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#109107 - 02/25/07 09:03 PM
Re: What about God?
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
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Gimster interesting post.
I had a very strict Catholic upbringing;-- nuns, Sunday School, and confession every Saturday. I was taught, God is everywhere and in every living thing. That part of my belief is still installed in me.
I'm in awe of this world and the millions of kinds of inhabitants that share it with me.
When I watch my grandchild study a pebble on the street, I think how brilliant the plan is; getting to know our surroundings from the little things to the big things. I can't fathom that nature and all the things happening are just a coincidence or a cosmic accident.
I believe in God. I also believe that he is beyond our comprehension. I believe we should do good and no harm. This belief is a part of instinct as well, and if one wilfully goes against it, I can not believe that that is in God's plan.
Evil obviously exists, but I don't believe in the devil or hell. I'm not sure about reincarnation. It sort of makes sense to me to think that an evil person may be born again, maybe as a walrus, scrapping his belly along a stony shoreline. I don't know…but I know one thing…I ain't taking any chances!
Many ladies here pray for one another and for others that are living in hard times. I pray as well, but have to admit I have a problem believing that my prayer will help another person, who I don't know, or am not even informed as to why this person needs prayer.
I do believe in positive thoughts. So I guess that is a form of prayer. When I pray, I lay my own soul and life in God's hands; so be it.
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#109108 - 02/26/07 04:56 AM
Re: What about God?
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Gimster, I believe that God is a being of "person" by His own description, meaning to me He is of the male sex yet without procreation or the need for sexual contact. Not to mean he is neither male or female, just that he refers to Himself in the male gender.
I believe He is three entities in one, the three equal parts being God-the Father, God-the Son and God-the Holy Spirit. I think it takes all three persons of the Godhead to be "God", that he/they are the creator and husbandman of all creation, including mankind.
I think that in the beginning of time, God was and is and always will be and that a Ruling Angel existed in God's realm with him, the chief musician, and decided he wanted to no longer serve God but to BE God and started a rebellion. God kicked him out of his realm along with the rest of the rebellious angels and thus Satan and his cohorts (demons).
I literally saw Heaven and Hell and therefore believe with all my life that both exist and I don't want to go to the place with the Iron Gates. If you've ever been hopelessly depressed and suicidal, filled with self loathing..that's the feeling I got from the other end of the tunnel, a feeling that it never will end for all eternity.
I believe that love is a verb and that God IS love. I believe God speaks to His children in many forms. Once I was attending a church in Monroe, LA with my 3 daughters. They were involved in a building program and soliciting money from the members. I stood in the lobby one evening ready to go into a women's meeting when God verbally spoke to me and said to leave and never return. I left.
Not much later I found that the pastor and his wife were stealing the money and bought a new home for themselves then the members started burning boats and jeans and books and anything that would "come between them and God."
I love God and his Son and the Holy Spirit with all of my being and couldn't exist for one day without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and the mindfulness of his presence. I trust HS to guide me and rebuke me and comfort me and lead me the way I'm supposed to go and to help me learn to treat everyone the way He wants me to and I make so many mistakes and am so sorry for it.
I believe God is a personal God and knows even when we lose a hair or break a nail. He loves us that much. He sent God the Son to be born as a baby from a woman's womb so that God the Father could experience in all ways what it is like to be human and to feel and to hurt and to rejoice and the whole spectrum of sensual living in this world.
My belief is that there is sin in the world, but that God doesn't totem pole sin or rank it in importance. I think the biggest sin of all is to try to sanction that sin and blatantly spit in the face of God or deny His existence or the existence of sin.
I also believe the Bible is God's word to us and that it is infallable and complete from Genesis to Revelation, and that we haven't even begun to tap into the power and love and grace in its pages. I believe it is God speaking to us.
I believe that God inhabits or indwells the praises of His people meaning that He actually in spirit form fills up the person with the Holy Spirit during those times of worship, loving, forgiving, cleansing and empowering. I don't believe it has to be trumped up or induced by chanting inane phrases or banal songs on your feet for 15 minutes until there is a breakthrough. My feeling is that the HS is always there in spirit and in truth to guide and fill us with his presence.
From what I've experienced in my own life and the lives of others to include the death of my husband which I was present for, I've no doubt there is an afterlife that lasts with no end. From what I've seen and witnessed, I agree with Hannelore, I'm NOT taking any chances of not making it to Heaven and I don't want to be responsible for not telling my children and grandchildren and any other members of my family how good it is to be one of God's own and be obedient to Him.
If I err in this life, I hope it is that I love too much or give too much and not that I wasn't obedient or respectful of the one I believe created me. My greatest fear--is that I will dishonor God and not fulfil my purpose for being alive.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109109 - 02/26/07 06:14 AM
Re: What about God?
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 09/26/04
Posts: 3910
Loc: Alabama
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I believe God talks to me when I "think" to do right and good. I believe the devil talks to me when I "think" to do otherwise.
Most Days God wins.
chick
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chick
~ Here is the test to find whether your mission on Earth is finished: if you're alive, it isn't ~
~ Prayer is the most we can do for another human being ~
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#109110 - 02/26/07 03:23 PM
Re: What about God?
[Re: gims]
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Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 2
Loc: GA
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As a young child, I grew up with teachings of Jesus long before I understood God. My cousins and I use to think of thunderstorms as God telling us He was mad with His children. My neighbor childhood friends and I cared about each other like brothers and sisters as God's children.
It would be a few years later and miles from our family support system that my family hit a rocky road in their life. These became the years when I knew God's presence. I prayed, He let me know that He was with me.
Our journey has continued through the ordinary and the milestones of living.
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Health, Harmony, & Beauty
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#109111 - 02/26/07 07:19 PM
Re: What about God?
[Re: AnneS]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Ladies, sorry my reply was so long. That's just the way my mind works. I'm a type A. Again, sorry. Could have been the Reader's Digest and been just as poignant or meaningful.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109113 - 02/28/07 02:02 AM
I believe...Re: What about God?
[Re: jabber]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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I believe along the same lines as some of you. These are things I was taught.
I guess my query is more in wanting to know how you see God - not as a man-ish figure sitting on a throne in a palacial setting, right?
Is he energy to you?
Does he have form to you? Are you a part of him, in human form?
Is he everywhere, including being parts of you?
Can you put a description on him in a way that we will understand?
I sit here thinking "what is God?", not what he does and can do, but what is he?
If you create a mental image of him for yourself, would you be able to share that image with us in words?
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#109114 - 02/28/07 05:59 AM
I believe...Re: What about God?
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Wow! I've been trying to conjur up an image of God. Truth is, I rarely think about God in a form. When I do, its more like He just IS. I can't touch Him or I would die. I can't look at His face or it would be too much for me. My mind can't wrap around his image but He says we (mankind) are made in His image.
In the Bible Moses saw God as a burning bush and he had to take his sandals off and was nearly blinded. I don't think we need to know what God looks like, but I "see" Him in the kindness of others and in the lives of the martyrs. The other day I got news of a minister who was run over by a steam roller starting at his feet and going up to his head while his wife and small son were forced to watch. I see God in sacrifice and in love and things like that.
Now, Jesus, on the other hand is quite another story. I see Jesus as God in the flesh so God/Jesus was first of all Jewish, not the watered down version of Judaism today but a pure middle eastern Jew, born to a virgin with God the father as his sire. I see a baby honored by the Magi, a young man wise beyond his years teaching in the temple, I see someone so gentle yet strong with eyes that can look deep into your soul and whose touch relays healing and whose voice would send chills to the depth of your being.
When I was a little girl, I would hold Jesus' hand and go for walks with Him. He has a sense of humor and loves a good party or gathering of people.
I don't think He is the sickly pallid looking figure I've seen so often in paintings.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109115 - 02/28/07 03:38 PM
Strength, energy, help...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 10032
Loc: New York State
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God is spirit, more than anything. I couldn't get through a day, if I didn't cling to Him. Yell, I carry a mental image. He's handsome; has long hair, and a full-beard; wears a robe and sandals. Most of time God the Son is praying in front of a large rock to God the Father. The Holy Spirit is like an aura of warmth and security. Sometimes I picture my arms around His neck. Sometimes I'm reaching for the hem of His garment. Sometimes He's holding me in His arms. I dream of the day He'll take me to join Him. And there'll be no more pain, no more hurt, no more separation from those I love. I'll have a new body and all who've gone before me will have new bodies; yet, we'll recognize each other. I couldn't tolerate life, if I didn't believe in GOD: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost!!! Ciao for now,  P.S. God is everywhere; He's everything. He's part of everyone. God is in the eyes of other people. He's in their smiles. He's in their kind words. He's in their hugs. God is in the warm breezes. He's in the birds. He's in all plant life and animal life. He's in all life. He's in the wind, rain, sunlight, rainbow, lightning, etc., etc.
Edited by bonnierose333 (02/28/07 03:43 PM)
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#109117 - 02/28/07 04:59 PM
Re: Strength, energy, help...
[Re: jabber]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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I believe that God/dess is a spirit -- neither male nor female -- but the energy of universal, unconditional love. Because I was raised Unitarian Universalist for the first 12 or so years of my life, their teachings have impacted my beliefs. One of the most difficult things for me to wrap my head around is the trinity concept, so I just accept that it works for some people.
I feel very in touch with my God/dess.
I don't read the Bible literally, because of how I was raised and the study that I have been doing over the last few years. But I accept that some people do read the Bible literally.
Like Bonnie, I believe God/dess is in all of us and outside of all of us. S/he is our ultimate connection with each other and when we can see God/dess in each other then we can truly communicate and resonate with each other.
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109119 - 02/28/07 10:25 PM
Re: Strength, energy, help...
[Re: ]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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how i see the god/ess if i have to think of a mental image is in terms of a large oval opel about 2 feet by one foot wide. As opels are its full of changing and dazzling couler, just like an opel in the sunlight. This is turn is surrounded by a bigger circle of anything from a few feet to floor to celing size and six foot wide, of a translucient indigo purpile (like the spectrum of light thats within clubs, the lazer lights only so vivid and clear) Within the bigger circle of indigo energy thats weer you feel the full force of the uplifting loving almost timeless security that belongs with it. The closer you are to the opel spare the stronger it's you get to feel it. if you weer in the worst negative mood in the world it would still override and uplift you to a more butifull place. I have seen such things and they have been the purest type of energy i have felt. Due to my experinces and i have yet to feel or see anything more butifull then i logically assume that this is what god/ess looks and feels like only in much greater quantities that what i have just described.
If i had to put an image to that devine energy then thats what it looks like to me. (anyone seen any latly?)
The energy is neither male or female to me but both with all the combinasions in between. Thats how it feels to me in conjunction to the feeling of wellbeing.
Questions get answered, more importantly novel solusions to problems seem transparent and like a "oh of course" mental feeling, higher though aint a problem, when within that light. i have even viewed stuff i have dune that has been preety wrong but within that energy then i view my own mistakes and wrongdowings with understanding and compasion.
I could esily say god is that type of loving energy or the sum of all the parts of that energy and it's totality is what we refaire to as godess and leave it at their but i feel their a bit more to it.
I still say that above is true but adistionally it also has it's own inteligences over and above it's loving nature or type of inteligences. It's more a far sighted inteligences than just a loving nature.
It's nature is love; compasion; forgivness to such a degree that as humans we only dream about.... or on our best moment on our best experiences of our best day at the hight of our compasion it's that plus plus 1000 fould . It's inteligences is also loving compasionate forgiving etc. but more much more in the inteligent stackes. I think i am trying to seperate the loving feeling from the loving intent or mind becouse to me it's two features of the same thing.
Are you a part of him, in human form? Is he everywhere, including being parts of you?
Yes i am part of this in humaine form along with all other things, animals, plants, rocks, all of space and time. For me it is this likness to that energy that "we have been created in the image of" not the physical shape of my being. The creative aspect of my self and all sentient beings would be also mirror the creative aspect of the devine energy. This would be a varient or would be diffrent from a rock, the rock is still the same energy but without the ability to create and direct that we have.
Our thoughts create a foorprint or a residue either loving etc. or it's oppisite. Hence adding to the body of god as a whole relative to all it's other parts. Our actions do the same type of thing but amplified becouse in this plane actions have a stronger force or residue than thoughts. We also have a bigger responcibilite over our actions than our thoughts becouse they are willfill. Thoughts can be all over the place and not under our control. So as much as on this plane of living it's ok that our thoughts are as they are (reduce the guilt about them) but we are to a lesser degree dutie bound to bring into aline-ment our thoughts or in other words our mental actions becouse they still contribute to the ovrall energy outputt of us as people.
Thats about as best as i can or am willing to open my hart and mind about this topic at the minuet in such a public way.
GYMSTER i love your line of thinking and sequinces of questions over this topic. I don't recall reading what your answere are to the questions. Have i missed them or are you in the process of expanding your thinking and just thought you would sample the oppinions of those around you to see if it would furtheir your own experinces?
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109120 - 02/28/07 10:41 PM
Re: Strength, energy, help...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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oh i wasent born into that type of religouse thinking. I was born into a cristion familie that took very very seriously its relasionship to god. i really benifited from it. As i grow i noticed that their was sizable contridictions in the teachings as they weer wrriten down and the people that spearheaded or reprisented the religion. I could not reconsile it, i also am in direct contridiction to scrpture teachings with eliments of my life and living. I put a lot of thought and feeling into the delema for a couple of years then took to explorring other religions....i piced together my experinces of spirituality, religions, life experinces and what i have experinced in terms of spiritual episodes found other like minded people and have never been happier. When i view my ch8ildhood christianity in the contect of global religions, spirituality and thought for me now, it's another pathway and set of rules to bring you closer to god...but just not my way. It's just ironic becouse as a child i didn't relize how many other religions weer out their and everything else seemed weired now nuthing seems more weired than anyother hart felt belife....gotta respect all the diffrent pathways was what i concluded  i forgott you had asked that bit gymster celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109121 - 02/28/07 10:43 PM
Re: Strength, energy, help...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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CASEY
if i goggled Unitarian Universalist will i find out more informasion on that religion or can you give a brife summery, it sounds intrestting
celtic
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109122 - 03/01/07 01:51 AM
Re: Strength, energy, help... *DELETED*
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Post deleted by NewLeaf
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Aarikja Ann
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#109123 - 03/01/07 02:00 AM
Re: Strength, energy, help...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Hi Celtic, Yes, you would find information about Unitarian Universalist and I think you would feel very comfortable there! Here's the URL of their main site: www.uua.org.
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109124 - 03/01/07 02:03 AM
Re: Strength, energy, help...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Newleaf, If you hit reply rather than quick reply, you will see all the faces. I'm not sure what you are getting at about itchy ears and don't find any reference in my concordance (which, for those who don't know is like an index for the Bible). Can you explain what you mean? 
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109125 - 03/01/07 02:45 AM
Re: Strength, energy, help...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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. Cool, there they are! Thanks Casey, I love the smiley faces and didn't know how to access them. I knew you could choose one of them when you enter a new post, but didn't know how to choose one of them in the body of the text.
I like you Casey. I can't begin to thank you enough for the letters you sent to Katie and how much your contact meant to her. You are a very nice person and I respect you.
I'm just conducting a little experiment of my own. I'll explain later about the question.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109126 - 03/01/07 04:53 AM
Re: Strength, energy, help...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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ok, I'm a moron...I hit delete and deleted my post instead of hitting a smiley face. If I could select one, it would be the one with red cheeks.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109129 - 03/01/07 04:43 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: jabber]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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casy
thanks i give it a look up so thanks for posting the link.
Bonnierose333
thats a nice bit of ryme at the end of your post, nicley put.
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109130 - 03/01/07 05:56 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Casey, in case I forgot to do so, I want to publicly thank you for writing to my Katie while she was away. Your letters meant a lot to her.
Thank you for your thoughtfulness and kindness. Katie seems to be doing fine and seems to have moved out of "Katie Land".
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Aarikja Ann
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#109131 - 03/01/07 07:10 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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I recently came across a phrase that I've been using almost on a daily basis, since. It has embossed itself on my conscious mind.
It made me stop and consider what God is (thus this thread). I thought long and hard about him and how I envision of him... and learned I had to address my need to even have a visual image of him. I, too, had a semi-childhood image - the big Daddy in the sky thing. After thinking quite a lot on the subject, I've come to these conclusions:
I believe God is in all things.
I believe God is in me, as I am in him; he is a part of me and I am a part of him.
I believe God is everywhere... this led me to thinking of him as an all encompassing entity (energy, if you will) and not in a confined form, of any kind. I don't think he has form, as we define it.
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#109132 - 03/01/07 07:28 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
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Gimster, your perception of God makes sense to me. It's like a universal perception of nature. I posted in another forum about the movie I saw last night. I couldn't stop thinking about it today. It also made me ponder about the injustice in this world, and how very lucky we are to have been born in countries that don't treat women worse than rats in a gutter. The hypocritical thing is these Moslems do everything in the name of God. I'm going to post the link here too. Hopefully you will all rent out this DVD. It's mind boggling...and it will make you feel gratitude in a big way. Link to movies site: Osama
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#109133 - 03/01/07 07:37 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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I saw the film, too, Hannelore, a year or so ago. I watched parts of it twice. I was so afraid she was going to get caught, especially when making her way through the streets. It made me kind of sick at my stomach. I need to check it out again...
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#109136 - 03/01/07 11:54 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: ]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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It also made me ponder about the injustice in this world, and how very lucky we are to have been born in countries that don't treat women worse than rats in a gutter.HANNILORES QUOTE
Did you cheek out the V-day thread that was running in current events, theirs a link to the web page and it's to do with stopping abouse and violences agenst all women.
Weather its in the name of god or not....or in the politices of a countrie or cultural ideals, this type of violence has to be stoped and it's the bussiness of all women everywear to try or do their wee bit to stop it....Their a whole univers of things that can be dune that takes a little of our time or a little effort but collectivly amounts to a whole lot.....(guess what my slant is lol)
its reallie hard to separae religion and politices in terms of what dictates treatment of women in a countrie...but yea i am also reallie glade to be in the countrie i am in with just "our shared" experinces of decriminasion.....Mostly our lives dont hing on it today...(most religions globally,in the past, have hurt or oppresed women or taken their lives in the name of god)
I might try and cheek out the movie. Dose it do or say more than just "this is the trouble thease set of women face" ?
