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#138020 - 01/15/08 01:40 PM Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls?
sues Offline


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 24
I have been with my husband for 21 years and married for almost 18. I'm thinking about divorce and would like to have a clear picture of what this would be like if I decide to go that route. I'm going to see a lawyer in the next two weeks to see what my "rights" are. We have two children, 10 & 13. Our relationship has always been up and down - never really stable. I think my husband might have some depression but he won't see anyone for it or take any medication. My biggest issue is "Do I want to spend the next 20 years with him?" The thought doesn't excite me. I'm 46 years old, am fairly independent and I love life. He prefers to watch TV. He's also extremely critical and I just don't think he likes me. We've gone to counseling several times, but nothing really changes. He spends half his time mad at me for something or another. So, for all of you who are divorced, what should I consider, expect, realize before I move forward?
Sue

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#138021 - 01/15/08 03:43 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: sues]
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 10032
Loc: New York State
sues,
I got divorced when my son was 13. Nobody wins in a divorce.
I met my lst husband in high school. We dated three years.
We were married 14 years. He found someone else; that's the only reason I divorced him. He ran around all the while we were married. But I loved him. The divorce took place in 1980. So, you can see how long ago it was. I still dream about him. And I guess I still love him, in some ways. My son is now grown and has a family of his own, naturally. But from age 13 to 21, that kid suffered. He loved his dad. And he lived with me. He did visit dad and stepmom, however. After he graduated from high school he joined the paratroopers, and came home a whole new person. My second husband has some of the personality traits you describe in your husband.
If you can't stand living with the guy, perhaps divorce is your only option. But I'll tell you straight, it's a hard road of roller coaster emotions. And your kids will have a difficult time, 10 and 13 are stressful ages, without a family breakup. What if you talk to him and tell him your plans? Tell him you're serious. Think it'd help? I don't know! But prayers and blessings, whatever you decide!!!
In those days, they had fault divorces and I got everything:
property, house and contents; the lawyer got the money. Nowadays most states have no fault divorces and everything is split 50/50. But even, if like me, you walk away with it all that doesn't help. Twenty-eight years later, the pain is still raw!

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#138022 - 01/15/08 05:25 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: jabber]
gims Offline
Member

Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
Having your mother-n-law move in with you will probably put an end to it if things are as you say.

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#138023 - 01/15/08 05:39 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: gims]
Casey Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
Sue,
It's very difficult to look forward with someone you don't like and who belittles you. Bonnie is right, though, the kids ages are tough -- right at the beginning of teenage years.

With my 20-20 hindsight (LOL!), I would say to really take a look at yourself before you divorce. What do you need to learn from this marriage? Are their boundaries that you need to put into place that will serve you in whatever relationship you are in? Have you cleaned up your past issues? What are your contributions to the problems in the relationship?

I'm not meaning to criticize you in the least! As I said, I've been divorced a few times. Sometimes it's the only way to go. But what enabled me to get out of my patterns was to do the work that I'm suggesting to you. I did it after my last marriage and now am married to a wonderful man. I did start it before the marriage ended, and that's how I knew it had to end (he was an alcoholic). The kids suffered a bit (13 and 17), but in the end, they knew it was for the best.

Good luck!
_________________________
Casey Dawes
Wise Woman Shining
Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.

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#138024 - 01/15/08 06:52 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: Casey]
glessmom Offline


Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 24
Loc: WI
Well - I was divorced from my first husband when my daughter was 9 yrs old. She suffered a lot from it - held a lot inside. He left me for another woman - one with 2 children - so I didn't really have a lot of input into the situation.

I will say that financially - divorce can be a disaster. It took me years to recover from it. Also - the person you are married to can turn into someone you never knew and uglier than you could ever imagine possible. Doesn't always happen like that - but be aware that it is a definite possibility - especially when you start talking about dividing up the resources and the money.

Just be sure you are in a good, stable monetary position before you enter into it - have a plan for yourself and for your kids.
_________________________
Blessings,
Linda

www.ugomom.com

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#138025 - 01/15/08 08:43 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: glessmom]
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
Just wondering if you know what your kids think of your marriage. Do you do lots of bickering in front of them?

You are wise to come here and ask questions before acting on impulse.

And welcome to BWS!

