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#122318 - 06/28/07 06:54 PM When to put your foot down, or not…?
Edelweiss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
Two days ago my 86-year-old mother fell down a couple of stairs while leaving the dry cleaners. Thank God she didn't break anything, but her arm was scraped badly. There she lay, my poor Mom, and it took forever for her to get back up onto her feet. No one saw her to help her, which she later said she was glad of, because her wig flew off as well. She then immediately drove to our house, (Yes, she still drives) and Hubby and I doctored her wounds. I insisted she stay just in case she got a little shock from the fall.

My Mom is getting more wobbly from day to day. What peeves me is there is help for her. She has a fantastic insurance that covers everything including someone that would drive her, or at least accompany her to doctors, shopping, etc.

My mother is so afraid of losing her independence, which I can understand of course, but the truth is she needs help. Every time I talk to her about this, she gets upset and short of breath. I once read somewhere that one of the hardest things for the elderly is to recognize their own limitations, and in that case the adult children have to take charge. (She gave me power of attorney a long time ago).

I'm so torn about this. On one hand I respect my Mother's wishes and don't want to control her, but on the other hand I feel she is being stubborn and irrational. She has her senior moments as well, and they seem to be getting more frequent.

If she should break a hip or worse, I'm afraid I'll never forgive myself for not taking responsibility. My brother says if it upsets her when I suggest that she get more help, then I should let it be. Is he right? Has anyone else been in this predicament as well?

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#122319 - 06/28/07 07:52 PM Re: When to put your foot down, or not…? [Re: Edelweiss]
Lola Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 3703
Loc: London UK
Oh, dear. How is your Mom now, Hannelore? Hope the scrapes heal well and for the arm not to be too bruised as a result. My experience is only as far as my relationship with my elderly friends go. And, they CAN be stubborn! And when they suffer or hurt themselves as a result of it, I usually use the "incident" as something to fall back on. Perhaps, you can use the fall in a similar way. Carpe diem, in that there is no better time, I guess, to discuss with your Mom how fraught you are with worry about her. Would your Mom be agreeable if you could find someone who, more or less, share same interests with her? Perhaps, a compromise as well as to occasions when she would need a companion? Someone who could be around for her in short spells? A little at a time until she gets used to the idea of someone shadowing her. Suggest a trial run of a few days. That way, it would not sound so permanent and your Mom would not feel too threatened by the loss of independence. Who knows? She might eventually get used to the idea.
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#122320 - 06/28/07 08:35 PM Re: When to put your foot down, or not…? [Re: Lola]
Mountain Ash Offline
Member

Registered: 12/30/05
Posts: 3027
The theorist Erikson talks about 8 stages we live through.
Perceiving that we are no longer able...to walk to cook to function is like a little death for some older people.
Sometimes a doctor or minister can talk the older person into receiving help.. I looked my notes in case you had not read Erikson.
Hope truly you Mother keeps well.
...........................

Erikson felt that much of life is preparing for the middle adulthood stage and the last stage is recovering from it. Perhaps that is because as older adults we can often look back on our lives with happiness and are content, feeling fulfilled with a deep sense that life has meaning and we've made a contribution to life, a feeling Erikson calls integrity. Our strengt h comes from a wisdom that the world is very large and we now have a detached concern for the whole of life, accepting death as the completion of life.

On the other hand, some adults may reach this stage and despair at their experiences and perceived failures. They may fear death as they struggle to find a purpose to their lives, wondering "Was the trip worth it?" Alternatively, they may feel they have all the answers (not unlike going back to adolescence) and end with a strong dogmatism that only their view has been correct.

The significant relationship is with all of mankind—"my-kind."
Mountain ash

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#122321 - 06/28/07 08:52 PM Re: When to put your foot down, or not…? [Re: Lola]
Eagle Heart Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 4876
Loc: Canada
Oh Hannelore, can I relate! We went through much the same sort of thing with my Mom after Dad died. She did allow us to move her out of the house (3 hours away) and into an apartment right above my brother's apartment. She loved it there, but quickly became a recluse and it took a lot of coaxing to get her to go out at all. But we spent a lot of time there, so she was rarely alone. Like your Mom, she was eligible for lots of in-home care, but refused to let us bring anyone in. It was heartbreaking to watch her struggle, and as time went on, we just stepped in and did all of her grocery shopping, most of her cooking and housework. It was difficult to know where to draw the line, if we were doing too much for her (though she definitely wanted, appreciated and needed the help) or if we should have called for help. At the time, she was of sound mind, so we felt we needed to honour and respect her wishes.