(That type of movie is usefull in itself)
but i agree with ANN327.....this been a great thread for people to safly express their thoughts and ideas on god...and what is extra nice is the overall sensitivity and respect for everyone elses views, long may it continue.
celtic
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109138 - 03/02/07 05:17 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: ]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Anno, you are so right! God gets blamed for so many injustices all over the world, when all He ever really wants is for His children to be happy and healthy and to love Him and to be obedient to Him.
Let me pose an idea to you: If you were very evil, or had nothing on your mind but to kill as many people as possible, to destroy as much as possible of the earth and all its inhabitants, and to steal from them their happiness and joy and well-being and health. If you hated mankind just as much as God loves them, how would you go about it? How would you go about stealing from them, killing all of them and destroying all that God made?
Would you come down on them like an ogre, ugly and horrible and with so much force that they would be aware of you and hate you and be prepared for you and fight back?
OR, would you appear to them as an angel of light, all loving and all accepting...no revilement, no anger, nothing to be forgiven for because everything is relative to the individual and their circumstances, nothing but pure sweetness and light.
You'd catch them unaware and thinking you were "all that", when in all actuality you would be a wolf in sheep's clothing.
God gets the blame for His evil counterpart posing as the "good guy". Most of the time, the evil angel doesn't even get acknowledged. If God is just a spirit and permeates everything then Satan is a spirit also and permeates everything.
Every culture acknowledges the existence of good and evil. The Ying and the Yang, Shiva as opposed to Krisna, etc. I believe there is a hater of your soul and it isn't God.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109139 - 03/02/07 07:02 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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The movie, Osama, has won a number of international awards. The message conveys the frightening helplessness these women face in their daily lives. Because they are not allowed to work, if a woman becomes a widow, she is doomed to starvation. That's just one of the many unjust laws these women must fight for. But within their country they hardly have a chance; if caught, they are stoned to death.
WOW HANILORE that sounds like a powerfull movie, i get upset and the feeling of helplessness sets in whaching some movies so i get into a delema sometimes as to weather i should watch them or not. Put i got good stratigies to cope and do some good with those types of feelings ie Amnsetie international etc.
I know the IW Day post is running in current events and hopefullie the women on the forum can participate in a forum poetry contest if they want but their another post running in current events titled V-day, its a good thread and also whoever posted it put a link up to a web page about how to help put an end to sexule abouse/attack in childhood or adulthood.
Anyway we going way off track in this thread....some people weer descussing god and their personal interpritasions of it. Others were about to go off in tangents all of their own, in their own brand of evil. I rather not add to the tangents, it's been a good thread as it has been so far and sure will be, chat soon mate
love celtic
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109140 - 03/02/07 08:08 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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anyway back on track hopefullie.
gymster since it's your post and you have alreadie given your view. I know elsewear you wrote about an angel---and a hug.
Did that in anyway change how you viewed your spiritualitie as being diffrent in sorts from how it was as a child, just curiouse as to how you worked it out in your head and if its not to personal a question for you to share heer
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109141 - 03/02/07 08:34 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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celtic,
I don't think that particular incident changed my view on spirituality. I was already morphing into a more learned spiritual being, in contrast to the way I was as a child. I was "innocently" spiritual, as a young girl. By that I mean I was seeking, but following rules, rules set out by church and parents. On occasion, tho, I had several single spiritual experiences growing up. For instance, I was raised Souther Baptist and we had what was called youth rallies. I went to one, which was held in a chapel that was full to capacity - I would estimate close to 200 youths, ministers and parents were there for that particular rally. I was probably on the fourth or fifth right row from the front, and was very attentive during the sermonettes, songs and skits, but not overly moved. We all stood to have the closing prayer and, during that prayer, a feeling washed over me that was literally out of and not of this world. It was confirmation that I was in my right place with God. At the same time, I knew little of its magnitude.
Being older (when the angel hug occurred), I was in a more searching frame of mind. I was no longer bound by the Souther Baptist legalistic preachings I grew up under. I was, at that time, a member of an Assembly church.
I do not attend church, these days, because churches have become to much like businesses to me. Not that there aren't good and Godly people attending them - please, don't get me wrong.
I pray, mostly when my head hits my pillow. If I want a good prayer moment, tho, I have to get to bed before my DH gets to sleep - hard to concentrate when he's snoring in my ear!
All in all, I'd say my spiritual person, now, is equal in strength to the one I owned as a child. It just has more facets.
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#109142 - 03/02/07 09:03 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Before I step into how I believe, I want all to know that I am not contesting anything anyone has questioned or said. I don't even want to give satan equal time, but I want to share what I've come to believe about that spirit*. What I believe (which may change, if I'm moved to do so, at some later date): I no longer think of satan as a counterpart to God, although I was taught that way, growing up. His nature is counter, true, but to put him as God's counterpart is almost like giving him an equal status. (Remember, this is how I feel). I don't see that possible, as there is no equal to God. God is omnipotent, satan is not. God is omniscient, satan is not. God is omnipresent, satan is not. God is boundless, satan is not. God is in man, satan is not. Man does evil by way of satan's enfluence, but man has choice. I astericked *spirit, above, because I don't envision him as spirit in the same sense as I envision God. God is EVERYWHERE and in EVERYTHING... satan, on the other hand, can only go where he's invited. Why do bad things happen? Could it be that we don't put on the full armor of God, in love? God is love, pure and simple. Without love in our actions, we will ultimately cause bad things. Numbers 7 & 8 of Dotsie's post, Twenty Things to Remember, helps me round off this entry: 7. God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts.
8. Dear God: I have a problem. It's me.With love
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#109143 - 03/02/07 09:27 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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I wonder how it would be if we all acted in the spirit of light (God/dess) as much as we possibly could? If we were aware that our words and actions can hurt others and refrained from it as much as possible?
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109144 - 03/02/07 09:43 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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It would be great, Casey, but I think we'd be functioning in another realm/plane/world/dimension. We'd have already made it to heaven.
Overcoming differences, rising above having the last word and being right, loving and be loving, learning to be God-like are what this worldly existence seems to be about. Oh, I forgot about learning to praise him.
I love the phrase Lamont used in one of her books, "Quit trying to be right and be kind", or something to that effect.
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#109145 - 03/02/07 09:45 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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BTW, if I ever come off as being unkind, overbearing, righteous, too strong for human consumption, or anything else displeasing to anyone, feel free to let me know. I promise, I'll listen...
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#109147 - 03/02/07 11:13 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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so far gimster the post i read of your have been senitive, respectfull and inteligently communicated...
IF their was anything that i personaly thought was strange from you and taking account of the occasional off day or hurried post then i would pm you...Their a couple of people on the boared i have given permision to pm me if i go off on one or just seeing the world from within my own dimension and not considerring anothers dimension enough...
And talking of other demensions
When you considere the amount of women on the board in terms of religion alone, then their are those with no religion, no belife, spiritulist, wiccan, jewish, beliveing in christ but not christion, and within christianity their is something like 15 diffrent forms over and above straight catholic protestent devide.....
Ther bound to be other religions that i haven't mentioned as i haven't read anyone refrancing them ....Thats a lot of people to consider and not to disalow or offend their religious belifes.
To me the religion and god that someone holds dear may be the only thing they have left in the world so rocking that belife is or can be a realie riskie bussiness.
If we behaved as or at our best all the time then perhapps we would be in heaven....or closer to the place that lots of people would refaire to as eden, eden on earth....
At times and only at times i am deplaying the ideals of what i have just described....the rest of the time i am humane and fallible but true to what already been said i am a work in progress....and trying for progress is my aim.
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109148 - 03/02/07 11:25 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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Thanks for posting your private account of "the hug" what effect it had on your life and some of your private spirituale experincess, it takes guts at times to make those views public...
Your take on evil is fair and grounded ....i liked best the expression that evil is not equile to god....
I would put evil down as a collectiv of energy be it thought, actions, past deeds, remains of tramau thats twisted the human spirit in some way (which can be healed and recovered) I can't view or wont view people as evil but recognise that they can do eveil acts, from the small to the global.
mostly i see evil as the opposite of live i know its a play on words (from a dslexic be impressed lol) and it's how we live that matters, our overarching intensions and summasion of action...
and thats all from me on that subject...i don't like giving it too much air space or focusing on it, i would rather focus on being compasionate to others as they have dune wrong and myself in my wrong doings...
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109149 - 03/02/07 11:39 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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CASIE
went to that link and saved it in favourates so i can look with it at lesure (things are heatic heer) So thanks for the link....I thought it was new or newish but 16th centuary!!!! thats a long time...i looking forwared to reading more thanks again
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109150 - 03/03/07 01:32 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Gimster,I know, I'm a dreamer....but I keep hoping for more hope and light and less darkness and struggle. I've heard a similar quote from Wayne Dyer: When you have a choice between being right and being kind, choose kindness.
Celtic, Glad you liked the link!
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109151 - 03/03/07 03:08 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Gimster and all, I believe exactly as you do with regards to Satan and I've never seen anything but kindness in your posts. Thank you for that. I know there are many belief systems that post to this forum. I would fight for the right of those to have the freedom to believe and practice as they want. That's what the United States is all about and I'm proud to be an American citizen and a voter. I'm not to judge others and please forgive me if I do and have, but I can't compromise or accept or condone false teachers and false teachings.
Not being right isn't an option for me. There is too much at stake. I want to know that I know where I will spend eternity so being right is extremely important to me where my soul is concerned. If that bothers some of you, I truly am sorry.
Satan isn't on equal ground with God, though he'd like to be and that's what got the whole thing started in the first place. Satan wanted to be God and to be worshipped. He led a rebellion with the lie, "you too, can be as God". That was the lie in the Garden that He told Eve and is still believed by "Eves" all over the world..."don't listen to God. Eat of this fruit and give some of it to your hubby and the two of you will have all wisdom and truth and will be Gods." They got kicked out of the Garden.
He is a fallen angel, nothing else and only has the power we allow him to have. Just the name of Jesus sends him and all his cohorts running for cover and there is so much power in praise and in the shed blood of Christ. That's why movies like the Exorcist really just made me laugh because as my girls have often heard me say, "That movie could have been a 5 minute wonder". Just the name of Jesus is enough to send demons screaming back to Hell.
My own belief is that the spirit of God actually inhabits the praises of His people.
I was also raised Southern Baptist and am thankful for my upbringing and the knowledge I was given. I presently go to an Assembly of God church. I didn't go to church for a long time, same as you, felt it had become a business with a ceo and/or family affair...now I've come to the place that I hunger for fellowship with believers.
No matter what our differences, we all need each other and need to worship in unison and in spirit and in truth.
There are a lot of people who are offended by the authority given to the believers by Christ. The Pharasees hated Christ because He spoke with so much authority and he was the epitomy of love. It was that same spirit that sent Christ to be crucified. That spirit of anger and deep resentment toward God in the flesh.
I don't want to insult or hurt anyone, that's not my intent. Those who know me well, know I'm a gentle woman, tiny but with the heart of a lioness. I know the truth because I've seen it and experienced it and nothing can deter me from it or detract from it.
If its a tangent that I'm on..count my words then the words of others and you'll see that my posts are relatively short and to the point.
I don't hate anyone and really do care about others, just don't have time for myths and fairy tales, though they are very entertaining and sure won't stand for anyone dissing the one I love most!
I can enjoy the cultural and religious differences in each and all. I think by now everyone in this forum understands that I believe there is only one way to eternal life with God and that is through the blood of Jesus Christ, His son who was God in the flesh and now sits on the right hand of God forever more.
OK, with that, this is the last time I will discus my faith.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109154 - 03/03/07 05:13 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Quote:
No matter what our differences, we all need each other and need to worship in unison and in spirit and in truth.NEWLEAFS QUOTE. In my view thats what the global truth is if we ever to have a better world.
celtic
There are new churches cropping up across the U.S., mostly filled with younger generations, which have members of different faiths, beliefs, doctrines, etc. and they all worship under one roof. Can you imagine the power that would be generated if we all did forget our differences and worship in unison? Even if we weren't gathered together. I think my God would welcome any love based worship (more specifically love of good and love of our fellowpersons - that would not include free love...lol). WOW, how our words can get us into trouble! No devil worship or such. I have a hard time with pagan worship.
About words getting us into trouble:
In a college speech class, the students had to "instruct" the fellow students in a way that they could follow the instructions to a T. I chose to have them work a puzzle as I instructed them (without a visual). It was so much harder than I ever imagined. I ran into trouble when I told them to put the crescent shaped piece on top of the rectangle, which had previously been placed in a vertical position. One guy in the back of the classroom challenged my instructions and all sorts of problems ensued. "What do you mean by 'on top of'? Do you mean above? Stacked as in layers? Touching? Not touching?" Leave it to a smart guy!I'll never forget that experience.
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#109155 - 03/03/07 06:14 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Words certainly can get us into trouble. I have to watch that all the time. I love words and research their meaning just because. Its like a hobby.
I'm a hands on person. Just give me the instruction book and let me do it...
As far as my quote, it true, if all believers in Christ as savior could all gather together and praise His name and desire His will, no matter what their denomination, what a powerful gathering that would be.
As far as pagan worship of Christ, don't think it would happen and I could just see Him holding his head down with his hand behind His ear saying, "I can't hear you..."
Its something I hope for anyway, the day when "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."
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Aarikja Ann
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#109156 - 03/04/07 05:12 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Yep, words are tricky. I love the thought of all of us worshiping in unison. There is great power in that. But what is worship? Does it need to take place in a church, temple or synagogue? Is it in my prayer for healing or in my appreciation of my beloved?
When I am at peace, at a place of knowing that all is perfect right now for who I am in this place, I know my connection to God/dess. There's no striving in it. There's no need to convince anyone (including myself). It just is -- the great eternal now.
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109157 - 03/04/07 06:05 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Yes, I think that's worship too. There are different kinds of worship just as there are different "gods". If you are at peace within and in that perfect place with and connected to your "god" then you are worshipping it and it likes is very much so will give one the feeling of peace and contentment.
When I worship God, and His son Jesus, there is an overwhelming peace and assurance and feeling of power that is so great and humbling that you just naturally want to share it with others. You don't want them to miss out on it.
So, yes, I understand completely.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109158 - 03/04/07 10:31 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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But what is worship? Does it need to take place in a church, temple or synagogue? Is it in my prayer for healing or in my appreciation of my beloved? CASIEY QUOTE.
(I WHISH i new how to do quotes properly)
great question casey what is worship, for me it's anything and everything too or furthers a positive loving intent, attitude or action in the wolrd. Concisley or subconcislie done.
So i woship when i have the above when i feed or bath my child, help another young mother, hug a sad mate, walke in countrie park, make love, sit by the sea, find pebbles, when i recognise a positive feeling eg joy and just offer up to the devine spirite that moment of joy, and much more....
Woshipping is about who i am thse days my way of life and being in the world as well as the formal worship that goes on in churches chapels and the likes. In my prayers, my meditasions or healling prayers thanks goodness those actions or the act of worship is not just confined to a certine place or a certine way.
Thanks for opening this up for further expresion of all types of worship casey.
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109159 - 03/04/07 10:33 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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I don't know what pagan isum is like in the USA but heer it's having a god and godess as dietie figuers...The regognision of rythums of time or phases of moon and sessions, attension to the earth and the cycles of birth, life/maturasuin and death. Ritules that mark the seesions and the symbolisum of the seasions....The three fold law of return, what you do or give out comes back to you three times (be it good or bad). Whats wrong with a gentile respectfull way of worshipping like that........More or less thats it, no animal sacrifice or beastiality.....
I know that some of the woman heer on the forum are pagan, or spacifica strain of paganisum named wiccan. They are good sane sound woman...
Is paganisum a much diffrent type of religion or practice in the USA? could someone who know's answere this, or at lest someone not biased agenst it
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109160 - 03/04/07 10:50 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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I agree that worship isn't confined to the four walls of a church. I worship Christ every day in my car on the way to work, in deep thankfulness for what He has given to me, in the love and innocence I see reflected in the eyes of my grandchildren, in the beauty of the state I live in, the warmth of the sun and the sea air, the rhythm of the waves.
I know my Creator also made these things and that He loves me very much and cares about even the simplest things that concern me.
I know that my son in law left his wife and two little boys for paganism. He moved in with a girl he worked with and broke my daughter's heart and the hearts of his sons. I know he abused my oldest grandson when he was an infant and now he has learning disabilities and it breaks my heart to hear him say, "Grammy, I don't talk right and the other kids make fun of me." I know he used to sniff my youngest daughters underwear and masturbate while married to my daughter.
I know my husband who passed away was married to a Wiccan and he told me about her leaving her two daughters alone each day, all day while she chased after her coven sisters. I know she tried to lead the kindest man I've ever known into the occult trying to tell him he and she had been together in another life and he had tried to kill her and they needed to relive that time and get it right this time. I know she hated me because I loved him so much that together we discovered real happiness and faith in Christ.
That's the only experience I have with Wiccanism and its enough for me.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109161 - 03/05/07 11:10 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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sound like some preety nastie people NL...
did you report the son-in-law?....
Strange that he did the type of stuff that their form of spirituality is agenst.
pittie you had such bad example/experinces or reprisentitives of this type of spirituality....
still they all can't be the same....you get good and bad in all types of religions and it's not necassarilie the religions fault or teachings
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109162 - 03/05/07 01:37 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Yes, Celtic, I reported him to the doctors at the Marine Corps hospital where they took my grandson. He was almost dishonorably discharged from the Marine's.
The second time I saw my grandson, he was only three months old. My son in law had refused to let my daughter breastfeed him saying she was getting sexual pleasure out of it and my precious little grandson had a huge soft watery knot on his head. "Fluid buildup", yeah, whatever. I reported him to the Marines as soon as they got back home and tried not to let any of my family members know it was me who had reported him.
Hes a huge jerk! I will always report anything I see like that in any circumstance where the innocent are involved, especially MY innocents.
The Wiccan exwife was an artist. She has subsequently gained about 100 lbs. and is under a doctor's care for depression.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109163 - 03/05/07 04:10 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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I agree with Celtic that there are good in bad in every religion. It has less to do with religion in my opinion, than with people.
Here in Santa Cruz, CA, there's actually a listing for Pagan churches in the yellow pages of the telephone book -- which I've never seen anywhere else I've lived. I have good pagen friends and recently celebrated a ceremony with them that was a combination house-warming and some festival beginning with an S. (My memory is NOT what it used to be! LOL). It was warm and loving. It was also very different from anything I'd ever been to. A tad out of my comfort zone -- therefore a good experience for me.