I'm sure others will chime in.
_________________________
Founder Emeritus of Boomer Women Speak and the National Association of Baby Boomer Women.
www.nabbw.com
www.boomerwomenspeak.com


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#138026 - 01/15/08 09:15 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls?
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
This may not be the most popular opinion but if it were me and it has been, don't waste one more minute of your life with someone you don't love or even like much. Our time and youth is gone before we know it and I wasted years on a marriage that was bad. Now I am free but my youth is gone, wasted while waiting for what, I'm not sure... Don't wait, be happy!!! Understand one more thing, the pickens out here are slim at best, so learn to be happy with yourself before looking for a replacement...
Oh, and welcome to our sisterhood Sues...
_________________________
Take a peek at my BLOG:

http://charleen-micheles.blogspot.com/


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#138027 - 01/16/08 12:57 AM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: chatty lady]
dancer9 Offline


Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2411
Loc: Arizona
I'm going to be a bit different here too. I agree totally with Chatty! Ditto to what she said!

I had a wonderful divorce. I mean that. When I got divorced, we were still friends so it was a bittersweet thing and we had seen so many friends fight it out that we were not going that way! We were respectful of one another and did not act like animals.

I think the secret to our wonderful divorce was honesty. I was completely, completely honest with him. I told him I wanted honesty from him and I beared up and took his honesty and listened. I learned all about his feelings, discussed them with him and he listened to mine. We had a one and a half year old son!

He was a bit in love with me but knew we were not exactly compatable. I knew that I could not be myself and happy with him at that time in my life. I told him that maybe another time and another place, who knows?

Like you, Sue, we did not have much in common. I was a professional dancer, he was a pro golfer. Those are very different lives. A dancer is a gypsy and a jazz master like myself is full of life and always ready to try new things in life. A dancer doesn't care if she drives and if she does, she may drive some kind of motorcycle like I did. A golfer drives a Lexus as he did, LOL. We just didn't match.

We loved out son completely too. We BOTH loved our son and had married to get pregnant. We promised to share him and never get petty and we did this in a church! We went to the church where we got married and told each other that we would never stoop to underhanded tactics and would love each other as friends NO MATTER WHAT. And we did. We still do.

Our son is 20, and I can call him tonight and borrow a cup of sugar! Sure, it hurt here and there when I remarried or when he would have a girlfriend, and we would compare lives and such, but we got together and TALKED at those times until we talked it out!

Strange, I know, but my parents had an excellent divorce as well. My fathers new wife would take my mother places from time to time and had complete compassion for her!

A divorce can be not so bad if you can RETURN to those feelings that made you get married and divorce from THOSE feelings, not the bad feelings you have now.

If he is not right for you, Chatty is right. Never make a mistake and stick with it. But try, just try, to do a divorce with the kid gloves on, it just might work for you too!

dancer, strange.
_________________________
http://www.annalisanews.com/

"Question your privilege"

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#138028 - 01/16/08 03:31 AM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: dancer9]
Princess Lenora Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 3503
Loc: Colorado
I never heard the words "wonderful" and "divorce" put together! I'm concerned for Sues that if her husband is cheap, cheap, cheap, then how will he pay the child support, even if court-ordered to do so? When a couple divorces, the finances of the woman decreases while for the men, the quality of life increases! Noone needs a full time critic. What we need is nurture.

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#138029 - 01/16/08 07:38 AM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: Princess Lenora]
Edelweiss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
Not too long ago, I stood before the same decision. Leaving my husband just for one night and two days showed my Hubby that I was serious, and that I would not continue to live with him under the present circumstances.

Marriage counselling, and him taking me seriously has improved our marriage. It’s not 100%...but then again what marriage is 100% perfect? I’m still with him. There are days when I just love him to pieces and there are days when I think, oh no, I can’t take this… but those negative days happen rarely and they aren’t as dramatic as they used to be.

So my suggestion is; don’t think divorce, … think separation. Even if it’s just a night, it may work wonders, like it did for me.

Wishing you the very best insight for the right decision.

Hannelore

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#138030 - 01/16/08 02:39 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: Edelweiss]
jawjaw Offline
Da Queen

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 12025
Loc: Alabama
I keep thinking about what one of the women here said their granny use to say to them, whose shoes are you wearing? I don't know you, I don't know your hubby, and I certainly don't know what has transpired in your 21 years of marriage, so I won't tell you to divorce him. Besides, that isn't what you asked. You wanted to know what to expect if and when you moved forward.

