger son is a man of few words but when he does email it's awesome. My older son is like me...could go on and on and that's always fun.

id been reading and not so sure what to write , i don't have teenage sons apart from one in partners life but we aint that close anymore and gebneralie he's become a closed book, i know p worries more about this thatn the bad details she is told. I could generalise the situasion to a frend and how i don't like to see them hurt but that be underplaying what you feel dee as the feeling for kids are soooooo much more than that of a frend.

thinking bout my owen experinces and one if not the single most thing i whished i had with my mother was for her to listen to me without it being used in some way that wasen't nice.

thats what your doing dee and what a great asset you must be for him. I know its hard and painfull to watch but someone said before that all we can do is let them walk their owen pathway (i just been writting about this in another thread) and how hard but necassarie it is, listening, giving best advice, not contoling situasion is the best any of us can do for any other. Your doing all you can, i am sure it won't stop the pain but all that can be done is being done. Can that firm knowlage content you in anyway?

I found it!

Anno, that's great.

Dee, that's funny. My youngest will go on and on and my oldest is a man of few words. I love emailing with him.

ANNO--- You crack me up girl!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I'm going to copy it and send it to my son.

Celtic...you always give wonderful advice and I am touched that you offer it kindly and so sweetly. Thank you

Dotsie...if we can't see our kids as often as we'd like, knowing we can email at anytime sure doee help.

It's the "mating dance." Eventually someone tires and walks away. Just be there for your son and prepare yourself for a repeat performance with a new partner, or maybe not. Perhaps the next time the dance will be nice and slow and continue past midnight. This is my way of saying, "Hang in there mom!"

NYW...I'm hanging in there...and I love how you phrased it. When my son emailed me that she'd been on the phone to her ex I wanted to send him an email that said...."and you're surprised because....?" But, I didn't. We mom's have to hold it in sometimes, don't we.

Love ya'll for all the support.