I spent about three years living on a Native American reservation. I became very aware of their beliefs and ceremonies. Some of their viewpoints crept into my bones. There's is a much more polytheistic religion, with gods of storms and mountains and such, although there is a divine head -- the Great Spirit.
To me all ways of worship and religion are fascinating. It's people's attempt to make sense out of their lives, the world around them and the events they don't understand. (Like why someone would abuse a small child.)
(Celtic, hit reply and not quick reply and you will see QUOTE in a box at the bottom. When you click that, there will be two words with QUOTE in them. Put your quote between them.)
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109164 - 03/06/07 03:27 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Casey, I agree that its not the religion that makes or defines the person but it sure does serve as a huge neon light pointing to what they are willing to invest their lives, time and energy in.
Its not hard to understand that it would be hard to turn away from the belief system we were raised with and other belief systems are fascinating, I agree. As I've stated before, my grandma was mostly Blackfoot and Southern Baptist.
But, for myself, I have such a responsibility to know the truth and the truth isn't relative. Its black and white. There's no such thing as your truth or her truth or his truth or my truth. There is an ultimate truth and no matter how good the counterfeit religions look and no matter how sweet the participants are and how "normal" their activities seem to be or how much sense they seem to make, if their God isn't God the Father and Jesus Christ in the flesh and the Holy Spirit, then they're hitting all around the mark but missing it. I believe the Bible states "narrow is the road and not many people choose to travel it..." Its certainly not that God doesn't want them with Him. He isn't willing that anyone should perish, but that all should have everlasting life with Him.
Its people. A person's stiff necked rejection of the truth. How does that saying go, "If I can't impress them with brilliance, I'll baffle them with bulls***." Meaning, the truth and the way are sooooo simple and so easy that people think they have to DO something spectacular to merit it so the counterfeits baffle with bs to appeal to the insecure ones who think there's no way they could merit something so wonderful without earning it.
The Gospel seems too simple. Why don't we have to earn it or beat ourselves or our drums, or hop around three times or say ninety mantra's or put our kids in the trunks of trees or whatever...Its a FREE gift. Nothing you or I can do to earn it or deserve it. The gift was paid for by the blood of Jesus Christ. We don't have to go around and around and around in the universe coming back as cats or dogs or gnats, we are and were in the mind and heart of God from the very beginning of time. "It is destined a man once to die and then the judgement." not to die over and over again until he gets it right.
Anyway, that's what I believe and I really don't want to offend anyone. You guys are very special and dear. The Bible refers to the latter days of the earth when people would worship the creation rather than the Creator.
I mean, how would you feel if your husband loved and worshipped his clean shorts or his apple pie rather than being thankful for you because you made those things possible for him?
_________________________
Aarikja Ann
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#109165 - 03/06/07 12:12 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Founder
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
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While reciting this in church on Sunday, I thought of htis forum and decided to share:
I believe in God the Father Almighty, maker of Heaven and Earth; and in Jesus His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead and buried; He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into Heaven and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Holy Catholic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
Often we recite prayers without grasping their meaning. I've been reciting this since before I knew what the heck I was saying. Now I embrace it with all my heart and soul.
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#109166 - 03/06/07 06:56 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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They perish because they refused to love the truth. (2 Thessalonians 2:10)
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. [Colossians 2:8]
Question: Can there be only one truth?
We hear the term "my truth", when in an argument, stemming from the "takes" of one or the other. So, the answer could be "yes." But, as for a universal truth, I think there can only be one. That doesn't that what each of us has learned in regards to the one truth is the truth. There is so much to be learned recarding the truth, but the truth is so simple.
I believe unless you search for the truth with good search tools and a truth focused mental attitude, you won't be able to discern truth from "feel good." It's not hard to be drawn into a "self" centered philosopical place and end up in fairy tale land, (to use another's term). We have to be careful not to adopt spiritual imitations of the real truth. Remember the "Burger King - have it your way" and "cafeteria style" references - can't do that when it comes to the truth.
How do we come to the truth?
"If you hold to my teaching.... Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." [John 8:31-32]
Aren't we lucky that we are given choice -> a powerful (potentially self-condemning) gift.
Question : What do you think about God knowing who will choose and who will not?
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will... (Ephesians 1:11)
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#109167 - 03/06/07 11:12 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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I also wholehartedly belive in a truth, a universal truth....that their is but one god (by whatever name you address the dietie by)Just one god....
their are also a multitude of pathways to that god....their are as many pathways are their are good deeds and spirituale people and actions and spiritual based texts....thats what redeems the truth or puts flesh on the bones of the truth and turnes it into spiritual action...
Quotes from the bible detail but one pathway to the truth, the bible is your text book and your guide...to THAT spiritual truth it clames to be the only true religion. It sincerly is to the followers and belivers. It is not going to say "well follow my way or alternitivly a few other religions is just as good" becouse it wants to hold it's follower bound in loyalty to that religion. It's necassary for the religions survival, for any religions survival
However the Jewish religion will have their own sacred text and passages claming that that religion is the true religion and the only true religion. The jewish people belive this with all their hart and as much ferver and fire as any christion.
The Muslum religion will have it's own sacred texts and passages claming they have the truth and their way is the only true religion and so on. THIS is one point thats common to all religions they all claim to be the ONLY way.
what is a spiritual imitasion of the real truth? Gymster. How can it be an imitasion if it is based in loving sound spiritual ideologies. Is that not the same as the main teachings of the bible?.....so were is the imitasion? In the bible or in the basic spiritual values held by any religion?
I agree with you about the ease of being drawen into a "self" centered philosopical place wearby the "feel good" overtakes the truth...living a spiritual life at times is not easy when it goes agenst indivduel will to be brough into line with devine will......Thats something that all people from all religions have to gard agenst and have to work towards manifesting in every day life. It's not easie to live in a violent materlistick world that at times is ruled bu hate fear the need for one up manship....but to live a spiritual life then one has to turn away from theas things as often as one can....even when it is hard and even when it's not in your earthly intrest to do so.
That last question i am having a bit of trouble intrpriting it, more likly my reading >>>>Question : What do you think about God knowing who will choose and who will not?
i answere it both ways i interprited it. I don't think people get to chose anything over and above the pathway the chose to walk in all sincerity and hart felt belife, not just ease of the pathway.....
Or will god chose who enteres for want of a better word heven, YES it's the devine that choses that...In my life it absolves me of any responcibilite or need to personaly force, convert, or intice anyone else into my religiouse belifes......AS it remains the indivduels choice in how they act and the devine dose the judging therfore i don't have to and more importantly have no right to deem one religion more important or valed than another, as its god that dose the chosing and deciding.
NEWLEAF some of what your saying the diversity of religous belifes heralds the end of the world accourding to your sacred book 9if i am interpriting rightly). If thats a proficy and proficies are deemed to be the truth then relax as their is nuthing that can be done to stop a proficy from happening. It's devine will that it happen or that it will happen.
Good question to descuss versions of the truth.....their may be more pople reading than answereing for whatever reason hopfullie they will get involved
celtic
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109168 - 03/06/07 11:44 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Quote:
Or will God chose who enteres ... heven, YES it's the devine that choses that...In my life my responcibilite is to share God's Word...... AS it remains the indivduels choice in how they act and the devine dose the judging...
I like your answer. I have taken it and modified (in blue) how I would have put it, based on my beliefs.
As for the imitations, using my faith as the faith I'm comparing to, I could name a number of religions which I might consider imitations, but out of respect I'll not.
I'm thankful that we can discuss this without trying to win the other over. Thank you for letting me explain my ways of thinking and believing.
(BTW... were you the one wanting to use quotes? if yes, here's another way. Type, no spaces, [ quote ] copy and paste what you want in quotes [ / quote ] ... I had to put spaces or I'd be coding for a quote.)
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#109169 - 03/07/07 12:30 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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yea its me trying to learn to do quotes....i did do one succesfullie but got to writting my post then rembered your other question and got stuck as to how to do it then ...ah well!
the blue re-wording cool I think if your within a religion then its cool to offer anyother a snipit of what the reigions about....even if we heer stuff all the time...sometimes their comes a time when the rite quote or view hits home with someone and they heer it in a new way..Thats the bit that we not responcible for but yea perhapps their is a responcibilitie to offer others the chance or insight into views or religions we are within..And you never know who reading this and what effect it have on them (positivly) regarding a religion.
i also talk about devine spirite, god/godess, universal spitate...just diffrent names for the same entity...at lest god is eaier to spell for me lol
I also do have trouble getting my head around someone elses religion at times. I try to understand them and their belifes and how it all fits together for them into a mental or behavoral way of being in the world. I honestly do try and i can see at times weer their religion directs them but their humaness has them falling short, as i fall short in trying to live by my own spiritual ideals. But sometimes in my experince it's either explaned wrongly or the religions just seems bizzare (to my upbringing/outlook personal views)and i am shocked by it.
I may discuss religion but i hope never to take or trash someone elses belifes to the extent that it rocks their faith (we all get vulrible at times) becouse sometimes their view of their god is all they have in the world...take that from them and they have nuthing...
Maybee i just work with too many suicidal people?
I don't think anyone wins anyone over to anything by arguing. It might make the other person more anti whatever it is your trying to communicate. Creates hurt or hard feelings a calm and respectfull discussion at lest has people willing to listen then able to make their own choice.
the whole threads been prettie calm and its been reallie nice being involved in it....i have learnefd a lot and had a lot to think about, theirs never harm in that.
somehow this thread seems appropriate at this time of year as it is lent and comming up to holie week (for catholicks)don't know about the other christion tradisions....but in memorie of christ and his experinces during lent, and then the cruxificsion and reserection then for the memorie and whole spirite of the whole sequinc of events ....its worth marking and raising awarness off, no matter what religion your from....well at lest i think
celtic
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109170 - 03/07/07 01:49 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Quote:
Question : What do you think about God knowing who will choose and who will not?
I'm not sure what this means either. Who will choose God? A religion? To believe in Jesus? To believe that Jesus died for my sins? (Which is different from believing in Jesus.)
I guess it depends on whether or not you believe that life is pre-ordaned by God.
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109171 - 03/07/07 06:59 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Celtic, I can understand why you might be concerned for the emotions of those whose belief systems might be shaken, but what if they wouldn't be suicidal in the first place if they could cling to a better way for them? What if their emotional and mental illness stemmed from belief in a false God and the Holy Spirit was drawing them and trying to love them into the Truth and peace and power and strength of mind that comes through the renewal of the Holy Spirit?
I've studied the Talmud, Tamakh, midrash the Torah, Tipitaka, Tao-Te-Cing, ancient religions of Mitra and Druidism, Mayanism and most recently reading the Quran.
I've studied Spiritism, Satanism, and the New Age Movement with its multi-faceted forum. It seems there is a common thread throughout all the religions but Christianity.
Forgiveness isn't necessary because wrong is relative, blood sacrifice is necessary, works are necessary to gain Nirvana, godhood, higher enlightenment, etc.
Christianity doesn't require anything but acknowledging that the blood of Jesus covers their sins and makes the path clear to God and eternal life with Him. It asks that you acknowledge that you are a sinner fallen from grace, that you need a Saviour, that you turn from sin and make Christ the Lord of your life, that you are obedient to Him and that you love your neighbor as yourself.
In return God promises peace that passes all understanding, unconditional love, forgiveness, a sound mind, power, health, that all your needs will be met, joy and happiness, knowledge, fellowship with God, assurance that you will one day be with Him, that in Heaven there are many mansions that Christ the carpenter has prepared for us, that we will once again be reunited with our loved ones who have gone before us who were believers in Christ and so, so much more.
_________________________
Aarikja Ann
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#109172 - 03/07/07 08:15 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Quote:
...for the emotions of those whose belief systems might be shaken, ... What if their emotional and mental illness stemmed from belief in a false God and the Holy Spirit was drawing them and trying to love them into the Truth and peace and power and strength of mind that comes through the renewal of the Holy Spirit?
That's exactly where my thoughts went. What if their faith wasn't filling a need, an understanding? What if the stirring within them, the doubts, the questions, the lowness (if that's a word), etc. is the Holy Spirit working in them?
I feel led to repeat this scripture:
Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching.... Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." [John 8:31-32] No need to translate...a simple test built in.
It is a wonderful thing knowing that we don't have to earn our way.
I have a confession to make. This discussion has helped me in so many ways. Based on a close relative's belief sharing around 10 years ago, I started questioning my own. Over the years, I have done some reading (certainly not to the extent of NL), but enough. I started with Ron L. Hubbard's Dianetics. That scared me. But, I didn't stop. I read anything else that caught my fancy, that I thought would help me find my answer. I read enough to start believing that I had God in me - not that he lived within my heart, but that I had powers of God built into my brain. Essentially, my brain was my God part. The more I learned and heard, the more I questioned and doubted Christian teaching. I've questioned even more, since watching the PBS, Discovery Channel, Fox specials about who Jesus was, where the Bible came from, who put it together, what parts were left out and for what reasons. All the while, I was still getting my regular doses of my favorite ministers on INSP. It's been tough. I've hopscotched from doubt to doubt, from question to question, from belief to belief, from being fed-up to hopeless to happy, back to hopeless to fed-up, again. I came to a point of being mad at what I was expected to know and live by, and having to stick with it. At the same time, I was pissed because I might be living under the wrong belief system, no matter where my believing decided to settle. I even took on 2 ways of acting (no explanation necessary). Today, I feel something of that innocent faith that I had as a child growing in me again. I think I knew as a child what the truth was. I'll be glad to be back at that point. I still don't care for organized religion. I have reasons why, but I won't go into them.
Thank you all for participating in this thread. I really mean that!
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#109173 - 03/07/07 06:13 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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Quote:
Celtic, I can understand why you might be concerned for the emotions of those whose belief systems might be shaken, but what if they wouldn't be suicidal in the first place if they could cling to a better way for them? What if their emotional and mental illness stemmed from belief in a false God and the Holy Spirit was drawing them and trying to love them into the Truth and peace and power and strength of mind that comes through the renewal of the Holy Spirit?
newlesf i live in a prodominatly or overwhelmingly christion society......I think you assuomed i ment no-christions....How dose this applie in an existing christions case? Altrnativlie an agnostic or athiest, jewish etc. ...Some people have been brutilized, terriorized by the leaders or reprisentitives of religions (prists/ministers) or alternitivlie the average jo's interpritasion of any spacific religions teachings ie overzelias parent etc. ....meds and theripie might be best untill they are no longer suicidal..
For me their is more peace, contentment and health with a spirtuality than without one....but thats not the case for everyone.
Suicide more likly to occure when all hope is gone, if their god is ther last bit of hope i woldn't dream of shaking it, due to the vulribilite of the person at that time. Thats what i was meaning with the last post.
GYMSTER I agree with the couse of the restlessness you weer talking about as one potencial reasons, which i don't forget about....but as we all know their can be so many more couses and reasons behing seriouse depression and suicidal intent.
If it is spiritualy based, the holy spirite and that depression that you talked about can be a sighn to work out a better spiritual way..ie belife from within your existing religion....However if someone can't worki it out from within then thats what leads to people moving to diffrent religions than what they were born into.....(weer is it written or why dose it necasarily follow that you have to live the religion that you were born into anyway?)
NEWLEAFS QUOTEChristianity doesn't require anything but acknowledging that the blood of Jesus covers their sins and makes the path clear to God and eternal life with Him. It asks that you acknowledge that you are a sinner fallen from grace, that you need a Saviour, that you turn from sin and make Christ the Lord of your life, that you are obedient to Him and that you love your neighbor as yourself.END QUOTE
I would hope the above be true.....and living a decent life. Whats more important acnolaging christ as the saviour etc. Or living a decent god centred life?
CASY
can you say more about belife in jesus but not necasarily meaning he diead for ones sins....How is the cruxificsion justified? Pre-determined life....Now their a topic worth investigating!!!
celtic
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109174 - 03/08/07 05:16 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Celtic, I appreciate your perspective regarding the community of people you come into contact with. I know that surrender to Christ doesn't necessarily mean you will never get depressed or suicidal. I don't know of many people who if asked, wouldn't admit to having those thoughts at some point in their lives.
"The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike." Its all part of this boot camp we call life. But Christ has the power to change from the inside out, a complete renewal of the mind and body and restoration to completeness.
Regarding those who have suffered at the hands of the clergy and teachers and others in authority: Satan can and most always does pose as an angel of light and he hates innocence. What better platform to drive people from faith in Christ than to use the very representatives of faith ie: ministers and priests?
The Bible states that "...it would be better for them (the ones through which harm comes) that a millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the deepest sea."
Because there has been suffering in the world and at the hands of those who were in a position of trust, that doesn't give anyone the right to then throw those who are drowning a bowling ball and call it a flotation device.
That's destructive false hope. That's implying that our human abilities and level of education is far superior to the ability of their very Creator to heal them, forgive them and restore them to a sound mind and soul.
If I were in the position of healer or helper or guide to someone who was suicidal or desperately holding on to life, I would be so very careful that I was a conduit for truth rather than a container of falsehood. Otherwise, I would be libel on the last day for those I've filled with false hope and falsehood.
Jesus Crucifiction was necessary for the forgiveness of our sins. In the Old Testament, which is used by the Jewish faith, the priests had to follow strict rituals in the sacrifice of perfect blemishless lambs as offerings for the sins of the people because God is Holy and perfect. Sin can't be where God is.
Because God loved us so much, he gave His only son to be born a human, experience all that was human, live among us, and then suffer and die for us as the final sacrificial lamb. Now no more blood sacrifices will ever be necessary again. We can come boldly before the throne of God and make our requests just like a favorite child.
Its no more complicated than that. I'm overjoyed at the wonder of the promises of God and the love extended to us through Christ.
Its not enough to live a good life. Even if we gave our bodies to be burned but lacked the love of Christ Jesus, it would be for nothing. Its not good works that get you into eternity with God. Its the acceptance of the precious sacrifice Christ made for each of us and a release of our own will to His.
_________________________
Aarikja Ann
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#109175 - 03/08/07 07:30 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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I was raised protestant and when I turned 15, I started on my own safari for truth. I experimented with TM, Eastern religions, drugs, alcohol, Native American religion (carried a charm bag and had fetishes around my house).