Expect what you prepare for...by that I mean if you are seriously going to leave, what preparations have you made for your new life? Do you know exactly what your husband makes? If he has any hidden accounts? Where will you live? How will you live? What will be your NEW monthly income and outflow? Can you live off that?

What will you tell your children NOW and later. Cause later will come. I don't care what anybody tries to tell you, the children will be affected. They will have questions, even if they don't voice them. Some suffer in silence and the results of the divorce comes out LATER...much later and can be in the form of rebellion. Are you prepared mentally for this? Have you considered it?

Do you work? Can you take off whenever the children are sick?

Are you parents in good health? What will happen to your job if you have to suddenly become a caregiver?

Taxes...have you talked to an accountant?

Will you have to move? If so, will the children have to change schools? I hope not.

What will you do when your friends chose sides...and trust me, they will.

Do you have multiple cars? Is yours in good working condition or is his a better vehicle? Who pays for them? Can you afford to keep yours? Insurance? Maintenance?

The home...same questions.

Visitations for the children.

Do you have health insurance? If not, what will you do when the children get sick? If you do have health insurance, or if you can MAKE SURE through the divorce that HE continues to carry it, great. But let me tell you something, you need to be prepared (if he becomes bitter) for him to quit his job and have NO insurance. What would you do then?

If you don't hear anything I'm saying here, hear this. When it comes to divorce, people change. They become these people/or this person you don't even know. They get mean, hungry lawyers and they want it all...regardless of the children. This doesn't happen every time, but I feel comfortable in saying it happens more than not.

If you are going forward, prepare yourself. Get records of his income, your assets, his 401K, retirement, and health insurance. GET PROFESSIONAL ADVICE.

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#138031 - 01/16/08 04:33 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: jawjaw]
Mountain Ash Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 3027
I notice that you are also asking in another post about your Mother in Law moving in with you.
I presume she would be giving up her home to do so.This factor has to be well thought out before you make up you mind.No older person needs to be unsettled at such a life changing time.Nor should you stay married due to the commitment to sharing a home with this lady.
Just my opinion.
Mountain ash

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#138032 - 01/16/08 04:54 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: Mountain Ash]
ladyjane Offline


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 1761
Loc: Southern Maine, USA
Within 8 hours, you first posted about a dull husband who watches tv and doesn't want to do anything, within minutes you posted about your mother-in-law moving in and stated you have two fairly young children, thirdly, you then posted about the fact that you're considering a divorce...all without tying one to the other. The three things don't go together at all and you need to consider many aspects of your life before doing anything .
_________________________
If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane ~ Jimmy Buffett

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#138033 - 01/16/08 04:58 PM Thank you so much [Re: Edelweiss]
sues Offline


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 24
Well you ladies have certainly given me a ton to think about. I think if kids weren't involved, it would be a pretty easy decision. Both of my kids are wonderful and actually "stick up" for me when Jorge gets on me. The other day it was actually funny. It was Friday night and I had to take the kids to the pediatrician and then my daughter to the eye doctor. We were there until 7:00. I had to ask my husband to go grab something for dinner because, god forbid he should ask if he can do something. We got home and I was exhausted. I was standing at the counter shoving some cheese and crackers in my mouth because Jorge got pizza for dinner (which I don't eat), and he says "Are you going to join us or what?" So Julian says "Dad, mom just spend like 4 hours with us taking us all over the place. Don't you think she needs a break?" It's amazing how insightful he is.
Anyway, they know their father; very gruff but very loving. That's one of the issues that drives me crazy is that he can yell at me one minute and grab my ass the next.
I make good money so I'm confident I could be on my own although I know he would never let the kids suffer financially. I am happy with myself and I can't imagine wanting to be married again. I would just want good sex!
But thank you so much. Keep that advice coming. It's wonderful to read so I can work things through in my head.

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#138034 - 01/17/08 01:47 PM Re: Thank you so much [Re: sues]
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
sues, take your time, make lists, talk with him about it, seek counsel, envision life without him, envision life with him - PRAY - seek God's will for your life, and eventually you will know exactly what to do for the good of your children and your self.