It turns out that she was full of cancer. She had stubbornly refused to go get herself checked out, and probably had (and probably knew she had) the cancer for 2-3 years, yet never let on that she was sick or in any discomfort. She was so afraid of losing her independence that she begged me not to take her to the hospital. But I didn't listen to her, and took her in to emergency not even realizing how sick she really was, just wanting to get her checked out because she could barely walk.

Once she was admitted, she deteriorated very quickly. In hindsight, I wish I had listened to her and that we had stayed oblivious to the cancer, because as soon as she got in the hospital, she knew she'd never come back out, and she just gave up...some say it was a blessing in disguise that she went so quickly, but I KNOW she would have preferred to just stay home and enjoy living life at her own pace for whatever time she had left rather than living those last weeks out in that hospital environment.

I don't know what to suggest. On one hand, they do need help, on the other hand, it seems that once they begin to lose their freedom, they seem to give up, and I don't know if that hastens their demise or not...who can know the "what if's" when you can't go back and do it again another way. Certainly, if I could go back, I'd never take my Mom to the hospital, but would just let her live at home and call the in-home care to look after her for as long as possible. Hind sight is always 50-50.

I'm not much help. I like Lola's idea. Try having someone come in on a "trial" basis, for short periods of time, to help around the house. See how that goes, and promise her that if it doesn't work out for her, you'll cancel the visits.
_________________________
When you don't like a thing, change it.
If you can't change it, change the way you think about it.

(Maya Angelou)

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#122322 - 06/28/07 11:17 PM Re: When to put your foot down, or not…? [Re: Eagle Heart]
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
You might try telling your mom about (an imaginary) woman who is so sweet and blah, blah, and how she has no friends or family and so on. Tell her you and some of your friends are helping her and would she (your mom) like to be a part of this kind gesture and be a friend to this nice woman. Just say that she (your mom) would be the perfect companion for this woman and vice versa. How much fun having a girlfriend again to do things with could be. Make it a positive not like a health care/age issue. If she agrees, hire someone, tell them the plan and wholla, problem solved...Deep down inside she would probably relish having a companion around her. Bless your heart, you are such a good daughter.


Edited by chatty lady (06/28/07 11:21 PM)
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#122323 - 06/28/07 11:23 PM Re: When to put your foot down, or not…? [Re: chatty lady]
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
Hannelore, now is the time to talk to her about this. It's a good opportunity to let her hear your concerns. I think you should listen to yourself as opposed to your brother. He lives in the states, right? So maybe he hasn't seen her decline as you have.

Do you have a plan for the future? Does she want to do adult day care, retirement community, live with you, stay in her home forever...
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#122324 - 06/29/07 03:07 AM Re: When to put your foot down, or not…? [Re: Eagle Heart]
orchid Offline


Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3675
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Quote:

It turns out that she was full of cancer. She had stubbornly refused to go get herself checked out, and probably had (and probably knew she had) the cancer for 2-3 years, yet never let on that she was sick or in any discomfort. She was so afraid of losing her independence that she begged me not to take her to the hospital. But I didn't listen to her, and took her in to emergency not even realizing how sick she really was, just wanting to get her checked out because she could barely walk.

Once she was admitted, she deteriorated very quickly. In hindsight, I wish I had listened to her and that we had stayed oblivious to the cancer, because as soon as she got in the hospital, she knew she'd never come back out, and she just gave up...some say it was a blessing in disguise that she went so quickly, but I KNOW she would have preferred to just stay home and enjoy living life at her own pace for whatever time she had left rather than living those last weeks out in that hospital environment.

I don't know what to suggest. On one hand, they do need help, on the other hand, it seems that once they begin to lose their freedom, they seem to give up, and I don't know if that hastens their demise or not...who can know the "what if's" when you can't go back and do it again another way. Certainly, if I could go back, I'd never take my Mom to the hospital, but would just let her live at home and call the in-home care to look after her for as long as possible. Hind sight is always 50-50.