Smoked peyote, etc. I became more and more depressed which lead me to the psychiatrist and counselors. The psychiatrist prescribed even more drugs, valium, librium and something else for the stomach. I became addicted to valium.
I sunk deeper and deeper into depression until one day I decided to take myself off all the drugs and started reading my Bible. I just sat at the dining room table and read and read until I had completely read the whole Bible.
I saw so many things in there I'd never been taught. There were so many questions. I was in school at the time and my philosophy teacher came up to me one day after class and put his arm around my shoulders and said, "I've noticed you sort of going downhill lately. Some people meet at my house on Wednesday nights and my wife and I would love to have you stop by."
I went and they all gathered around me and prayed and I felt like Atlas sitting there in that chair and the weight of the whole world was lifted off my shoulders. It was wonderful!
I'll never forget the experience. I've slipped up time and again, but I see myself on this tether or umbelical cord attached to Christ. He will only let me get so far then He starts reeling me in again, back to the safety and comfort of his arms.
I wouldn't give that up for anything in the world.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109176 - 03/09/07 02:58 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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i trulie hasppie you had the positive experinces you had with the church....pitie you got addicted to the drugs.
overand above that what can i say about the posts....
The main thing is i don't repond to threats from people nor threats regarding my soul and how gods gonna treat me when we meet and you know this NL.
Meds and theripists are necassary at times for people in crisis or sever pain...look further than your own experinces newleaf!!!
you have gone a little to far this time (as you do many times) in your assumptions juding and daming of me....and off course it transmites into my profesional life. All this on no evidance of what or how i do my work, just your own perceptions.
Ladie your way off mark heer and blinded by your own belifes about me, religion and how the world should be. Fine if thats how you want to live your life but the line gets drawen when you start telling me how to live mine, falslie question my work throw into the pot the potencial damnasion of my soul and implie that the world (and my world)has to revolve around your religion....sorrie but no ball.
you have every right to your belifes for your life but not when it turnes into your belifes for my life. Try to treat me with the same respect that i repeatidly offer to you
celtic
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109177 - 03/10/07 12:38 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Celtic, I'm sorry for offending you. I know you do the best you can and that you truly care for others. I don't presume you are the kind of person who would intentionally lead someone in the wrong direction.
Sometimes I come on a lot too strong. I was sincere when I stated that I wouldn't want your job because it would put such a responsibility on my shoulders. It would be terribly important to me to be right and to help these hurting people the best I knew how with the best tools at my disposal. I'm sure you do that.
You are right. I would be offended too. I'm truly apologetic.
I've known many people who suffer from depression and anxiety. My daughters are two examples close to my heart. They have been helped immensely by a combination of counselling, drug therapy and Christian based teaching. Nothing else has worked.
I've known many other people who just slip further and further into the deep hole of depression because they don't have the right path to follow out of the hole.
At the end of time, "Every knee will bow and Every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father." Every doesn't leave anyone out.
_________________________
Aarikja Ann
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#109178 - 03/10/07 01:43 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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thank you newleaf for your apoligy and your re-think and understanding i appriate it.
Being about addicts only between 4 and 6 % make it into recovry and on to a productive life...to quote some of the litriture the rest go into relapse end up in jails, institusions and death....the suicide rate is incredibly high. When they have tried recovery, treatment centeres, religion, psychiaty 12 steap programes relashionships and nuthing works or heals them.....their choice is back to drugs which is so horrendes for them they choise death instead of living in their addiction or constant state of pain with or without drugs. Some or all have ptsd or mental illness, or personalitie disorders etc...its hell for them. There also a whole bodie of people who don't have the addictive part but have the intrusive thinking and emotional pasin for a variety of reasons. The statisticks fair much better for them guys and ladies.
My responcibilitie is do the best i can, the best regardless of what they have done in their addiction or are currently doing. Theirs a lot i cant agree with in terms of lifestyle when it comes to the addict hurting others but yet they are as deserving of love respect and the best of care as anyone else....If i do my best and leave their healling as their responcibilitie and not mine i can sleep at night. That dosent mean their no pain or loss if they die or kill themselfs or relaps it just means its their responcibilite and mine is to do my best by them. I got a lot of love for people generallie, its a strenth and a weekness at times. Learning the above took years and a lot of pain untill i learned it.
I also belive the path or part of the cure or way out of addiction/depression/disorders is developing a spiritual way of life. Its central to my life iv been luckie and only had 1 yr of no faith in my life is was so dark it was almost unbearible....it tought me the importance of god for MY life other people don't maybee never have had that faith and if they can't join a religion then the best they can do is develop spiritual principles.....who knows weer it leads for them in the future. A lot do in time progress furtheir back into religion (that hurt them so much) but with renew faith and a diffrent take on things they make it back to religion. I am glade becouse of the religious communite and sence of belonging they recive, none of its bad.
In many ways i unserstand why you come on so strong with your religouse belifes, i think it's central to your life and you get so much benifit from it in some sences it is your passion. I kinda like that about you....I think it was gymster that said plant the seed, spread the word of god and thats all god will expect of you. Stand back from the outcome, it be easier for you and your not responcible, As you have dune all thats expected of you. Just let go of the outcome,maybee it be easier for you. But belive me i understand the worrie and drive to "save souls" i done it in my earlier life too and took it personalie as my mission and it was born out of fear and panic for others and what would happen to their imortal soul, why could't they relise the risk they weer taking etc...i was a pest of hell and worried myself sick.
bottom line don't lose your passion for your god and your way, just communicate it diffrently if you can stand back from the outcome.
Who knows what will happen at the end of the day or how it will happen.
I like the last quote becouse of it's inclusivness, becouse it includes "everyone", thats a nice take or interpritasion of it. At this point i don't know how why or when it come true, if it be true.....You might be right....who knows in the end.
anyway thanks and take the best care of yourself, it's very late for me so night and god belss
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109179 - 03/10/07 02:37 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Thanks for acknowledging my apology. My youngest daughter is a drug addict and so many times I've almost lost her. I fully understand the terrible heartbreak of loving someone who has such a serious problem and nothing, no amount of loving them, no amount of sacrifice can make them whole.
Ultimately it is up to them and the one who created them for that transformation to health to take place. As all of you know I used to drive a semi. My husband and I drove together. One evening when we were approaching Oklahoma on a long haul to California, I got a phone call from my middle daughter, Alicia stating through tears, "Mom, you'd better come home fast, Katie has overdosed and they don't expect her to live." Those words fell on me like an iceberg in the cab of that semi miles and miles from where my youngest daughter lay in the hospital with tubes hanging out of her.
I was very ill myself and running a high fever with an upper respiratory illness. I got off the truck in OK, took a cab to the airport shaking with fever and fear, rented a veh and drove non stop all the way to Tampa, FL not knowing if my daughter would be alive or not when I arrived. I would drink coffee and immediately throw it back up. I would pray in the Spirit and plead with God for her life and made so many cell phone calls to the hospital. The admonished me that I'd better get there soon...
She is a beautiful girl with long blonde hair and a certain innocence about her, with big blue eyes and the sweetest smile. When she was just a little tyke we called her Ewok because she was short and stocky with the biggest dark blue eyes.
I had to stop at a hospital emergency room on my way because I couldn't breath and napped in rest areas just so I wouldn't fall asleep while driving.
I finally made it and she lived. I spent the next several days with her but she couldn't wait to get back out to use cocaine again and ghb.
My heart has been broken so many times by her and I've been angry with God and guestioned him, "Why my child? Why my baby? I can't even begin to explain to you from a mother's perspective what type of torture it is to love your child so much that you would gladly take on yourself the pain and anguish that child must go through and let them be well and whole.
Its been a terrible, long journey, I've never been able to let go of Katie. I love her so much. I've since made peace with God. He never wanted my little one to be addicted to drugs. Someday when I see him face to face, I'll ask him why or maybe it won't be important then and I'll just crawl up in his lap and relax.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109180 - 03/10/07 10:13 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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yea any pain from the kids....incredible and comes with that helpless realitie of what true powerless comes from or is made of...when you have kids its like weering your hart on your sleave. Addictions such a horrier for the addice and everyne they come into contact with....especillie effecting the familie.
i agree with you on the part that its not gods plan for them or indeed any off us to live in that much pain, or to solve it in that manner their is a way out that dosent revolve round us hurting ourselfs furtheir. Some folks know this instnctivly and can cope othes don't and have to learn....Someothers have such a hard time with the learning. This world for me's about progress, the journey perfection may come the other side of life or it's just another level of journieing, who knows. I like to think that so many of our questions get answered about ourselves the world and the ones we loved, we get to know the truth of things events and spiritual matters.
The image of crawling onto a lap and relaxing a nice one. It speeks to me of protection and love. Like a 3 year old to its parents lap.....For me i don't know how it comes or if their be a lap involved but i do belive it be about the feel protection compasion and understanding for all the things i don't know or don't understand in this world.
I hope katie be well now or soon, as long as theirs hope, hartbraking as it is during the waite we never know how it turns out. I would always risk my hart braking than giving up on those i loved. Letting go of the outcome untill they come round keeps us safe and living in the boundrie of our own humilitie. The rest maybee is a god thing weather they know it or not or weather it seems directly related to god, lol their many sneekie lol indirect ways the spirite workes.
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109181 - 03/14/07 03:44 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Katie now has her own place and is moving in right now. She is excited about having her own place. I'm very happy for her.
She just graduated from CPR class and personal training course, just took her final exam. She has a valid driver's license now and after they get through putting the new motor in my Ford Focus, she will have a car to drive.
She has a good job and she'll soon have at least one of her children back with her.
I'm hoping and praying from the sidelines.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109182 - 03/14/07 12:02 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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it sounds like its all comming together for her sounds like she has worked very hard. A good job dune
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109183 - 03/14/07 06:36 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Celtic, Sorry I took so long to get back.
What's the difference between believing that "Christ died for your sins" and not believing that and still being a Christian?
For me, the belief that Christ died for your sins begins with Paul, not with Jesus. So to believe in Jesus and follow him and his ways is different from believing that Christ died for my sins. I find it difficult to believe that a loving God would condemn his/her son to an excrutiating death. So I don't.
I also find more evidence in the Bible -- particularly the Gospels -- that show us a way to live, to follow a particular way. That's more important to me. I can do somehting about that. I can't do anything about Jesus being hung on a cross. It's done. I didn't do it.
I can ask God/dess to support me with grace and I can go to her with my desire to become more loving than I am right now. Because I believe that love is who we are and that was what Jesus was trying to tell us: Love your God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself.
That's hard enough!
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109184 - 03/14/07 07:05 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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I also wanted to add that there are many different Christian denominations. Some have a litmus test of what you must believe to be one of them. Some don't. My particular denomination is pretty loose on saying what you have to believe -- but even still I consider myself on the outskirts of that religion. I take what I need and leave the rest.
It is a blessing to me to see you both (Celtic and New Leaf) really working at finding common ground. You are two amazing women!
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109185 - 03/15/07 04:10 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Thank you, Casey. I admit, I have a long way to go in understanding all that is Godly and I'm sure I won't know everything until I can ask Him in person someday face to face. Its true Bible based Christianity does have a litmus test for believers and that litmus test IS the sacrifice God made of his only Son, Jesus Christ. The reason I believe it is so important to most denominations is that in the Old Testament, the priests had to concecrate the sacrificial meat, they had to bathe, they had to wear certain kinds of clothing, they had to do this and that and to the letter of the law in order for God to be pleased with their sacrifice. True love saw our helpless state and had pity on us flailing about in our sin. To me, Casey, love requires extreme sacrifice sometimes. In my own life I've certainly been called upon to put things on hold that I wanted for myself and have lost a lot but in losing I've gained so much! John 3:16 says, "For God SOOO loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him won't perish, but will have everlasting life." Christ asked the apostle Peter, "Who do you say that I am?" Peter's reply was, "You are the Christ, the son of the living God." The litmus test for knowing if someone is of God or an enemy of God is to mention the shed blood of Christ to them. A person who is not of God is angered by the blood of Christ. They don't even know why it angers them so much. A demon possessed person can't speak of the blood of Christ because it is so powerful. I would never want to be guilty of demoting or denouncing the shed blood of Christ. The Jews sprinkled the blood of a lamb on their doorposts so that the death angel would pass over them. The firstborn of everyone who didn't sprinkle the blood on their doorpost was destroyed. Love is misrepresented so much of the time. It isn't all warm fuzzies. Love is a verb just as rushing water can both sooth the throat and flood an entire community killing many people. It is like a fire that warms you on a chilly night and destroys an entire forest. Even the ancient religions have a ying and a yang, a Shiva and a counterpart for their lack of a better way of explaining the phenominom of goodness in its many forms. The whole point of the sacrificial lamb, Jesus Christ, is love. What kind of love would lay down their very life for the likes of you and me? Only God would do that. Our creator and the lover of our soul.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109186 - 03/15/07 05:10 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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thanks casie for the explinasion....i wondere if you get called upon much to defend what you belive and how you cope with that. Do you bother defending it or just not get into a debate about it?
in a sence its a godsend that your religion has a (loose think thats word you used)lose attitude to what you must beliver and wonder is same true of having to defend within your churches.......its makes me tired having to defend and why do we have to anyway why not get peace to belive what we belve.
i never read a nastie or distrespectfull post from you casie their always like a breath of fresh air and i welcome that. hope you are who you are for a long time....
love michelle
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109187 - 03/15/07 03:43 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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New Leaf, These are my thoughts and beliefs -- take what you like and leave the rest. I in no way intend to disrespect your beliefs or try to convert you to my way of thinking! That would be impossible and you are fine just the way you are! Quote:
Its true Bible based Christianity does have a litmus test for believers and that litmus test IS the sacrifice God made of his only Son, Jesus Christ. The reason I believe it is so important to most denominations is that in the Old Testament, the priests had to concecrate the sacrificial meat, they had to bathe, they had to wear certain kinds of clothing, they had to do this and that and to the letter of the law in order for God to be pleased with their sacrifice.
Yes, this is the Jewish law and Paul was one of the most ardent in holding up the Jewish law before he received what he believed was his mission. In Jesus' time there were many different sects of Judiasm and they each followed the law differently. And, even with the beginning of the Christian church there was a great deal of hostility between those who felt that Christianity was only for Jews who had been circumsized (like Peter's group) and those who felt that it was open to all (Paul). Paul very much preached, as he began a new church, that Christ had come to be sacrificed as the new law. Hence, your litmus test.
Quote:
True love saw our helpless state and had pity on us flailing about in our sin. To me, Casey, love requires extreme sacrifice sometimes. In my own life I've certainly been called upon to put things on hold that I wanted for myself and have lost a lot but in losing I've gained so much!
We all make choices which can be viewed as sacrifices. We say no to one thing in order to say yes to something else. It all depends on how you look at it. I can't say that I have ever sacrificed. I have given things up, in order to make different choices. I have made poor choices and good choices! I believe that Jesus shows us a way, a path to better living and that is as much, if not more, important to me, than whether or not he died on a cross. I accept that it is my belief and not yours.
Quote:
John 3:16 says, "For God SOOO loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him won't perish, but will have everlasting life."
Ah, yes, John...Can I believe in Jesus and can I follow Jesus's way without believing that he was sacrificed? God gave us his son so we could follow light. And look at where Jesus showed his light -- with the poor and the meek and the tax collectors. He broke bread with them and healed them. I believe that is what we are told to do -- to choose to extend love to all and to make the world a better place before we leave.
Quote:
The litmus test for knowing if someone is of God or an enemy of God is to mention the shed blood of Christ to them. A person who is not of God is angered by the blood of Christ. They don't even know why it angers them so much. A demon possessed person can't speak of the blood of Christ because it is so powerful.
I don't know where this comes from. Or even what it means. So if I am angered by the blood of Christ then I don't believe in God? It just doesn't seem like anything I could relate to. And doesn't seem important to the Jesus I meet in the Bible. His love extended to all, not just to the believers.
Again -- my thoughts and beliefs -- take what you like and leave the rest.
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109188 - 03/15/07 03:53 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Celtic,
Thank you! Of course, my church is going through it's own throes of pain at the moment. There are a group of American Southern Churches and African Churches of the Episcopal/Anglican denomination who are threatening to cause a schism within the church because of the ordination of gays/lesbians and the election of a woman as a bishop. It will be interesting to watch it as it plays out.
I try to live my beliefs rather than defend them. Although as you can see from my rather long-winded reply to New Leaf, I do explain my beliefs from time to time. I try to look for the good in all and work for a common ground based in love. Am I always successful? No. I'm a work in progress! :-))
As my children (and many others) taught me -- people believe what they see you do over what you say you do.
In spirit,
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109189 - 03/15/07 04:57 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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More questions...>
Jesus, himself, said his death and resurrection were to establish the final covenant... without his death (a necessary step to reconcile us to God), there would be no resurrection. His life, death and resurrection are the very essence of Christianity. It's hard to accept a "take what you like and leave the rest"... we can't do that as far as the laws of the land are concerned, and not be penalized... so how can we when it comes to Christianity, a name given to those who believe the Christian creed and live to follow the teachings of Jesus? He knew he was dying for our sins.
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#109190 - 03/15/07 11:27 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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can't find the question gimster just a statment about chirstianity.... Quote:
It's hard to accept a "take what you like and leave the rest"...
it may be hard to accept it to your mind and within your belife system....but obviouslie not to caseys mind or within her belife system. How dose she or her church beliving as she/it dose impact on your belifes, weer dose it take anything from your belifes....Perhapps the only thing is that it's simplie not the way you view it....but please allow her her belifes with dignitie and the respect she deserves...
Wars have been consitent through-out time over who's god is right..countless have diead in war ....and then their was the refermation...How manie millions died in that becouse they wouldn't leave their original religion? Would you leave yours becouse some bigger magority said you had to?
manmade laws and god made laws are miles apart, theirs no comparison between them allthough its a claver example.
casiey statment "take what you like and leave the rest"... Is a sigh of respect for those that don't think like she dose and a statement that leaves it up to the reader to accept or not....no weer dose she claim to be right or to be the only way or command that you have to belive as she dose....
can't we all belive what we need to belive in the end. A few post back you said something like "your responcibilitie was to spread the word and leave it at that"...
so pleas can it be left like that as so manie of us belive very diffrent things....this post was started and about what do you think of about god not about christianity...that was the original intent when you posted. Why if someone opens up and talkes about their belife without anyone else being attacked why should they in turn be holed over coals becouse it dosent fit with what you personalie belive....
i am sure that post or statment hit some kind of nerve and is emotive for you...is that not down to you to sort out for yourself....i having a totalie diffrent reaction to it.