I'm happy to see you get back. Feel free to jump in other topics.
_________________________
Founder Emeritus of Boomer Women Speak and the National Association of Baby Boomer Women.
www.nabbw.com
www.boomerwomenspeak.com


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#138035 - 01/17/08 09:51 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: Edelweiss]
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 10032
Loc: New York State
Well, I've been married twice. And I'm not perfect. I don't expect him to be perfect. Like Hannelore, some days I love him; some days I don't love so much. But 1 divorce is enough for me. Thank you! I rather live together separately than go through another d-i-v-o-r-c-e, as Tammy Wynette
sang.


Edited by bonnierose333 (01/17/08 09:53 PM)

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#138036 - 01/18/08 12:53 AM Re: Lady Jane's email [Re: Edelweiss]
sues Offline


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 24
I was going on other forums, but a lot of the "girls" were just too young. Then I thought about coming here. So I had had a lot on my mind. Over the holidays, the whole thing about my MIL came up, so I'm just trying to seek information about it. And the other post in marriage about my husband is directly related to how I feel about him. One of the reasons I'm considering all this is because I don't know if I want to spend the next 20 years with someone who is going to watch TV.
I have never said the word "divorce" out loud. I am seriously thinking about though and it will probably take me a year or two to move forward with it. Right now I'm thinking about how to plan for it. I wouldn't do it unless I checked everything out and decided it was right for me and my family. However, I am not willing to completely give up my happiness and my life for my kids. I do have my own business, make good money and could probably afford to buy a house on my own if need be. But I want to look at it from different angles and you all are giving me those angles to look at it from.

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#138037 - 01/18/08 08:18 PM Re: Lady Jane's email [Re: sues]
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 10032
Loc: New York State
Sues,
I don't think MIL coming to live with you guys is the greatest idea I've ever heard. MIL's usually take their son's side in every darn issue. And that gets irritating.

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#138038 - 01/18/08 11:10 PM Re: Lady Jane's email [Re: jabber]
jawjaw Offline
Da Queen

Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 12025
Loc: Alabama
Sues, if your plans are to go forward, I can't stress enough to you that you need to get PROFESSIONAL advice.

Also, Dotsie had an excellent resource recently who was an expert in divorce. Her web site is full of resources for anyone no matter what stage of the "divorce game" they are in. Here is the link:

www.themodernwomansdivorceguide.com

Talking among us is great to help you with the inside scoop on real life situations and what may have happened to others, and for hearing about these situations so you don't get caught up in the same dramas, but when it comes down to it....get professional advice.

Would you want ME going to court for you? I don't think soooooo! Just my two cents worth.

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#138039 - 01/18/08 11:16 PM Re: Lady Jane's email [Re: jawjaw]
dancer9 Offline


Registered: 04/16/07
Posts: 2411
Loc: Arizona
Amen, Jaw Jaw!
dancer
_________________________
http://www.annalisanews.com/

"Question your privilege"

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#138040 - 01/19/08 11:14 PM Re: Lady Jane's email [Re: dancer9]
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
Sues,
I agree, but remember you will feel differently on different days. My advice above was for when its all bad everyday, then exiting out is the best way. BUT that said, there was a lovely lady here wanting badly to get a divorce and she posted a long while back about it. She and I began a dialogue through PM's and emails and after some excruciating truths, in heart to heart talks, she decided that the grass was NOT greener on the other side, that her husband compared to other husbands some of the women here were suffering with and even though hers was not always perfect, he didn't sound all that bad compared to the rest. He is not always perfect, but then who of us are? She stayed with her husband and they have shared some happy and memorable times. This is something that takes much thought and conversation if he will talk about it with you. NO one can change the things they don't realize make us crazy, at least give him a chance to change. I said it before and say it again, there are slim pickens out here in the world, men are slime for the most part and it isn't getting any better...Good luck!


Edited by chatty lady (01/19/08 11:16 PM)
_________________________
Take a peek at my BLOG:

http://charleen-micheles.blogspot.com/


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#138041 - 01/20/08 06:38 PM Re: Lady Jane's email [Re: chatty lady]
jabber Offline
Member

Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 10032
Loc: New York State
Sues,
If you're looking for someone better, as Chat said, "Good men are hard to find. And the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence." Okay, perhaps she didn't say it like that but that was the implication I got. jj's link looks wonderful, should you decide to go that route. That MIL moving in thing, has me worried. Prayers and blessings no matter what you decide.

