Julie, thats beautiful <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

One of my favorite writers is Philip Yancey - when I have trouble sorting out faith, church, etc. I liked to read his books - he has a way of writing that just sorts it all out for me, because he's "been there, thought that, felt it"...........

Teri,
I agree with you that faith isn't a religion, it's a relationship. That's what was missing in my faith as a child. I didn't have a relationship with Jesus.

Now I do and I can't quite imagine what my life would be like without that relationship. That is where I draw my strength for every single day of my life. Jesus *jazzes* me! Corny, but true!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My faith goes beyond religion. Religion is earth-bound, part of the fabric but definitely not the whole cloth. Everything that ever is, was or will be, throughout time or space or energy, is related and intertwined.

If your religion makes you a better, more loving and caring person, then this is good, a positive influence on the energy of the universe. If your religion narrows your mind or your heart, then that's bad. Exclusion -- anyone who says "my thread is better than your thread" -- ignores the beautiful interplay of threads that make up the garment.

[QUOTE] "my thread is better than your thread"

You said it just right Meredithbead. That's what bugs me most at the moment - some church people I know claiming to have the "right" approach to christianity and creating divisions amongst people. I believe in the inclusive love and forgiveness of God - hey, He even loves ME.

Evie, thanks for the tip, I've been meaning to get hold of some books by Yancy but haven't found any through my usual sources - pretty poor excuse coming from a librarian, I know - I will try a bit harder to find them.

Yes, Meredith, I also agree with what you say. If religion creates disunity, then there's no need for religion -- it isn't serving its purpose. Having faith in or a relationship with Jesus seems to be a beginning, not an ending, toward understanding what God wants, something that gets you grounded and provides a point where you turn for guidance. To covenant with Jesus should imply following his example in deeds, not just in words. It's important also to recognize that Moslems do the same with Mohammad, Buddhists with Buddha, and so on for the sincere followers in all the religions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DJ:
<strong> Having faith in or a relationship with Jesus seems to be a beginning, not an ending, toward understanding what God wants, something that gets you grounded and provides a point where you turn for guidance. .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">DJ, couldn't agree more about a God providing a point to turn for guidance!

Seek Him first and then everything else follows...

I crammed a lot of activity into my Sunday yesterday) - gardening, grooming the dog, ironing, food shopping,and got the boys organised to stay home and babysit while hubby and I went to the evening service, first time in quite a while...was looking forward to a worshipful end to a good day...but I find that the whole church is in worse turmoil than i realised over the gay ordination issue, the minister about to be tossed out...people leaving...in a way i think that staying AWAY from church has been strangely protective of my belief - although I miss my peer group (they are the ones walking out and going to other churches. We live in a bible belt and there are plenty to chose from). I have been so caught up with the mundane business of living that i haven't kept in contact as i should - need some wisdom from the elders of this tribe - wondering what to do - in this situation everyone thinks they are "right". I begin to wonder if it matters at all - aren't the relationships being lost more important than theology? Or is it really all about power and control (the cynic in me says yes).

Julie, I think religion has far less to do with maintaining a relationship with any kind of god than it does with stumbling around looking for a personally acceptable set of parameters within which to navigate that relationship.

I don't know if I put that very well, but I read an analagy in a book on Buddhism that was very helpful to me. The writer spoke of religion being just one raft you might use on a larger journey. You might use a raft to cross a river you come to but wouldn't it be silly to try to cart that raft with you over dry land once you've successfully crossed the rough waters? That raft would, in fact, become a hindrance then, rather than a help.

So, at different stages of your spiritual life you are going to find a variety of craft to help you on your travels. Don't be afraid to leave one behind when it no longer aids your journey.

Garrie,I hear what you are saying and for years I have known NOT to say certain things in discussion groups because they wouldn't fit the "personally acceptable set of parameters" - great phrase - other people were using to manage their belief...they weren't using the same raft as me but we were floating down the same stream. Right now I feel like I'm dog-paddling alone while eveyone else is jumping off a sinking ship! Nevertheless I have always found that God meets me at every turn in the journey with the strenghth and comfort I need. He is so immense that there will always be more of Him that I haven't discovered before that "fits" who I am and where I am at that time in my journey...

Julie,

Have you read a lot about different religions and belief systems? Maybe this is the time to explore. That doesn't necessarily mean to give up on your church, but perhaps it would be beneficial to view it from different perspectives. If it doesn't meet all of your religious needs, does it meet enough to make it worth your while? And if the problems are greater than the rewards, look inside yourself to figure out what is, and is not, important in a religious institution.