So who is right, perhapps we both are...or none of us.
god bless
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109191 - 03/16/07 02:51 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Casey, if I've come across other than questioning, please forgive me. As a matter of fact, if I've come across as anything but wanting to learn how someone else comes to a way of thinking, forgive me. I've read and reread my post and can't see where I might have worded it differently and not made matters worse. EEEEEEgads... I'm out of this discussion .
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#109193 - 03/16/07 05:51 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Anno]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Its a strange dicotomy that those of us who are Christians have been taught that sacrifice is so important in the act of Love. So much so that we, many of us, have laid down our lives and have been martyred for the freedoms of those who oppose our beliefs to practice freely.
While we fiercely hold to the belief that all should have the right of free worship, we also are due respect for our commission to spread the truth to every nation, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
I think we have all stated our beliefs and we are free to do that due to the sons and daughters whose parents grieve their loss in battle after battle.
Jesus said that in the last day, "Every knee shall bow and Every tongue confess, that Christ is Lord to the Glory of God the Father.
Satan believes the Bible as much as any evengelist, priest or preacher. He knows it is true. So, to borrow from its teachings and to take what you want like it is a Spiritual Smorgasbord, is ludicrus. There is only one way to a Holy God and that is through the shed blood of his son Jesus Christ.
I understand that is the true litmus test and always has been and always will be until the end of time. We shall see on the last day of time who was right. and Right IS soooooo important to your soul.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109195 - 03/16/07 11:47 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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gimster if you were trulie making a question around what is christianity and not laying down the law as to what should be classed as christianity in relashion to christ and his death then i appoligise to you. That was the exact question that i asked casie in the first place. i interpreated your answere to what she said after that question was asked and answered as a contridiction to her fundemental belifes. Again if that was wrongly interprited i appoligise.
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109196 - 03/16/07 11:54 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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ANNO just out of curiosity can i aske why you don't havent said about your belifes...do you not want to expose yourself and then be in a postion to have then riddiculed or being told that you are wrong or be left hurt or dissolosiond if their is no acceptance of them....Or are they just so personal to you that you whish to keep them private??? pm if you whish
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109198 - 03/16/07 03:44 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Hi all,
I am not offended. I really expected the reactions and I hold the space for everyone to be right for themselves. Although it's true that the statement "take what you like and leave the rest" has to do with my belief statements and not the Bible's. That might have been a bit confusing! :-))
Gimster, stay here with us. It's a good topic and one that needs to see the light of day more often so we learn how to talk about religion (and politics) in a respectful way.
Based on biblical criticism (the study of the Bible's origins), the Bible was assembled and edited by men over time. Whole sections of gospels were left out. Stuff was put in. That's why I do not take it literally, although I accept that there are people who do.
And, Gimster, I get your point about Christianity. I sometimes wonder myself if I am a Christian according to the doctrine of most Christian churches. Yes, I believe that Christ was put to death and the resurection occurred. However, I don't believe that it was a sacrifice for my sins. I believe the lesson is in his life. So, maybe that makes me a Jesus follower and not a Christian? I'm not too hung up on labels, so whatever one you want to use is fine with me.
New Leaf is also right. Right from the get-go, the church that Paul and Peter established was intent on conversion and it is a doctrinal imperative of the Chistian church. However, again, for me, it's an imperative of the church that developed after Jesus died, so it's not one I buy into.
I just wonder, when there's conflict between what Jesus said to do (e.g. love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself) and what some churches say to do (demonize those who aren't Christian), why we don't follow what Jesus said and did rather than the men that came after him? Just curious.
Take what you like of my beliefs and opinions and leave the rest.
In spirit,
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109199 - 03/16/07 04:00 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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One more thing. I believe that from New Leaf's perspective my soul is in peril and she is afraid for me and what I will experience after my death. I believe she cares about me and so I take her comments as those of love, not disrespect. That goes for others who disagree as well.
Thank you for your caring.
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109200 - 03/16/07 05:15 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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thanks casey for your take on things. Your freedom for yourself and for others is inspirasional as is your love and understanding.
it takes a strong self-assurances not to be rocked over thse types of matters of faith or the fate of the soul due to our own belifes in the face of being told no thats not how it is...so thanks for your wisdom and security
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109202 - 03/17/07 03:35 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Quote:
More questions...
(regarding selectivity)> so how can we when it comes to Christianity, a name given to those who believe the Christian creed and live to follow the teachings of Jesus?
celtic, the above is my question... also, referring back to one of my earlier post in this discussion, anyone can find where I made reference to "Burger King" and "cafeteria style", which, translated meant, to me, "take what you want and leave the rest." I had already thrown the thought out there in regards to how I feel and believe. In no way was I directing it at what Casey said... I was just framing my question. I also used the word "we" in the question, making sure everyone understand I didn't mean any one person in particular. I am so grateful that Casey was mature enough and strong enough in herself and beliefs to not take it as an attack on her, telling her she was wrong in her beliefs (I most honestly wasn't doing that), or even misunderstanding what I had to say.
Casey, thank you. I am not cemented in what I believe in such a way that I don't still question, and question some more. I, too, believe that the Bible was fashioned by the church of the time to govern people, and that it was written under strict supervision, leaving in what was deamed necessary by the authorities that were. That is one thing that bothers me, immensely. But, when I think about it, I come to the conclusion that what is Divine will withstand the filter... what is now there, withstood the test of time and is meant to be there. Also, Casey, thank you for asking me to stay in the discussion. (YOU too, Anno.:)) It gave me courage (at a weak moment for me) to post a rebuttal.
If I have inadvertently offended anyone, please forgive.
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#109203 - 03/17/07 11:49 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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my main concered was that casy was ok within the flow of the thread than anything else, as she answered in responce to my question i felt a bit responcible, when in fact i wasent responcible. As we can all see she was publickly and privatly ok with things.
once again GIMSTER i appoligise for my misinterpritasion of what i thought the post was about. Also if i have couse you any embarrisment as well as hurt with my misinterpritasion of the post i appoligise for that too.....i can offer no other relivent explinasion to you, that is about your, per say over and above what i have alreadie said a few post back. So all that remains for me to do is to appoligise and move on...i hope you can too.
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109204 - 03/17/07 12:07 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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i dunno ANNOA ..what you do have is spiritual belifes and they are valid in amonst this discussion as religous belifes, arn't they? ANNOS QUOTE...I believe that love and kindness and service and being good to others is my spirituality I do believe in prayer as a way to finding your own solutions to problems. I believe in the power of positive thought.END QUOTE i love practical spirituality weer peoploe manage to live what they hold to be true, its reallie refression wheen ever someone dose this belonging to a religion or not. That connection between prayer and positive thoughts, finding your own solusion through it and in some way the positivity working....regardless of beliving in a god or not is exilent. i wouldn't agree that you don't have anything to add in this topic....as what you have just talked about is at the hart of religion/spirituality but do as you feel best. and it is fun just reading and not joining in on some topics for long enough i read the writters stuff and not joined in becouse i didn't write, so though i shouldn't have been their and when i did it was fine. lol. Thanks for jumping in on this one and doing something to help the situasion come to a good end... celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109205 - 03/18/07 08:58 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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With all due respect, Celtic, its not about domination, its about servitude. Jesus never intended for anyone to be condemned. It seems in this culture and in the day and age we live in that freedom of choice and freedom to believe as we wish is of paramount importance.
I would have to agree. At the same time, it is true that the Muslim, the Jew, the Satanist, even the dear one who straddles the fence, ALL will confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Now, that doesn't mean dominance, it doesn't mean anyone should go to war. It doesn't mean to be a hater or a judger. The Bible says that those who don't believe in Christ as the sacrificial lamb of God are condemned already because they haven't believed.
No wars are necessary. I can't say that I don't care whether or not you or your loved ones ever believe because that would be a lie. I do care because the love of Christ dwells in me. If you truly love your fellow man, you want them to be happy, healthy, and that they have eternal life.
Good works and happy thoughts won't get you there. It really is as simple as that. Love does involve passion and sacrifice. Its not all warm fuzzies. It takes a strong person to walk the path to salvation and to finish the race set before them.
We ARE in a spiritual battle and any of you who think we aren't are deluded. Its not a battle with arms and combat, its a spiritual battle for the souls of our friends, our children and our families.
It isn't easy, but you can't be politically correct and serve God at the same time. You CAN be polite and loving and considerate and be the greatest servant of all, but if you don't have the strength of your faith and your convictions then you are as the Bible puts it, a prostitute to the faith and not a handmaid of God. Those of you who are Catholic, what would Mary do? I ask you to search your conscience.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109207 - 03/18/07 03:40 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Member
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 4434
Loc: Minneapolis Minnesota
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Quote:
At the same time, it is true that the Muslim, the Jew, the Satanist, even the dear one who straddles the fence, ALL will confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
It is broad statements like this that keep me running faster and faster and further and further away from Christianity and organized religion.
Respectfully, I would add:
It also seems to be a very good example of Proselytism (the practice of attempting to convert people to another opinion, usually another religion) which were stated early on to be against the rules of this thread.
It further seems to be a threat to my existance in any "afterlife" and the existance of the majority of the people of the earth.
I can only hope that I completely misinterpreted the statement.
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#109208 - 03/18/07 04:48 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Anno]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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I have to confess, Anno, that that statement threw me as well. NL, I am curious. Can you see that when you make a statement of "truth" it is different from stating that you believe that something is "true"? It doesn't change your belief or your conviction or the love I know is in your heart. It doesn't mean you aren't right. But it allows the rest of us to feel a little less hammered.
I've been doing a great deal of study of theology through something called Education for Ministry. It's interesting and allows me to become more and more clear about my beliefs and more at ease about them. And I have become more aware of the difference between the doctrine of organized religion and the essence of the religion. My beliefs are in the hearts of religions/beliefs which are very similar, not in the doctrine.
I hang around the Episcopal church as much for community as anything else. The mass gives me something indefinable and beautiful that is dependent on a ritual. Rituals can be very grounding for many people and take many forms in different religions and outside of them.
How do rituals help you know about God (whatever you may call her/him/it)?
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109209 - 03/19/07 12:58 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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i dont like battles or wars in any form, being in the physical or just in the mental or hart. Batlles belie an attitude and that attitude in relasion to battle or wars is necasariliy one betterring the other.....in this case it all others comming to belive that christ is the lamb of god or "sacrificial lamb of God those that don't belive are condemned already because they haven't believed".
your pathway may be in servitude to christ but the religion is one of dominances...it necasarilie relies on the fact that all others have to take this religions basic principles and make tham their own in order to gain access to the afretlife. There not much freedom in that for me. I do however understand weer your comming from.
One thing i agree on and have to congratulate you on is your degree of belife in you spacific religion, i have said it before and i saying it again...to live a spiritual life is not necassarily the easiest of pathways..."It takes a strong person to walk the path to salvation and to finish the race set before them".END QUOTE to live by ones convictions dose take strenth regardless of the conviction.
I am glade you want what is best for me and my soal but...its not to be found for me within your religion. Remember the sexule sin part, i don't want a drawn out conversasion about it, but i don't belive god would make such matters into a test of faith for me or anyone else....
In some ways the christions stance on this and my own meditasion and considerasion of matters, over years, helped me make a choice in my life and from the choice go looking for a diffrent expresion of the devine. In the long run it was a good thing.
Its in opposition to your religions belife but within my world and belife system and church then i am ok just the way i am...that represents more the god i want to follow...so don't worrie or give it anymore thought, its all ok.
Within my own church i get to be a preacher, a spiritual healer, inspirasional talker none of that would be their for me within christion religions...so its all worked out fine. My skills are weer they are best used in service to god
well thanks for sharing your belifes and the core of your religion, stay true to yourself on your own path.
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109210 - 03/19/07 01:07 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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CASIEY
And I have become more aware of the difference between the doctrine of organized religion and the essence of the religion. My beliefs are in the hearts of religions/beliefs which are very similar, not in the doctrine.END QUOTE
can you expand on that becouse it sounds intresting and i a bit confused about the docturn ...."hearts of religions/beliefs which are very similar"....is that your own belifes or your churches.....your studie sounds intresting.
as of retuale. In private i have daily and nightly prayer....and more harder to do with the chikd around is medistasion. I can pray and feed him etc. but i need bit more peace for meditasion....for me praying is like talking to god meditasion is quiting my mind and waiting for answeres to prayers or a better way to do things, so often i find i am rong about things in meditasion. ....i love group singing be it hymes tradisional or not...i love the energy that comes from it.
catholisisum has manie stric or regimented rituals around the mass and something about it and about the order and predictibility of it all brings me comphort...The time honered tradisions of give me a great sence of age of it all ie communion
so when i moved cghurches which is based on 7 principles, the lack of rules and strick ways was a bit scarie for me at first but it turned out to be just what i needed, theirs also order to services but less flamboyance of catholisisum....i let someone else take a turn.
even if its a ritual they perfor in private regulary that has some meaning for them i would give it credences ....as i don't belive you need manie people for things to be effective.
celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109211 - 03/19/07 03:08 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Many people will stumble over the truth as it is referred to as a "stumbling block to many". Ultimate truth is a concept many won't accept or embrace. That's to be expected. I wouldn't expect everyone to embrace the truth.
All one has to do is read Revelations to know how the end of time will play out. There will always be wars and rumors of wars. There will also be another ethnic cleansing, but it will be the Earth ridding herself of Christianity. I believe in the rapture of the saints, that in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, the saints of GOd will be caught up to meet him in the air, that the dead in Christ will rise, the graves will split open and we will meet Christ in the air and be with him forever.
Then the world will be Christianless, for lack of a better word. Finally!! Finally the world will experience freedom from these, as Celtic puts it, dominant peoples who have thought the only way to eternity with God was through the blood of Jesus Christ, his son. That should take care of things, right? A new era of peace and unity? Right, wrong! The new world leader will rise up from the midst of the 10 nations that will be left of the EEC. A powerful leader who promises world peace and harmony. Then she will turn on her own people and there will be no place to hide.
The only way, then that those who come to believe in CHrist at that late date will make it is to choose to be beheaded. Ancient mythology states that all power of the spirit can be taken over by the conqueror by decapitation. That's the logic behind and the religious belief behind the cannibals and head hunters. If you remove the head, the spirit and soul of the person comes to empower you.
Christians won't be able to buy or sell, we won't be able to get medical treatment, we won't be able to educate our children. We won't be able to work or draw welfare because we will refuse to take the mark of the EEC which is the sign of the beast.
Its all in Revelations. Its been there for centuries. That's why it is so important to be right.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109212 - 03/19/07 03:20 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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It doesn't matter how "good" you are or how much you give, or how much you "love". In my opinion any type of love outside the type of love exemplified by Christ is nothing but lust. Lust is a selfish kind of love that gives the lover something in return. There is a payoff for the loving. Unconditional love doesn't say, "what's in it for me?" It loves because Christ first loved you.
The Bible states that at the end of time there will be those who will say, "But, Lord, we cast out demons in your name, we gave to charities, we took food to the homeless and all in your name." In that day Christ will say, "Get thee behind me, you workers of iniquity for I never knew you." The word "knew" in the above text in Hebrew means the same thing as when Adam "knew" Eve and she conceived and bore a son. It involved intimacy. An intimate relationship with Christ is needed. A daily walk and talk with Him, an openness and conversation and willingness and desire to be what He wants us to be.
Its not about religion. Its not about theology or "the Church" or "the Reverend Doctor so and so." It is about you and me, everday Mary and Joe, knowing the Son of God and having a cup of coffee with Him everyday. Trusting Him with our lives, our children, our jobs, our relationships. He doesn't tolerate sin in any form, but he loves the sinner and isn't willing that anyone, even the sinner should perish, but the decision is up to us. He can't and won't make it for us.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109213 - 03/19/07 10:28 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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There will also be another ethnic cleansing, but it will be the Earth ridding herself of Christianity......END OF NL QUOTE
Well that be about one thired of the world populasion....would the world be better off without christianity or christions.....doubt that very much and i would miss manie dear frends...would i have any part in this or stand by and idealy watch it happen NO...not every christion person attempts or has an attitude of conversion and they still remain valad fervent christions
Think you miseunderstand me i am not anti-christion...it may not be my belifes but i no desiree for the erradicasion of anything weather its in my belife system or not. i love CASYS christ follower instead of christion distinction...that made sence to me and closer to what i belive, (christ as one of many) "guiding lights in the world"
Moreoften or not what we clash over and what i generallie find distasfull about anything is when one person, one ideology....one anything clames or tryes to creat a monopoly....when one person has to belive in a somthing in order to ..xyz or they will face terible consiquinces... thats attempts to take choice from the individuel, thats weer dominasion lives..
Throughout the thread NO ONE said christanity shouoldn't be heer, or be accepted..
HANILORE asked you a question, CASY gave you a grammatical suggestion....which was accurate and made sence....Was their any reason for ignoring any of the two ladies question suggestions? to focus and write what you did?, just curiouse....it might help us move on to new topic in the descusion...
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109214 - 03/19/07 10:30 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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celtic, at no time was I embarrassed or hurt. I was in a totally different place. I'm over it now. No apology necessary.
My younger brother called me Saturday. We ended up talking about a great many things mentioned on this thread - our discussion stemming from a statement I made about our mother. He is not a Christian. He doesn't believe that our salvation is based on what he calls a d--- j--. I asked if he would call him George or something as generic, if nothing else, but don't use d---j--. He obliged. We ended up laughing, even though my insides were curling in upon themselves.
Back to what we discussed... He told me he has been pronounced dead 3 times in his life (something I did not know). First time was a cycle accident. That time he said he remembers looking down at his body and everyone standing around him. But, most of his memory was about him trying to open his eyes and not being able to. He wasn't in his body to open them, or something like that. The second time he "died", he doesn't remember floating above his body, or much of anything else... no white lights, tunnels, etc. He has the document saying he was dead, tho. The third time he died, he was in Cambodia (during the Vietnam conflict) and was shot 3 times in the stomach. Again, he was pronounced dead. He remembers floating above his body that time, too. He didn't want to re-enter, he said. But the attendants kept working on him and he survived. He was unconscious for a long time, but when he regained consciousness, he said he was pissed. He said he didn't want to be back in this place. He said he saw no heaven, no hell, no white light, no tunnel, no loved ones waiting, etc. He might have some denial issues, or some memory loss, but that's not for me to judge. I was hoping to hear from him that he finally felt loved, tho.