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#138042 - 01/20/08 06:50 PM Re: Lady Jane's email [Re: jabber]
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
Sues, have you told him you'd prefer if he did something other than watch TV? If you want to resolve things, how about asking him to do specific activities during that TV watching time?
_________________________
Founder Emeritus of Boomer Women Speak and the National Association of Baby Boomer Women.
www.nabbw.com
www.boomerwomenspeak.com


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#138044 - 01/21/08 01:58 AM amazing insights [Re: ]
sues Offline


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 24
Thank you for your amazing insights. I know I'm going to take a lot of time to think about this. I think the bottom line question is "Do I want to stay with him for the next 20 years and live like I am or do I want something else?" I think my husband has pretty extreme emotions and can be somewhat depressed. I have asked him to consider taking medication because I think it would stablize his emotions. But he won't. He doesn't think he has any issues. We fight over and over about the same thing and yesterday as he was lecturing me yet again about something I said (I asked him if we should put a towel down on the floor of the laundry room floor because the kids were playing in the snow and coming in and out - and he said I was trying to control the situation yet again). So it's at the point where I just don't know how to act, how to be, to make him not be angry at me.
He does have many good points, but his constant badgering is taking a toll on me. I don't want to try anymore. I look forward to his "good days" and want to disappear on his "bad days." And if he wants to spend his time in front of the TV (I've mentioned this multiple times but he doesn't think he watches a lot of TV), then he can, but I'm not.
I came to a realization the other night. It was kind of a small thing, but he called me upstairs to tell me that I would absolutely love the movie he was watching. He spent a lot of the day in bed watching TV. It was "A good year" with Russell Crowe. Well yes I would love that movie as I lived in France for a year and love Province. But, when that movie came out, I told him I wanted to see it (and it was directed by one of his favorite directors), but he told me it was a "chick flick" and he wouldn't go. So I didn't go. Just then I thought, that is the last time I don't do something because he doesn't want to do it. He ended up watching it and really liked it, but when I wanted to see it, I was told "No." Stupid, but it made me realize that I can't let him stop me from doing even the smallest thing I want to do as long as it doesn't hurt him or my kids or cost a ton of money. Maybe once I go off and start doing things on my own, I'll be happier and he'll realize that I'm ready to live without him.

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#138045 - 01/21/08 02:01 AM One more thing [Re: Edelweiss]
sues Offline


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 24
One more thing....I'm pretty independent and I think I'd be happy by myself (without a man). It's not that I'm looking for someone better. I just want to be happy and not have any regrets 10 years down the road.
Also, I've been to therapists over the years as he used to verbally abuse me. He doesn't do that anymore, because I won't put up with it. We also went to counseling together and he went separately as well.

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#138046 - 01/21/08 06:00 PM Re: One more thing [Re: sues]
Casey Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
Sue, It's always important that you have a life of your own away from the relationship. If the other person doesn't want to go somewhere, of course you go!

I have the sense that you are trying to control this man. You said:

So it's at the point where I just don't know how to act, how to be, to make him not be angry at me.

All you can do is put in boundaries for appropriate behavior. If he is angry with you, that is truly his issue. It's his anger. If you feel you are at fault, apologize and move on. If not, don't try to "fix" his anger. It's his. The more you try to fix him, the less responsibility he has to take for his own actions.

Also, women have a habit of using questions to tell their spouses what to do. It drives men nuts. You said:

I asked him if we should put a towel down on the floor of the laundry room floor because the kids were playing in the snow and coming in and out

I'm not sure why you asked him that at all. If you were caring for the laundry room, then put the towel down without asking. If not, it's his job. The question you asked will sound like a criticism to a man. Not to another woman necessarily, but definitely to a man. They hear us differently.

Boundaries are important in any relationship, particularly marriage. You've taught him how to treat you. So, if you don't want to be yelled at during a discussion, you get to state that boundary (when you are calm) and enforce it. For example, you might say, "It destresses me when you raise your voice when we have an argument. The next time it happens, I'll let you know that it is going on. If it continues, I will end the discussion by leaving the room."

Then do it.

....getting off of soap box and lugging it away....

Big Hugs, Sue! It's tough.
_________________________
Casey Dawes
Wise Woman Shining
Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.

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#138047 - 01/21/08 07:35 PM Re: One more thing [Re: Casey]
Edelweiss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
Casey you are so very wise.