I'm not much help. I like Lola's idea. Try having someone come in on a "trial" basis, for short periods of time, to help around the house. See how that goes, and promise her that if it doesn't work out for her, you'll cancel the visits.




It would be wise at least, she was either living with you in same building or in a semi-independent facility with her own 1 level suite (with elevator) where there is a nurse on call right there for all the residents.

I'm actually abit squeamish she still drives. Have you watched her drive and where does she tend to go..no more than 10 kms. on quiet roads?

My parents are still on their own together. But can see given personality (espec. mother), how difficult this will become.

My partner's mother ended up in her present nursing home..because she fell in her independent apartment suite and no one knew. My partner was out of town cycling for wks. and I was working full-time in the suburbs. She couldn't get up. She lay there for 2 days. Phone was less than 3 ft. away. Yes, they had to clean up the place....well, you can imagine. Ambulance came etc....

She lost over 10 lbs. Had a minor stroke ...which weakened her even more.

Did she resist going? No, this event probably was the signal for her.

It is a good care facility attached physically to a teaching hospital. 5 kms. away from us.

And Eagle, how frustrating that was when your mother resisted seeing doctor for diagnosis. I don't think it will happen to my parents.....they have absolutely no choice, if they resisted a diagnosis.they have a daughter who is a physician. They listen willingly and carefully to whatever she tells them, as a 2nd opinion. They tend ask alot of questions anyways...since my sister can only explain medical things in English.

Does your mom engage in healthy habits already? If she does, then she cares for her health and MAYBE a tad easier to persuade her for her own safety and health.

I believe my partnter's mother made the transition bit by bit (she went from walking, to walker (after falling and tripping over dog leash with her dog several times. She ended up with bruises on her face. It looked as if someone beat her up)...then to wheelchair.

She did not resist each change..it does help when she was eating and cooking very healthily for about 15 years before she deteroriated alot. She cared about her safety. But she didn't know how to drive. So no worries on that.
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#122325 - 06/29/07 07:26 AM Re: When to put your foot down, or not…? [Re: orchid]
Edelweiss Offline
Member

Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with me on this. After reading these comments, I've decided to go by own instincts.

Yes Dotsie, my brother lives near Boston, and can't really judge the situation. Eagle Heart reminded me that the quality of life is more important than the length. If my mother feels stressed because I take some of her "freedom" away, maybe I should just accept that she needs this freedom more then the security. But Orchid's story made me think, so I'll do as Lola and Chatty suggested, and that is find her a companion that she likes, and little by little get her used to having someone there to help her along.

Mountain Ash, I never have read anything from the theorist Erikson. What a lot of wisdom in just a few words. I could relate to the fact that my Mom seems to be going back to adolescence with a strong dogmatism. Thanks so much for posting this.

If I could I would have her move in with us, but then my marriage would most likely end; yup…that same old problem. But I'm being realistic here; I think most marriages would not want an in-law living with them, so I guess we aren't any exception.

Now onward to finding a suitable companion. Knowing my Mom, she would love a man supporting her arm. Of course it helps if he has wide shoulders, a charming smile, and can make her laugh. She's still a young woman in an old body. It's hard to see this happening.
If I should find a couple of dozen of such male samples, I can forward them on to anyone else who is interested. ;-)

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#122326 - 06/29/07 10:03 PM Re: When to put your foot down, or not…? [Re: Edelweiss]
chatty lady Offline
Writer

Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 20267
Loc: Nevada
As my 87 year old mother wrote while on her vacation in and around Palermo, Italy. A very handsome gentleman asked her out to dinner, they went to dinner and dancing. When she got back to her hotel, my Aunt, moms sister, shes 89...Said shame on her! Mom said, "I ain't dead yet sister. The mind is willing but the body, doubtful, very doubtful" They fell out laughing.

Hannelore a woman of any age feels delighted in the company of an attentive man.


Edited by chatty lady (06/29/07 10:05 PM)
_________________________
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#122327 - 07/01/07 04:23 PM Re: When to put your foot down, or not…? [Re: chatty lady]
Dotsie Offline
Founder

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
Hannelore, be sure to let your mom have a say in who this companion is. I think it will be more successful if she has a little input. Let's just say I speak from experience. Sigh...
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