We ended up laughing our a---- off. He's 11 months younger than I am, was reared by the same people, lived in the same environment, and we believe so differently... yet, we were able to talk, share deep feelings and respect each others' input... and come away laughing and thinking how wonderful it is to have someone to talk with on an interesting level.
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#109215 - 03/19/07 01:13 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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can't work out what a d---j---- is but thats my dyslexia but poin i got was it curling your insides but ya found a comprimise.
wow prononced dead 3 times is quite a lot...it gets kinda dishartening that heers someone that could bring proof one way or another of what the afterlife is like, the no tunnel or loved ones meeting might bring upset to some to heer of this...one thing that proves to an extent the aftrlife was that he was concise and "their" is some other form than the physical....but what was to be the next stage of that type of being can't be determind. A couple things might come into play as you say some memorie loss could be possible on reentering his bodie..Or he wasen't gonna stay dead so the next stage in afterlife wasen't to be reveled to him. For some recently dead they have short time of clinging to the life they know and what is a habit to them. Hence the decessed being at their own funeral etc. and also it can takes some time for the relisasion that they realie are dead to sink in....once it dose sink in then who (our loved ones and guides) have been with us all along become into focus for them....and then their guided over to the next stage...
I have had similer types of experinces without the being prononced dead....i was deap asleep...and rolled over fell off the bed but stoped half foot from htting growned face first, then something cought my attemsion at other side of room I simplie thought whats that their! and the next insten was over their...so it all went by though...high emotion brought me back into my bodie such as fear the first couple times i was afraid and then exitment lol...so a calm state was/is necassary for me to stay out for a good bit of time...but i don't get to wonder far ....
bet a few people also had thes types of experinces...
i know i been warrned maybee 60 seconds or so before an event and took action imediatly and becouse i took action my life was litrialie saved...thats happen a couple of times...Same in relation to other people close to me saved their lifes too at diffrent times. Whish that their was a longer warning period, once i had 1 week but couldn't work it out just new something was gonna happen, the day it did happen i was neer brakdown lol (ok thats a bit of exagirasion)....thats just a leap of faith to hear or feel then take action doing what one is asked or trying to work out what being senced as in the longer example...This example i wasent to do anything but just know about it i think..they did die but weer revived and ultimatly saved 5 times...
Anyone else want to share about any of this....
Do you want to tell the storie about your hug again...as it may be relivent at this stage of the conversasion...and its uplifting. I like it first i read it and not sure if it was in this section probebly a few havent read it...and it dose provide some evidence of continuasion of life.
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109216 - 03/19/07 01:37 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 06/05/06
Posts: 4136
Loc: American living in Europe
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Using your famous words, NL…"with all due respect", I'm going to throw in my two cents. ________________________________________________________________________________________ Imagine this. -- You are God. Would you use your power to instigate suffering after life? If so, … for what? You who are all mighty,…you the creator of all things,….why would you want to create a hell for people to burn in forever? Why would you, almighty God, even need it? Although, NL, you have the power to punish your grandchildren brutally, you would never do something like that;… throw their poor souls into an open fire? I think not! … So why on earth would you think that God Almighty would bow down to such resources?! What you claim you saw in your near-death experience are thoughts and dreams that come from your own mind and fears. These preachings of devils and hell are man- made myths, created to manipulate and dominate over people. They were used to control believers to benefit Kings and Lords. I can't understand how in our modern day society these beliefs still exist, other than they are being doctrined into innocent children's minds. Preachers live off their followers…No need to have a preacher if you don't have something to scare the people with. If I could, I'd give you a little pearly treasure box. When you open this box, peace and tranquillity will flow out and into your heart. You will feel like you are one with the world. Your fears and thoughts of the after-life will disappear. You breathe in deeply, and enjoy the here and now. Your soul is as rest knowing that no perils or ugly threats are awaiting you on the other side. You are a child in God's hands…a child that feels protected and loved and never threatened, for he is God, the Father of us all. And as you would not harm your own children, he would never allow your soul to be harmed. I believe we return to where we have come from; from the nothingness to freedom from strife, where no longings or fears accompany us. Peace
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#109217 - 03/19/07 03:12 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Wow, Gimster, three times is a lot. I had the white light/tunnel experience once, but it was a long time ago. I know at a deep level (for me) that eternity is a fog, a cloud, where we all rejoin together. (again, my belief) It's very peaceful.
Of course, there was an article in Time Magazine that said that brain researcher's believe that the tunnel/light thing is just being deprived of oxygen! Go figure! LOL
Celtic, church doctrine's are things like only men can be priests, ministers, etc., the hierarchy of bishops, etc., the literature that is used. Things like that. For example, in the Muslim world, the Koran has (in theory, at least) the words that Mohammed wrote based on what he heard from God. There is another book containing the hadiths which describe what Mohammed said and did during his life. The hadiths give rise to a lot of the doctrine of Islam, including the covering of women and much of the excess of the Taliban.
For me, the absolute following of doctrine and words written in a certain culture and time that cause many of the problems we see between religions. For example, the Bible says we should stone women for adultry. Do we want to do that? I don't think so, but there is a certain sect in the world that believes that we must follow what the Bible says literally -- every word. They are for the stoning of women adulterers.
Fortunately, Jesus came along and suggested that those without sin throw the first stone and no one did. The message there, as well as one of my favorite sayings that you can't see the log in your own eye for looking at the speck in someone else's, reminds me to mind my business and work on myself before forcing my beliefs and doctrine on someone else.
As always, my beliefs -- take what you like and leave the rest.
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109218 - 03/19/07 06:53 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Quote:
Imagine this. -- You are God. Would you use your power to instigate suffering after life? If so, … for what? You who are all mighty,…you the creator of all things,….why would you want to create a hell for people to burn in forever? Why would you, almighty God, even need it?
Hannelore, I can't even begin to imagine the mind of God. For all I know, we may all just be an experiment in the mind of God. What I DO know is that He can and will do whatever He wants. We are His creation and this was originally His world.
Not the earth is ruled by Satan. God intervenes in the hearts and minds of the people He created, but God, as Father and Creator loves and doesn't want to be loved by force. He wants us to freely choose to love and obey and serve and worship Him. He is Holy and all who worship Him must do it in Spirit and in Truth.
I don't think we have to attend a church to have an intimate relationship with Christ. I think it helps US to be connected and interact with other believers.
My dad is and was a pastor all his life. He didn't need the church to support his family of 7. He was bi-vocational. I've never known a more sincere and loving and devoted and sharing and giving man in my entire life. His church wasn't about money. It was about sharing what we had, about lifting up our church family members in prayer, about visiting them in the hospital, about baby showers and weddings and funerals. My dad has brought more children into the world, dedicated them and buried them of old age than many of us can imagine.
I know a multitude of good men who pastor churches and their families go without food and clothing that the other families have. Many times we had no money, but people brought us produce and a chicken or a goose or a rabbit.
One Christmas my dad didn't have any money so he and mom put IOU's on the CHirstmas tree. After he got his check from the railroad, they made the iou's good.
Let me ask you a question. Did you just let your kids run around the neighborhood stealing, raping, sleeping with the same sex, pillaging, lieing, cheating on their tests and taking drugs? Well, why would a loving Father do that anyway? Just as a loving father corrects his children for their own good and so they will feel loved and taken care of and like "somebody's" in charge, so God corrects and chastized his own children.
Hell was created for Satan and his demons, not for people. Because we have free will and free choice, we can decide for ourselves (1) who we will serve and (2) where we will spend eternity. It breaks the heart of God for a person (not necessarily His own) to opt for service to Satan.
Thank you for the pearl box, but Hannelore, I'm happy and at peace. I WASN'T for a lot of years. I was depressed and had anxiety issues, but now I know what it's like to feel at peace and to have my future on solid ground.
I don't have to waver with every wind of doctrine that blows. My feet and mind are on a solid foundation and there is a lot of peace and contentment in that. God gave me grandchildren and my youngest daughter back. He supplied 30,000 from the sale of a house I'd given back to the bank so that I could buy this one and have a place for my family to live. He brought me back from the dead and has given me such liberty to grow and mature in Him. He's given me His own wisdom and His ability to love.
Why would I need a box. Look at the trouble a box got Pandora. Christianity is rock solid and has been since....well, let's see, from Christ, maybe?? lol
Jesus IS Lord to the glory of God the Father. Mohammed's bones are petrified. The bodies of all the prophets can be found and identified. The body of the risen Christ, will never be found because it was glorified and He sits at the right hand of the Father to make intercession for us, and believe me, we need it.
He's a cheap lawyer, go figure..? My husband and I are polar in our differences and beliefs, but he tells me he respects me more than he ever has any woman in his life. I love him with the love of CHrist and he tells me he's never been loved that way before. You should try it. Its all good. 
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Aarikja Ann
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#109219 - 03/19/07 07:07 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Casey, in my flavor of Christianity, women are evangelists and preachers. I personally don't believe in women pastors any more than I would like to be ruled by a female president, but I think there are some wonderful, intelligent and passionate women in places of great authority and I'm proud of them and admire them.
I pray for my husband every day that God will give him a new heart and will change him from the inside out. I pray that even though he isn't a believer that God will give him wisdom and courage for leadership and headship over me.
I see my husband as God must see him and grieve for him as God must grieve for him. I take care of him and try to treat him with respect and unconditional love even though often times he doesn't show the same to me.
At the same time, I'm being a true daughter of my Father and being as wise as a fox, I have my own home, my own car, a job and am fully supportive of myself with God's help.
I'm sorry my words offend you. It's not easy being an unbeliever. The Bible says the ways of the trangressor are hard. Life will never be easy for anyone unless and until they completely surrender their will to Christ and give him the reigns of control.
I truly DO care with all my heart. I'm sorry you feel the way you do about me, but I'm only doing and saying things that need to be said.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109220 - 03/19/07 07:20 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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My beliefs are in the hearts of religions/beliefs which are very similar, not in the doctrine.END CADSYS QUOTE...
got it it took a few times of re reading it with the answere you gave.....But basiclie what you are saying is from your extensife studie you have found a lot of similarities in the belifes at the hart of any religion but religions doctrines is what devides and seperates the religions. So not the core belifes... couse their similare but the doctinasion (rules and culture of the religion)is what creates the diffrence between people ways of worship and wrights and wrongs.....
CASEY IS MY UNDERSTANDING OK RE THE ABOVE AND WHAT YOU MENT
I might be misebntrepriting what your saying to my way of thinking..it as its something similare to what i belive and have said heer (or one other of the threads)
Also i wasent sure if it was within your hart, your religions hart or all religons harts that you weer first refairing to...but at the hart of the religons is what you ment
Its not something i have officalie studied as you have but informal studie and my own research showed me the same thing. Is your studie for ministrie a gateway to becoming a minister of such....
I would love to see the basic principles of all religions upheld or in some form unified.....into some cohesive whole, based on the love/respect of god, the love of man/woman, the love of earth..etc. something that would unite people and not devide them.....
a new religion for those that would want it taken from all the great texts core belifes about the world and afterlife, more as a guidline for living as a moral productive respectfull life....
I like the new age movement and their a lot of similarities between diffrent philosiphes ....but its a bit fragmented...yea it makes the indivduel search hard to find or make sence of it all but it lacks communite and a commonalitie of teaching...
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109221 - 03/19/07 07:23 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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You are all free thinkers and open minded, sane, rational and logical. That's a very admirable quality. I deeply respect your input.
Because you are open minded and possess the ability to reason, imagine for a moment that what I'm telling you is the truth. Not just one of many "truths" but THE truth.
Imagine that I'm right in what I'm saying to you about life, about the afterlife, about living your life today and tomorrow, in your interactions with your children, your husbands, and your families.
What if I'm right? Is being politically correct worth it? Is it?
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Aarikja Ann
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#109222 - 03/19/07 07:27 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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NEWLAF..i wouldnt let lucien rape, pilage, etc....but i would let him do somethings in your "not to do list"....as he wouldn't be harming anyone... wearas rape dose certinlie harm someone (the victum more)and also both parties involved..
even if he did chose to rape....i would forgive him...hopwever i could and most certinly not turn my back on him. Nurture and love him back to a place of understanding that what he did was wrong, in harming another why that hurt is wrong, what he took or how he made that person feel......not simplie place him in a place (hell) and turn my back on him for eternitie....
is that not more of what a corrective parent would do? to use your parent anoligy
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109223 - 03/19/07 07:33 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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no thank you i don't need to go pasty old ground in my immaginings........and itsnot about political correctness, thats an all too handie cover all for you...
So can i aske you the same question in reverse.....HAVE you for one minete considered in the last fortnight that you may be WRONG...not wrong for us but wrong in the ultimate way of being wrong...and you weer trying to lead us from our pathway of love, into a darker scarrier place....
directing the question to all parties including yourself...in the last few weeks....how open minded have you been?.... NL quote.(WE ARE)...all free thinkers and open minded, sane, rational and logical.end QUOTE
Have you been any of the above...while telling the rest of us that we are doomed to a life of hell in the afterlife.....and the emphasis heer is TELLING THE REST OF US OUR FATE..
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109224 - 03/19/07 07:44 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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the other thing is this is a descusion not a place for you to give sermones or for you to dame anyone.....your preaching and trying to convert....
not the spirit of this thread.....as in the first page....
BUT MORE IMPORTNATLY NOT THE RULES OF THE FORUM ---RE-READ THEM PLEASE
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109226 - 03/19/07 08:14 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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New Leaf, I am not offended. I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with you. Nor do I choose to pick up the label of "transgressor" that you tossed my way. You can keep that. :-))
How do I feel about you? I love you with the spirit in my heart and soul. In my belief you are part of me, just having a different experience. I respect you for what you have done and accomplished. And I honor and respect your belief system, which you regard as true. I just don't own it as mine. Perhaps we can just agree to disagree on that point? You feel you are right and I feel you are right for you, but not me?
And those are my feelings for all the people on this thread. I can't say my feelings are that way for all people on earth (LOL!). I'm working on it -- but not there, yet! :-))
My study is to gain greater understanding of the Christian religion in all its denominations. It also gives me a chance to access the wisdom in the Bible -- and there is some there for me, even though I don't believe every word. I also find as I move on in life, that the words I read in my 20s and 30s don't resonate the same in my 50s. It's the result of life lived, I guess.
We all bring our own perspective to our lives. I haven't lived the life of anyone else on this thread, so I don't bring the same life to my understanding of God. That's why I love talking and listening about other people's understanding of God and how spirituality in all its forms changes our lives (or not).
God's presence in my life, when I am open to listening to her, gives me light and life and more capacity to love my life and the world around me than I could ever have imagined possible.
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109227 - 03/19/07 08:35 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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yea and you also get great ahaaa moments when someone else explanes something or cites an example and its just the right one for you at that particulare minet.
its great that the bible still inspires you and you find its wisdom in new ways or interpritasions from what you previouslie thought...It be nice to have the chance to studie and find the common ground within all the christion denominasions....in some sence their has to be loads becouse are they not all veriasions of the same basic storie, just diffrent slants. I got the shock of my life the first time i became aware that all christions fought when all belive the same god and basic storie...
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109229 - 03/19/07 11:42 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Anno]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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yea questioning is part ofmy spiritual dipipline is an ongoing monitoring process as its too easiy to get behind a belife system assome you fit it and living it in your life and forgete to cheek or reevaluate....So i aske myself what if i am right about stuff but also what if i am wrong....somehow within a big organisasion that TELLS one they are right the indivduel lets them do the thinking for them and stops evaluating. I still belive in my personal responcibilitie MINE so i best make sure i am doing the best i can, with my life. especillie if i gonna infuence or tell anyone else to change their mind regarding their belifes. Obviously i got some prettie strong held belifes about certine things, things i am also pasionate about. Personal experinces that leaves no room for doubt about certine things. One thing about me is i never run out of questions especillie in the area of spirtuality. One one something gets answered their room for another question to get asked...I like it that way and my own personal certinty sustaines me under havy fire at times and at crossroads in life.
The the type of religion i belong to is one that allows me my personal responcibilitie tells me of an all loving god but lets me know their are consiquinces in the afterlife for our actions (like their are in earth good and not good consiquinces)...no not hell or anything near it but real true sufferring like comming to fullie relise the pain you actulie have coused and having no one else to blame barn yourself for that pain....Have you ever felt true sorrow? then thats trulie hell...it dosen't sound like hell or all that scarrie and its not ment to but thats sufferring indeed...but one that will stop when we evolve enough to understand what we have done, when we forgive ourselfs and when sufficent amends have been conducted. I try to do my ammends in this life whenever i can. We all go to that hell and by learning and evolving we then go to heaven....(using those words in relashion to this spacific content not the biblical notion of hell)
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109230 - 03/19/07 11:48 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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The new ministers stuff you weer talking about ANNO is scarrie and sad on manie levels. Its sad that in this day and age their not enough understanding that people are just fine as they are gay or straight. Behaviourist psychology famed for trying to deprograme homosexules, they had some succeses, some sucicides and added a lot of hurt and harm to the people they infected...with the trying to cure the homosexule...Sometimes out of peoples best intensions (according to them) happend great wrong doings. If their was a homosexule gene and it could be identified then would a lot more people become pro-choice, would that also include disabilities mental or physical etc. Once in time slaviery was ok, the hollocost was ok, the inquisition was ok...them time turnes people get more evolved and find out that the stuff that was once ok and right and proper that they do was wrong to do all along...after years of shouting and screeming about their rightness and their rights to whatever it may be, it must take one big fall in ego and pride to face the truth of the destruction in the world and to personal lives just becouse they weer sure slavierie or such was so verie right......and then how do you explain that to your god, who will forgive you but their will always remain consiquinces to all our humanlie actions. Like the mass destruction of culture and societie created by some missonary work...At times i hate the uk historie becouse of the empirilistick attitude and actions, who gave them the right...who indeed. Thats on a par with missonarie work or similar in action and attitude, and no i don't meen all misonarie work..I also havent read that book. I gave up debating and wonderring if their a gay gene or anything like that when i clicked that i didn't need cured, that i was perfect as i am, that i have a place in heaven along with every one of us, that if i had a choice (which off course i have) that i would not chose a diffrent lifestyle for me, despite the descriminasion, harrasment and nonsences your faced with living a "in or out" homosexule lifestyle...and one i am not sorrie about (oh how dare i to be happie and unrepentant lol)As with all of life their are disadvantiges like which i have just named, but off course their are advantiges.....otherwise why would we be so resistent to changing life style, of course their manie advantiges to this lifestyle....