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#138048 - 01/21/08 09:42 PM Re: One more thing [Re: Edelweiss]
Princess Lenora Offline
Member

Registered: 11/11/04
Posts: 3503
Loc: Colorado
Hi Sue, you certainly have a lot to think about. I picked the following from your post. Pardon the capitals, but I am using them to point something out: "We FIGHT over and over about the same thing and yesterday as he was LECTURING me yet again about something I said (I asked him if we should put a towel down on the floor of the laundry room floor because the kids were playing in the snow and coming in and out - and he said I was trying to CONTROL the situation yet again). So it's at the point where I just don't know how to act, how to be, to make him not be ANGRY at me.
He does have many good points, but his constant BADGERING." end quote. I look at some of those words and I think "verbal abuse/emotional abuse." If you don't know how to act, how to be, and you can't be your authentic self, then I am afraid abuse is still a part of the relationship. The words:" fight, lecturing, control, angry, badgering" are not nurturing relationship words. And you say "yet again" "over and over" which are key words to indicate a pattern of abuse. Sue, I am afraid that the counseling was ineffective and/or incomplete. Abuse is about power and control. You gave him power in the towel situation by asking him, he grabbed the power and controlled the situation by turning it BACK ON YOU as if YOU had a problem. You can't trust yourself as to how to act (you ask: should I do this? should I do that?) for fear of making him mad, and his unpredictable behavior makes him relationally untrustworthy. Trust is key for the foundation of relationship, and trust pertains to more than fidelity. The movie example is something you sound enlightened about, as if you had an "ah ha" moment. Yes, seize your opportunities for joy with or without him. The book by Patricia Evans "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" is excellent in explaining the covert and overt patterns of abuse, and there is a web site. I have discussed my marriage on this site, and I was blessed by the feedback, and able to make the right choice for me. I hope our discussions can help you as well. L, PL


Edited by Princess Lenora (01/21/08 09:49 PM)

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#138049 - 01/22/08 01:30 AM Re: One more thing [Re: Princess Lenora]
sues Offline


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 24
Wow. You ladies are great! Thank you.
Casey, that one comment you made about putting it into the form of a question and him feeling like I'm criticizing him is probably very true with him. My husband is Latino and while all his cousins and brother married submissive women, he married a fairly aggressive American. I think he takes my comments as orders versus just "Why don't we." I'll have to try to remember that. But thank you for the advice, comments and book reco. Sue

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#138050 - 01/22/08 06:25 PM Re: One more thing [Re: sues]
humlan Offline


Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 1341
Loc: Sweden
Sues..just a thought..of course you can and should do things without your husband when he doesn´t want to do something. But, sometimes you might kinda want to do something with him..for a special reason..like maybe seeing that Russell Crowe film together..and it makes you tired and sad that he puts everything into little boxes (like "chick flick". I mean..actually..seriously..what IS a "chickflick"?.. Maybe you sort of hoped that you and your husband would "share" things together..to some extent. You mentioned that he spent almost the whole day in bed, watching TV.. hmmm....????

I am divorced after 32yrs of marriage and 5 kids. I divorced my husband in 2000. I am doing ok today. Two of my adult kids have had a rough time that probably started because of the divorce. I found this VERY difficult as I didn´t have this "safe place" (BWS forum) to go to then. Nobody warned me that my kids would have problems of the sort they had. My kids understood why I was divorcing their father..HOWEVER..today I can see that perhaps their rough time was necessary for them personally. My 2 kids are still in therapy..but we are processing together..and learning each in our way. I think the whole divorce thing was necessary for them..for me..maybe even for my former husband.

I am not expressing myself very well..but maybe you get the gist of what I am saying?
_________________________
"some sacred place.."

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#138051 - 01/23/08 02:25 AM Re: One more thing [Re: humlan]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
Princess...I agree with what you are saying...Sues..you're going to have to learn to change how you give him power for this to change. You can't make HIM change, but YOU can. Good luck.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#138052 - 01/23/08 01:34 PM Re: Humlan's comment [Re: Dee]
sues Offline


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 24
I would love to do things with my husband, but every time I "invite" him to do something, he says no 99% of the time. That's why I feel like I need to do things on my own now. If he doesn't want to come, then it doesn't mean I can't go. I will keep trying. It's just that I'm a do-er, not a sit-back-and-watch type person. Sue

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#138053 - 01/23/08 08:10 PM Re: Humlan's comment [Re: sues]
humlan Offline


Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 1341
Loc: Sweden
Sue, you see..this bothers me..there is a sadness (?) there that you don´t share so much together..I just kinda feel that you should think about this. Of course you do things on your own..but is that the way you want your marriage relationship to be? I am just lifting this to the surface..nothing else. Maybe if you don´t share, you can just as well be on your own and have more time for those that DO want to share with you? hmmm..