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109232 - 03/20/07 05:37 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Anno]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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My words are meaningless. My life experiences are meaningless to anyone but me. The writers of the Bible refer to it as a Pearl of Great Price. So I'd like to just end my part of the conversation in this way and with these words which aren't my own since Casey, you seem to look for wisdom within its pages, and Celtic and others, you seem to be open to more understanding of spiritual issues:
Romans 1:17-32
"For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of man, who hold the truth in unrighteousness:
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has shown it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore, God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves.
Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for evr. A-men.
For this reason God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use of their bodies into that which is against nature.
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness,maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
I love my GK's and daughters very, very much. I wouldn't destroy them for committing rape, Celtic, or any other sin. But, if my children and how well I know this personally, broke the law of the land, there are places where they are taken for years for things like selling drugs, taking a life, concealing a weapon, stealing. Nothing I can do can prevent my precious ones from going there if they are law breakers.
I didn't create prison or the electric chair or the gas chamber. I wouldn't! But those places are necessary because people choose to break the law and no amount of compassion for them will take the keys away.
God didn't create Hell for you or your's or for mankind at all. It was created for Satan and his demons and some day they will go there forever, but not all mankind chooses to be a child of God. Some precious creations of God choose to serve another master. If you aren't serving God then you are serving his arch enemy and don't know it.
You can't serve two masters. If you are self serving, then your master isn't God and there are only two of them.
I'm so far from what I would like to be. I slip up everyday in one way or another and have to ask God for forgiveness. I, for one, need guidance and wisdom and love. I've found peace and comfort but I need more of God's love. I don't want or wish to argue. The Truth is too precious to argue over it. I'd much rather show you the love of God by having more of Him in my life.
Its a weight scale for me...too much of one thing tips it in a way you don't want it to go, too much of another and it goes the other way. I'm going to pray for each of you in the Spirit and for myself too that God will allow me to be a conduit of His love for you.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109233 - 03/20/07 06:22 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Is Christianity the One True Religion? by Hank Hanegraaff Why are Christians so arrogant in claiming that they alone possess the truth? Don't all religions lead to God?... religions harbor irreconcilable differences, demonstrating that they cannot all possibly lead to the same God. Logically speaking, they can all be wrong, but they cannot all be right. We, therefore, need to ask which religion points to the right God and consider how certain its claims really are. Regarding these questions, Christianity towers above the other religions of the world. (I love this part:) For instance, while every other religion would have humanity try to reach up to God, Christianity says God reaches down to humanity. In other words, God's favor was obtained for humankind by Christ's life, death, and resurrection, and not by our own human merit (Eph. 2:8-9). ... All people, regardless of their religious circumstances, need to hear and heed Christ's message because Jesus pointed to Himself as the only way to God (John 14:6). If you've never listened to the Bible Answer Man, Hank Hannegraff, and you'd like to, you can do so here: http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Bible_Answer_Man/Article.asp?article_id=198 He is well learned, well versed and makes a great deal of sense of things. I use to listen to this guy every noon when I was working. He was my lunch buddy, so to speak. Check out his audio archives, or catch him live. BTW, he answered emails I sent him, in the past. He's so busy now, though, I don't know that he still responds, personally. He does answer questions, if you call in to his radio talk show and you get through.
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#109235 - 03/20/07 09:25 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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NL QUOTE you seem to be open to more understanding of spiritual issues: END QUOTE
yea as always i am more open to spiritual issues However you pick your section or quotes from the bible ARE QUESTIONABLE as not to promote or furtheir anyones spiritual understanding (how manie times have you chosen to print this passage) but in some way to couse hurt or offense or bad feeling, or just to keep us (all) in line...not becouse you say so but according to your interpritasion of a holie book...i don't think your as naive as you would have us belive but its a clocked attempt at discord. Sorrie but theirs none in this hart...
It wouldn't matter so much if you held your belifes, which you are fullie entitled to and they weer harmless but it remaines that they are not harmless...This passage of the bible is questionable as are all passages, as we have previouslie descussed ...but holding it in is litrale interpritasion creates and maintaines attitudes of hate, homobiobia, descriminasion, violences and even death.....all in the name of god (or your interpritasion of him)...Pitie you never chose loving supportive passagess
please dont pray for me i can do without that thanks all the same.
Your kids or anyones have commited crime, yes their is prisons and punishments for crim as their should be.....then rehabilitasion. No were have i said that anyone should escape consiquinces for their actions, on earth or heaven and they will.
However it wont be the eternal suferring and damnasion as you repeatidly clam it to be......i think in my last post i made it more than clear what my view on the afterlife is according to my belifes in relation to hell....So no need to go over them again...
god bless you in your attempts at finding guidance and wisdom, love and forgivness....
i whish you all that i whish for myself, as you are, your just perfect as i am however that dose not mean that evolosion towarda a more spiritual way is necassary....for me in my mind and my hart i am doing that, and thank you i am just pefect the way i am as you are...
ANNO THANKS your just pefect as you are too.
HL DR suess you crack me up love lol but funnie weer wisdom can be found, even in books for our kids....
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109236 - 03/20/07 09:26 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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GIMSTERE . christianity has manie diffrent donominasion which all belive and claim to be "the way"...i not sure how one can amalgimate all the diffrent disiplines, as they all have diffrent doctrines and ways of interpriting the bible...then catholisisum with its dogma, sants and so on. Christianity as we have discovered throught this thread has manie diffrent facits.....Also is their muslums willing to steap forward and descuss their belifes, and buddists willing to do the same......In the absences of that it's only christians descussing which version of christianity is right.....and off course it be the one the indivduel belongs to.... for one to discuss "if christianity is the one true religion" we have to discredit other religions and say they are wrong .....and those of other religions will have to say christianity is wrong becouse theirs is right. In worst case sinario ....Just a question, is this wise?.....or am i being overly cautious.... i be more comportable discussion the "one true way" as in what caricteristicks are true to god, or the pathway to god ie love, compasion, forgivness, tollerances, concinse, dedicasion to god, acceptance for all and such.... For me their is at the present my, religion which is, not necassarilie christion in fact it dosent alline itself with any of the majour religons as its more intrested in pathways to god. However it is filld with christions from all denominasions and other religions too. That for me is the "true religon" (for want off a better word)as i am all for inclusion to god, heaven for all people etc. If this wasent the one for me then i wouldn't follow it.... Thats about as far as i am willing to discuss the validity of any religion being "thee true or the only valid one". abyway their only 2 in the descusion who identifie as christion, the rest are "other"...but if you can pull it off with no hurt feeling then..go girlsss  cheers celtic
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109237 - 03/20/07 11:32 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Recently I read about someone describing himself as a "grace" Christian as opposed to a "law" Christian. For me, a "grace" Christian is one who believes that they are saved (or loved unconditionally, or however you want to interpret "saved") by God through grace, not through acts. A "law" Christian would be one who believes that they can only be saved by performing certain acts and following certain beliefs. Paul (who was quoted by both NL and Gimster(via Hank's site)) came from a particular Jewish sect that was very law-oriented. As I read through the texts, I can see where this orientation plays out in his efforts to create a new church. Paul is interesting because of the various ways he talks to his different congregations to get them to form into organizations. He's also got some beautiful things to say, as well as some really hateful things to say -- some of which contradict each other. And some of which contradict what Jesus says and does. So I am always curious why, to some people, what Paul says and does trumps Jesus. Gimster, I took a look at Hank's site and the Christian Research Institute behind it. Two things stand out to me. One is that Hank is a "rapture/last days" believer. I don't subscribe to that particular belief, although I understand that there are many who do. The second is the following quote from the "What We Believe" page of the CRI site: Quote:
(1) The Holy Scriptures, comprised of Old and New Testaments, are fully and verbally inspired by God and are therefore infallible in the original writings and completely trustworthy in all areas in which they speak. Their central salvation message and essential teachings are clear and accessible to all who follow the standard and self-evident rules of literary interpretation. They are therefore the supreme, unmediated, and final authority of faith and practice for every believer.
And, as I've said before, I don't subscribe to literal interpretation of the Bible, although I accept that there are those that do.
Most of the time, I am willing to live and let live in terms of faith, but I know that Celtic has a point. There's beliefs that lead to some pretty harsh actions and the "LGBT is sinful" is one. Innocent people have been killed over that. And I just read about the statements by Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr. regarding "correcting" homosexuals before birth (Hannalore referred to this) and I am aghast. However, I can't put my reaction better than this one: Quote:
My question is that if we can alter sexual orientation prenatally can we alter hate, stupidity, and fear while the future child is a fetus. If there was something about humans that can be altered what would be the most dangerous characteristic we have as a species? Is it really sexual orientation?
So, where does a simple difference of belief in how we worship God/dess begin and end? Where does our personal belief begin to adversely affect other people?
Think back to when people were corrected because they were left-handed. For far too long, people viewed left-handedness as the "sign of the devil."
Just curious and don't mean to offend. These are my beliefs. Sorry for being so long-winded.
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109238 - 03/21/07 02:02 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Quote:
Once in time slaviery was ok, the hollocost was ok, the inquisition was ok...them time turnes people get more evolved and find out that the stuff that was once ok and right and proper that they do was wrong to do all along...after years of shouting and screeming about their rightness and their rights to whatever it may be, it must take one big fall in ego and pride to face the truth of the destruction in the world and to personal lives just becouse they weer sure slavierie or such was so verie right......and then how do you explain that to your god, who will forgive you but their will always remain consiquinces to all our humanlie actions.
Slavery has never been "OK". Even so, the Celts (Gauls), the Romans, the Greeks, Northern Africans,
Africans and so many more cultures I can't even mention them all, owned slaves. All one has to do is study a bit of history to see that it has been documented that in North America the majority of black slaves were sold into slavery by their own people.
My own grandmother was a bond servant sold into slavery by her own father. The major cultures of the world have utilized slaves to build their cultures but it has never been a good thing for the slaves except that in their slavery many people who suffered found Christ and have passed that wonderful heritage on from generation to generation.
Hitler was a German who was empowered by Satan. He hated the Jewish race and tried to expunge them from the face of the earth. The Jewish race are God's chosen people. Only a God hater would try to erase the chosen people of God. Christians support our Jewish brothers and sisters completely. That is pretty evident politically, I think.
There will never be a day when there will be an amalganization of all the religions of the earth because what fellowship does light have with darkness. If you are not for Christ in this life, you are against Him and not a friend of God.
The whole reason God sent Jesus was to make a way for fallen man to come to Him. He knew how evil the heart of man has the capability to become.
I have never understood how anyone can try and lump sexual orientation into slavery, or the holocaust when that particular political block has more sanctions than any other and more government money goes to politically correct organizations and blocks within that faction than any other.
Its offensive to me for that faction to try and jump on the bandwagon with people like my grandmother who had to work out their freedom and like my brothers and sisters whose lives meant nothing in the concentration camps of Europe.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109239 - 03/21/07 02:45 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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The most effective way to discredit another person's beliefs is to attempt to lump them in with all the others and attempt to make it just one of many, to dilute it. It won't work. When I mentioned to my co-workers, one of which is from Jamaica and a Christian, others around me who are young and black, they were incredulous. They couldn't believe that a lifestyle could be equated with slavery. They added that "if you try to dilute the Truth all one would have to do is boil it down and all the others would go up in steam, while the Truth would be stronger than ever."
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Aarikja Ann
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#109240 - 03/21/07 07:17 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Christianity was given to us by Christ.
Denominations were brought to us by man.Even as I write this post, another piece of some denomination is probably splintering off to become yet another group. I find a distinct difference between Christianity and dogma/doctrine. So, best we lay denominations aside and get to the core - Christ - that is, if we choose to continue discussing "Christianity." However, as a reminder, the original quest behind this thread was in sharing how we envision, feel and/or hear God. I'll admit, your post made me feel a bit like you were defining sides and drawing a line in the sand. I, personally, will not be a participant in side taking. You may label me anyway you like. It doesn't change me for me. I will share my beliefs freely, AS WELL AS listen to others as they share theirs. For that is what I want - to share ideas, learning more........ that's all.
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#109241 - 03/21/07 07:18 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Hannelore, your quote is so fitting!!!! And well worth reposting: Quote:
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~~Dr. Seuss
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#109242 - 03/21/07 08:11 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Casey quotes; my responses in blueQuote:
...a "grace" Christian as opposed to a "law" Christian.
This is kind of bothersome (to me), as "Christianity" is all about "grace" and not about legalities. Through believing in Christ (the foundation of Christianity), we are saved by grace, pure and simple.
Quote:
Paul, (a man) came from a particular Jewish sect that was very law-oriented.
Paul was establishing laws for the church of Christ, not for salvation.
I've not been exposed to a situation where someon claimed what Paul said trumps what Jesus said. I've yet to get a good response from anyone, clergy or otherwise, about the contridictions in the Bible. But, I have read verses, on different occasions, for different reasons, and with several years in between readings, when the meaning appeared differently to me.
Quote:
Two things stand out to me. One is that Hank is a "rapture/last days" believer. I don't subscribe to that particular belief,...
I rejected the belief for many years. I still have doubts creep in concerning it. But, I do believe in the last days.
Quote:
(1) The Holy Scriptures, comprised of Old and New Testaments, are fully and verbally inspired by God and are therefore infallible in the original writings and completely trustworthy in all areas in which they speak.
Note the bold and underlined. I do believe this. I just don't know Hebrew to interpret the original writings for myself. I have to trust what is available, as well as discern from the offerings what is truth for me.
Quote:
...as I've said before, I don't subscribe to literal interpretation of the Bible, ...
I've also said that I have somewhat of a problem with translations. Here again, I have to trust in the Holy Spirit leading me to glean the divine meaning from what I read.
Quote:
... I know that Celtic has a point.
Celtic has some good points, as do many others, you being a primary... purpose here is to share those points. Some may come off sounding forceful, but who can fault someone for displaying passion for what they believe? Or caring so much, they can't risk wrapping the words in a package of "feel good" just so the message will be acceptable to all? I can't.
Quote:
So, where does a simple difference of belief in how we worship God/dess begin and end?
I would say in genuine "understanding."
Quote:
Where does our personal belief begin to adversely affect other people?
I answer, "only I can allow something to affect me."
Quote:
Just curious and don't mean to offend. These are my beliefs. Sorry for being so long-winded.
You are a kind soul, Casey... at no time have you offended me. I respect your input, as I feel you respect mine.
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#109243 - 03/21/07 09:15 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Today I watched CNN reporting about the war in Iraq. There was a map on the board describing how our military had built a long bridge across the Euphrates river and reference was made to the Bible revelations regarding the last days when the enemy would cross the Euphrates river to battle the final war of Armegeddon.
It was at that very instant when all the discussion and petty fighting between those of us who think we are wise, including myself, just fell away.
Prophecy is becoming reality in our lifetime. The Bible refers over and over to the crossing of the Euphrates river and to the countries that will join together against Israel in that final battle. China, Russia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc., and today I saw it for myself and held my head down in reverence to God. We have no right to question or think ourselves to be anything but dust but for the Glory of God our Creator.
The day will come and it won't be long when we will all be faced with ourselves and our decisions, myself included. Then shoes, and younger men, and our bodies and travel and vacations will seem like cotton candy compared to our eternity and where we will spend it.
I don't mean to be doom and gloom, ladies. Each of you, whether or not you believe it, are special to me. For some reason you have all come into my life and its no small thing to come into my life because I pray for those who cross my path and my journey. I adopt you and love you and cherish the thought of you and the things you do and accomplish.
I may not drip syrup and appear to be all up in your business like some, but I care.
There's not a thing I miss of your lives and the sweetness and kindness I see. Hannelore is a great woman with feeling and spunk, Meredithbead loves her husband and is such a strong spirit, Eagleheart has the most tender spirit I've seen in a long time and I think about you every day. Anno, is a searcher and a pragmatist, jawjaw is a comedian yet has deep feelings, she must have been the baby of the family. Celtic is a lot like me, a domineering soul who likes to be in charge, and Dotsie is a mega nurturer who cares about everyone and her own family in particular.
Chicadee is a dreamer and a poet, a kind and gentle spirit. Dee has been in so much pain...don't be lost to us, Dee. Stay with us. Don't be discouraged by our debate and discussion. Its all in the family.
We all have this in common, we love our families and our children. We share a common thread and that is a desire to connect and to be of service to others, to be accepted.
I give you my word that I will listen with my heart from now on and not my convictions, though, I can't give them up and won't because I believe, therefore I know.
Allow me the strength of my convictions and just as we have a category here in this forum called passion, allow me my passion and that is Christ Jesus.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109245 - 03/21/07 11:09 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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CASYS QUOTE...And, as I've said before, I don't subscribe to literal interpretation of the Bible, although I accept that there are those that do.....
So, where does a simple difference of belief in how we worship God/dess begin and end? Where does our personal belief begin to adversely affect other people?...There's beliefs that lead to some pretty harsh actions and the "LGBT is sinful" is one. Innocent people have been killed over that. END CASYS QUOTE.
CASY from one who is "within" christianity ...thanks for that understanding and connection, between scripture, descriminasion, prejudices fuled killing, in the name of god....or more accuritly the bible and its interpritasions being used as the justificasion of such hate and prejidice...I don't and can't belive for one second that this is the true representasion of god or of christ and how he showed us to live our lives and conduct our affairs....how could murder and descriminasion leading to untold amounts of pain for verie manie poeple be the example of christ legacy on this earth....
its just the justificasion of ignorances hate and prejidice and the focus of the bible being used as a batterring ram...and in sincerity i hope and pray that god forgives them that use his legacy in such ways to bring such miserie...as wel as leading them to the relizasion of the error of their ways....theirs always hope
their are manie popeople seriouslie and adversly affected by this stances and theas types of statments. Fortunitly i am not one of them.....On behalf of the people who are, i will always speak out agenst it as i would any other type of descriminasion...and you never know the propergaters of such hate and fear might come to their senseas as to what their true motives are and what the true effect this has on the world and people.
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109247 - 03/21/07 01:28 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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Quote:
Hitler was a German who was empowered by Satan. He hated the Jewish race and tried to expunge them from the face of the earth.....