Thinking of you very often..you are in a tough place right now..but I am sure you´ll find yourself a way out of all your questions and thoughts..
_________________________
"some sacred place.."

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#138054 - 01/23/08 09:34 PM Re: Humlan's comment [Re: humlan]
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
Sue, I realize you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink...
Sounds like hubby is that horse. I was going to suggest you offer to do things with him, his kind of things, men things but it sounds like he doesn't do anything!! Still you might try really hard to find out what he use to like or stil does, bite the bullet and do them with him. Yes, by all means do things alone as well or with a girlfriend. Some men are impossible to get moving but you need to be able to say honestly, you tried. Then if things seem hopeless, well, there are other options...


Edited by chatty lady (01/23/08 09:36 PM)
_________________________
Take a peek at my BLOG:

http://charleen-micheles.blogspot.com/


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#138055 - 01/24/08 02:57 AM Re: Humlan's comment [Re: chatty lady]
Dee Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 2561
Loc: Alabama
My SIL's husband is a couch potato and complains about everything but doesn't do anything to fix them...finally, she had enough and went off on this guy like there was no tomorrow. I mean she blew up (not physically) but let me tell you after she was finished with him he made a doctor's appointment to get his foot worked on and doesn't complain like he did. I'm not sure yet if she's pried him away from the remote control but it made her feel better getting everything off her chest and letting him know what a jerk she thought he was being.
_________________________
Dee
"They will be able to say that she stood in the storm and when the wind did not blow her away....and surely it has not.....she adjusted her sails" - Elizabeth Edwards

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#138056 - 01/24/08 02:03 PM Re: Humlan's comment [Re: Dee]
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
What did you do together before you married?
_________________________
Founder Emeritus of Boomer Women Speak and the National Association of Baby Boomer Women.
www.nabbw.com
www.boomerwomenspeak.com


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#138057 - 01/24/08 04:51 PM Re: Humlan's comment
humlan Offline


Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 1341
Loc: Sweden
Sues..you have some very positive ladies here..giving you ideas..and their lives work for them in different forms..

Thinking of you, sweetheart..so much!!!!
_________________________
"some sacred place.."

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#138058 - 01/25/08 02:54 PM What we did before [Re: humlan]
sues Offline


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 24
I am such a do-er. I did and continue to do all kinds of things. I horseback ride, run, play the drums and am working on a book as well as working and being home for the kids. He plays tennis, watches a ton of TV as I said and loves politics. So when I was trying to find something for us to do together, I found a democratic group that met once a month. We went for a while, but the meetings changed to Tuesday which was his tennis night, so that fell through. I've asked him to go to movies with me, asked him to go to a gallery opening (he's an artist), but he never seems to want to do anything. So now I say "What do YOU want to do?" I told him I'd try anything once. I make all the social arrangements and this weekend we will have some new friends over to dinner. Before kids we went to see movies, went to dinner on weekends, normal stuff. Then, you know, when the kids are young you're always so, so busy, there's not a lot of couple time. Actually we are going to "talk" tonight. We've just been going through the motions this week. I'll see what he says, where he wants this to go, etc. It's never easy, is it? Sue

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#138059 - 01/25/08 04:05 PM Re: What we did before [Re: sues]
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
Glad to hear you are having new friends over. I hope they have a great marriage and he sees that.

One suggestion is to hang out with couples that you think have healthy marriages. That helps. Hang with men and women who respect one another.

I just said a little prayer that you are both honest with your cmmunication when you have your talk. Remember, you once adored him. Go back to that feeling before your discussion and perhaps you will be able to speak in love instead of frustration. A positive tone of voice helps.

Sending healing thoughts your way.
_________________________
Founder Emeritus of Boomer Women Speak and the National Association of Baby Boomer Women.
www.nabbw.com
www.boomerwomenspeak.com


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#138060 - 01/25/08 06:37 PM Re: What we did before
Casey Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
It sounds like there's a lot going on. I, too, send my prayers for heartfelt and honest communication. I also second the recommendation for the book.

Latino men may have a different slant than others, particularly depending on how they were raised. We have friends where the man is a Latino married to a fairly independent non-Latino woman. They bickered so much that at times I would leave the room after explaining how it really bothered me. They've pretty much stopped doing it around me, which is a relief! I think their marriage has also calmed down as well.
_________________________
Casey Dawes
Wise Woman Shining
Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.

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#138061 - 01/25/08 08:31 PM Re: What we did before [Re: Casey]
Di Offline
Member

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 2798
Loc: NM, transplant from NJ
Sues....if I may say this. Since children are involved, I say DON'T DO IT! It messes their whole life up!!

I am a stepmother of three children...they are adults. (Please see my post under Step-parenting about being "jilted") You never know if, later on, you remarry. Then you have to deal with the junk...who do the kids decide to see on holidays, birthdays, special occasions? ONE parent will get slighted...and hurt.

BELIEVE me when I say it's horrible! And my DH and his X had a good divorce over 24 years ago! But as the kids get older, then there's grandkids. Then the kids get to feeling badly (or not) if once parent is invited and another is not.

It seems you are involved in much...if you can live with your OWN happiness, not having to depend on HIM for your happiness, stay to help your kids thru life. It's NOT a good thing for them, even as they get older. They are effected their ENTIRE lives ie: engagements, showers, weddings etc....then down the family tree it goes.

My goal is to help save any family I can of the devastating effects of divorce. NO ONE handles it well, even if you "think" they do. I feel so badly that my step-kids do not have their parents together. I've even been bold enough to say that, if I die before my DH, I'd love to see them remarry JUST so the kids can have a "normal" family life again.

Just my three cents for what they are worth!

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#138062 - 01/29/08 07:50 PM The talk
sues Offline


Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 24
We actually had a great talk the other night. Very honest. I brought up separation just to ask "Is this something you want to consider?" He said "Absolutely not. Not now with the kids being so young." He seems to want to make it all work and I do realize that I need to change too. I am going to really take a look at myself, the situation and him and see what I need to do. BUT, I am going to continue making myself happy!

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#138063 - 01/29/08 07:54 PM Re: The talk [Re: sues]
ladyjane Offline


Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 1761
Loc: Southern Maine, USA
Well, Sue, at least you had "the talk" and found out his feelings. I say...sure, take a look inward and see what's going on deep inside of you and YES, most definitely, keep making yourself happy. It does no one any good if you feel stuck or unfulfilled. Good for you!
_________________________
If we couldn't laugh we would all go insane ~ Jimmy Buffett

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#138065 - 02/10/08 07:03 PM Re: The talk [Re: ]
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
Sue, any update? Curious to see if things have improved since your honest communication session. Let us hear from you.
_________________________
Founder Emeritus of Boomer Women Speak and the National Association of Baby Boomer Women.
www.nabbw.com
www.boomerwomenspeak.com


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#138066 - 03/08/08 08:29 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: sues]
HappyWednesday Offline


Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 16
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Hello sues,
Divorce is never easy with children involved. In order for you to be the best person you can be as well as the best mom, it is important to be truthful with yourself.

When I divorced 12 years ago, my children were the same ages as your children. Once divorced, I did everything I could to grow in all areas of my life- body, mind and spirit for myself and my children. Today my daughter is 27 years old and a Doctor of Audiology and my son graduated from Bentley College in Boston and is very successful. I am a proud mom. As for me, I have the opportunity to give back and work with women all over the world before, during and after divorce.
_________________________
Author, Radio Personality, Speaker
Business/Personal Coach- specializing in divorce and Cert. Laughter Leader

www.FreshStartAfterDivorce.com
jw@joanwinberg.com

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#138067 - 03/08/08 10:16 PM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: HappyWednesday]
Edelweiss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
I just checked out your site Happy Wednesday. It's very well done, and I'm sure it's supportive for the ladies contemplating divorce. And bravo for raising your children to become such successful adults.
Hope to see you more around here.
Hannelore

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#138068 - 03/09/08 03:01 AM Re: Thinking about it - what are the pitfalls? [Re: Edelweiss]
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
Hi hi, Happy Wednesday such great advice. Glad to meet and welcome you to our home of wonderful women.
_________________________
Take a peek at my BLOG:

http://charleen-micheles.blogspot.com/


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