......There will never be a day when there will be an amalganization of all the religions of the earth because what fellowship does light have with darkness. If you are not for Christ in this life, you are against Him and not a friend of God.
NL QUOTE
thats right hitler certinly wasen't working in the light when he did what he did, to JEWS, GYPSIES, TRAvELERS, HOMOSEXULES (hence the pink and black trinagles word in rembeernce of the holocoust by G&L,B)
As your second quote.....if you don't support christ...your in the dark, not a frend of god, ...what dose "fellowship does light have with darkness"...thats a nice respectfull view to enforce or label all other world religons, and people: those who arn't christion, those on the fence etc......But their only your belifes i know..i know..
However saying there will never be a day when their will NEVER be a one world religion....or ONE WORLD belife in god....weer people will not be devided by religion INSTEAD OF UNITITED IN GOD FOR GOD,......is fortunitly not yours to decide upon. Who knows what is in store for us as we move towards love understanding and TRUE fellowship of man/woman kind in the future. Is that such a bad thing???
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109248 - 03/21/07 01:49 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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Quote:
Christianity was given to us by Christ.
Denominations were brought to us by man..... I find a distinct difference between Christianity and dogma/doctrine. So, best we lay denominations aside and get to the core - Christ - that is, if we choose to continue discussing "Christianity."....
However, as a reminder, the original quest behind this thread was in sharing how we envision, feel and/or hear God.
I'll admit, your post made me feel a bit like you were defining sides and drawing a line in the sand.
gymsters quotes...
If you were refairing to my post: THEN my answere. i was hopefull that diffrent docturns could be left aside but unsure as to weather they could or would be.....and conserned weather it be wise to descuss this due to the above biases between christions come throw more than anything productive....regarding descussion. I thought i made that clear in the post, maybe not?
At that point the people active in the descusions was 2 christions and the rest for want of a better word "other".
Again i was concered....as to how productive or calmlie it all be descussed with all sides or belifes being upheld with respect?
it was a question (above) and a statment...(below)
Two people (newlie) active in parts of the descusion over the last few days have droped out, for whatever reason...i am not participating as i have allreadie said i do not whish to talke agenst christianity regarding weather it is the one true or not religion...
I will happilie waite in the thread let you NL and casiey descuss it amounst your selfs (as you have been) and when or if it comes back to god then i rejoine.....you never know some people may rejoin or start in the conversasion now it has taken this turn...
no label was given to you gimster apart from one you had previouslie given yourself. No line in the sand had been drawen....and since i am a bit unsure as to what that refaired to hence (some) of this post.
Now we all clear and up to speed, regarding my part i whish yous good conversasions ladies.
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109249 - 03/21/07 03:08 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Quote:
I answer, "only I can allow something to affect me."
(Gimster)
In the abstract, I totally agree with that, Gimster. It's primarily how I keep from getting offended (most of the time, LOL!).
However, I know of instances where people's beliefs (sometimes motivated by religious viewpoints and sometimes not) have caused great harm to others in this country and in this time. A lesbian friend of mine was dragged behind a truck to get her to change her ways. And Matthew (in Wyoming) was hung on a barbed wire fence and left to die (in a bizarre image of Christ's death) because he was homosexual.
And to flip it a bit, abortion clinics exist because of beliefs that life does not begin at conception. To others, that is murder because they do believe that life begins at conception. And alternatively, the extreme ends of that debate have killed abortionists because they believed that abortionists were murderers and Satanical.
(Ladies, please, I don't want to go off on the abortion rant, I'm just making a point that beliefs do lead to actions that can cause harm to others. :-))
Even in terms of verbal beliefs, you can choose to engage or leave it alone in many cases, but what if you are in a situation where someone is constantly denigrating your beliefs and you need the job, or its a parent, or a co-worker?
I find it hard to believe that God/dess wants any of this.
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109250 - 03/21/07 03:18 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Quote:
But, I have read verses, on different occasions, for different reasons, and with several years in between readings, when the meaning appeared differently to me.
This is sooo true!
Yes, Paul was establishing laws for the church. I think the point that the person was making between grace and law (I wish I could remember who it was -- might have been Mitt Romney), was that there are people who believe that you have to do more than believe in Christ -- that there are certain doctrines that you need to subscribe to -- such as women are submissive to men. (I bet you can guess how well that goes over with me! LOL!)
Quote:
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Paul was establishing laws for the church of Christ, not for salvation.
I really wish everyone thought that way, Gimster.
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109251 - 03/21/07 05:13 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Quote:
Quote:
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I answer, "only I can allow something to affect me."
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(Gimster)
In the abstract, I totally agree with that, Gimster. It's primarily how I keep from getting offended (most of the time, LOL!).
I "LOL'd" at "most of the time", too. I like to think I don't let myself get offended, but I know I do sometimes (especially when it comes to one of my parents). It's how I handle the offended feeling that has changed so dramatically. I analyze the cause and try to work with effect. It may take a while, but I usually "gitterdone."
Quote:
However, I know of instances where people's beliefs (sometimes motivated by religious viewpoints and sometimes not) have caused great harm to others in this country and in this time. A lesbian friend of mine was dragged behind a truck to get her to change her ways. And Matthew (in Wyoming) was hung on a barbed wire fence and left to die (in a bizarre image of Christ's death) because he was homosexual.
I'm not trying to make excuses for these people, but I believe there are other things going on with them. There are more Christians who feel bound by God's laws who don't take action than there are that do. The people who take action have something else going on inside their heads, a brutality and/or anger that need/s a cause and an outlet. There will be few, or no, jewels in the crowns of those who choose to hurt God's children, imo.
Without going into detail, I'll share that (via family) I'm no stranger to either of the controversial issues you mentioned. I've had to do a lot of rethinking to make those family connections work. It's often hard to reconcile beliefs with love. It's hard work - mentally and emotionally. With an earnest desire, tho, it can be done.
Incidents like those you mentioned seem to overshadow the good other loving people do. This is sad to me. But it's a fact, there are unbalanced people in every slice of humanity.
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#109252 - 03/21/07 06:12 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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Quote:
I answer, "only I can allow something to affect me."
(gimster)
yea I 100% belive this as it puts responcibilitie for my feelings with myself....
i do also belive that rapists and religouse based murderes have something more wrong than the average person on the street. I don't let thees extreem examples overshadow the good from other loving and just people christion or otherwise, but it can easily lead to despaire..untill the other side of the coin is remembered...But both are important in current day life unfortunitly
Rape being a crime of power not sex in theas spacific instancies the perpertrater use's lesbians and and attitude of "all thats lacking for them to change their ways is a good seeing too"...hence rape..Reasons given, you deserve it....and sure we all know that your diffrent
Is this view upheld becouse of the wider societies reactions....yes. Inderectly or directlie dose the bible (and litrial interpritasion )back up this thinking towards homosexuales...yes.....if thats ones hart felt belife on the subject fair and good, but dose it need to pop up at every turn, the same passage over and over again....the same repeating message.
Thes criminals are backed by others (even indirectly) hate and prediduce in societie and the overzeliouse conviction that they are right in doing what they are doing...misguided as they are they genuinlie think they have a right to and are doing the world a favour. treating homosexules as they do especillie murder...
on a slightly diffrent tone but still clearly related..
Rember what brought this up in the first place....ANNOS dad telling her about a new minister getting to the kids in the hope of tranning them out of homosexualitie beccouse they/we are born that way. HL example of genetic experimentasion to root out the homosexule gene...
thes are sane rational(ministers and scientists) people and not the sick or depraved...YET say/view homosexualitie as being so wrong they have the right to do the above (examples) Now that is directly spurned on by the lirial interpritasion of the bible or the general religouse attitude, as he is a Minisster...
we have some moral responibilitie for the informasion we desplay/promote in the world.....regardless of its origins and to answere questions to one-selvs simplie "am i adding or taking away from the hate, fear and prejidice in this world today"???regardless of who its directed at, or in whatever part of the world...Am i adding to the loving word of god
no one need promote homosexualitie in stoping descriminasion in this way......since its the protection and absences of hate and violences that is the focus , not in the promotion of any one lifestyle, homosexual or otherwise
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109253 - 03/21/07 11:12 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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Genisis.9:25,
23.Then Shem and Japheth took a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and walked backward and covered the nakedness of their father. Their faces were turned backward, and they did not see their father's nakedness.24When Noah awoke from his wine and knew what his youngest son had done to him,25 So he said, "May Canaan be cursed! He will be a servant of servants to his brothers."
"May Canaan be cursed! He will be a servant of servants to his brothers." and his desendents..
...so whomever the earlie imperilist, capitilst etc. wanted to enslave ...they deemed them desendents of Canaan...In the name of the bible hence god
As you can see litrial interpritasion (or any twist on THEE WORD) has and still can creat a whole load of trouble or be manipulated for any use if one so desirees. In relasion to slaverie it was for capital gain, the use of people for or as property
Took a while for me to re-find this passage. According to historiens and world experts into slaverie, the above vers was the one used to justifie slaverie from the 15 centurie onwards. Untill bible became mixed with biologie in societie and that became the new justificasion for slaverie, thes two combined forces weer unstopible in terms of attitud and one seperet set of people dominating a diffrent set of people. Slaverie created or gave birth to racisum
We may not have slavierie today but its legacie remains in racist attitudes and behaviour held within our culture today, the handing down of attitudes and belifes for generasions untill the present day...ex slave colonie that rebeled or won their freedom weer left to financial ruin, and stil are financialie bankrupt, ie taheiti
Its so difficult to get to thee truth of anything.....but yet so verie important...
I hope i have made a point and its not in discrediting the bible but in the coutione and care that is needed when interpriting the written word, litrialie or otherwise....
Theese are the words that reprisent GOD to us on earth...with christs life as an example,(rember christ was the light of the world)an example of gods love, compasion, forgivness and justness in trying to create a brotherhood amounst people that was fair noble honerable and had common sences decent values based in love and fairness with that in mind, how should biblical word be interprited?? Should it not be in the same manner as the living christs example?
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109254 - 03/21/07 11:24 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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GIMSTER AND CASY
i don't have the knowlage or skill that you two ladies have but i am enjoying the readings of your posts and i am learning stuff i didn't know...i am also having a time of it thinking and considerring about what was said, but this is a good thing overall thanks ladies.
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109255 - 03/21/07 11:27 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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I don't think is a promoter or perpetrator of murder, hate and mayhem. There are just as many, probably more Christian's being martyred everyday for their faith in Christ and for taking a stand for him. One man in the Sudan was forced to watch as the lost without Christ split his only son's bowels open and he had to watch him slowly and painfully die. Another and more recent incident was of a minister whose wife and son were forced to watch as a steamroller started at his feet and rolled over his entire body for his faith in Christ. These horrendous acts were just a few of many that happen everyday.
Its not just a select few in this world who are tortured and tormented. The perpetrator is Satan and his cohorts. God has nothing to do with the sin in the world. That's why He sent Jesus.
Hitler killed just as many believer's in Christ as he did Jews and homo's or any other dissidents. THe
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Aarikja Ann
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#109256 - 03/21/07 11:34 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Ministers, priests, pastors, rabbis, etc. aren't immune from being depraved, sick, insane, lustful, {sinners}, etc. They can and do say and do things out of their humanness. And, they are accountable for their preaching and their actions.
About certain subjects popping up at every turn... I don't see that to be happening. Maybe it's like seeing a million and one white cars on the road after you buy one. Or like my sister, after she got her divorce and remarried, everywhere she turned, she was confronted by what the Bible says about second marriages. It was a big issue for her, at one time. (PTL, she is settled in her heart, now.) But, I wasn't taking note of what was being said and written about second marriages, because it wasn't pertinent to my own life. I listened to her concerns and tried to help her through it, but I wasn't looking for the subject to pop up like she was all the time.
I cannot answer for society as a whole. But, if you are settled in your heart as to what is OK, what does it matter what others think? Again, refer to Hannelore's quote. But, never stop listening, because you'll be taking a risk. Your heart will harden. Resentment will flourish. Hatred can seed and grow... and the end result is no better than someone raping for power.
I feel we have failed you in some way. That's probably as much my fault as anyone else's. You are precious in His sight. You are His daughter, loved in a divine way. Would you be offended if I suggested you find a good Christian pastor to speak with... printing out this discussion and reviewing it with him/her. It's just a suggestion... not saying you need it or that I'm wanting you to convert to any particular way of believing. I just don't want you to think all Christians are bad. I know they are not.
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#109257 - 03/21/07 11:48 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Many managers of forums might have - or, should I say, probably would have (myself, included, were I a moderator) - closed this thread many posts ago. Did the Holy Spirit keep it open for some reason? Maybe so someone, whether lurking or posting, could gain a stronger sense of themselves?
Blessings to you all.
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#109258 - 03/22/07 12:19 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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yea that white car things a great example, and we are all sensitised to certine or diffrent things so those things prick us or catch our attension becouse they are relivent to us or our frends...the homosexule or litrale interpritasion has been printed out 4 times in the last mounth or two mounths...
I wouldn't want the thread to be closed as it (residue or bad feeling) just pops up in other places...so it has to diea down of its own accord with everyone having their say...think thats best....better is when feathers don't get ruffeled by mutule respect.
i don't think all christians are bad or wrong or hatfull, or that the religion is wrong...i have manie frends and one who vistists weeklie, who are adamant rock solid christions. In the latter example we had one or two chats about belifes and lifestyles then we got on with the busness of being frends...
do you know i have found a dear frend on this forum we chat pm wise and (once for 2 hours on the phone) and i was so surprised how much i liked this woman, (but know i would) we both aware of our diffrences yet both get to talk about christ....being lent and talking and descussion the crucifixtion she nearlie/i nearlie lol had us in tears...We meet and bonded becouse we both sillie but serious when it counts...the inital conversasion was about "what do i do about my child going to christion school and would he be descriminated agenst"..both said our peace but with open harts and respect now we frends...i have great respect for her and love her dearlie, she reallie adds to my life....and another rock solid christion.
i know your not trying to convert anyone to anyway...i am gaining a sence of your self via the posts.
i am at peace with myself in relashion to this stuff but know my kind of people range in reaction to this from fear, shocked to anger to genuine pain and confusion. There manie suicides and addictions becouse their is no reconsiliasion of lifstyle with religion within the indivduel...
becouse i love god and have an active spiritualitie seeing someone, anyone turn their back on god is reallie painfull for me, especillie if their scared out their wits...Thats why i will always speek out agenst certine things...
I think i got a big social consionse and feel a social responcibilitie to protect and to speek for those that dont cant have a voice...its a strenth and also a failing of mine at times..
I am also aware of the people reading and not responding, or the lurkers lol and who know the effect this has on them....it has the potencial to hurt and heal them, i whish for the later, especillie in relashion to god and the fate of their soul.
thank you for the considerasion and inclusion.
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109259 - 03/22/07 12:38 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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God has nothing to do with the sin in the world. That's why He sent Jesus NL QUOTE...yes that is why he sent him, his example of how to live was and is insperasional, even today 2000 after his life.
no one should have to die for religouse belifes...not christion or anyone else..NO ONE it is never acceptable. You have nor never had an argument about that from me...i whish as much love and freedom for the christion as for anyone else and i don't know how to get you to understand that i meen that.
god is all about love, freedom, compasion, forgivness, brother/sisterhood and fair equile treatment for humankind...for everyone of us. I think thats how he/she wants us to live in this world behaving like that and being treated like that...not doing the oposite in his name, sadlie people do and they will answere for their actions when the time comes.
i couldn't read the rest of your post my comp cutting you off in what seems like mid sentances.....but i think i got the jist off your post...
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109260 - 03/22/07 01:23 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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There are evil people, period, in the world. There are also some very wonderful people. Everyone who knows me seems to like me a lot, especially children. I'm like the pied piper. All the neighborhood kids come to my house for Tampico and other drinks and I always have treats and goodies for them. I genuinely am interested in them. I relate more to children than I do to adults in part because of this very thing.
Everyone else on this forum can express their feelings and thoughts and get attaboys and ((hugs)), I get ridiculed and called names and treated like I'm some kind of villian. I don't know how many of you watched that movie around Christmas with Natalie Portman, Sarah Jessica Parker and Dianne Keaton where one of her sons was gay and brought his boyfriend home, and Sarah Jessica Parker came to meet the parents of her prospective husband? If you didn't see it, I totally related to the character portrayed by SJP. That's me. She was basically a wonderful person, but was villified by the supposed open minded liberal family she had come to meet.
I feel that this "family" or "club" or "sisterhood" has voted and I just received the black ball. You seem to think anyone who folds to your belief system is a wonderful person.
I have friends and acquaintences who are many, many flavors of humanity. My home has always been a haven for the homeless and I've on more than one occasion taken care of and fed, drug addicts off the street with no where to go. Not once did I consider one of these dear people as any less than myself.
You will never understand me. No amount of "clarification" or writing until I have writer's cramps, will ever help you to know me and that is your loss, because I AM all that and more.
Just like the poor hapless individuals peering into this mess, I'm leaving the forum to Celtic and Po and Casey (love you Casey!) and Gimster (sorry you think I'm a 'bad' Christian to be apologized for, Gim), hope you all work out your issues.
I hope to find a discussion group of truly accepting and open ladies who will love you no matter what your beliefs.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109261 - 03/22/07 01:45 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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OH, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO... newleaf, I do NOT think of you as a bad Christian... no way, no shape, no how! Somehow I have misworded my thoughts, if you read that into anything I said. I have the highest, I'm talking the very highest, respect for you, and without even meeting you, I've liked you from the get-go.
You created a post a few posts back that I wish I'd written, it was full of "good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over" (to borrow a biblical reference).
Dear one, you are as precious as any other member. I can only hope that you accept that fact.
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#109262 - 03/22/07 12:30 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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your leaving the forum to celtic and po....
stop singling us out...in anyway, shap or form plz
stop trying to blam this or your feelings on us stop pointing the fingure, po hasent even been in this thread. The last time you personaly attack her, ranted for pages and told her how she turned your guts and how revolting she was as a lesbian and classed her along with mass murderers etc publicalie and privatly ....She learned just to stay well clear of you for her own protection....as did some other women involved that you stuck "other" labels too. No one comes in her for tension or fighting its ment to be and is a fun activitie and an oppertunity to conect and support, why would people risk being attacked or read nastiness...why take time from your familie for that.
Thers been no voting from no sisterhood, You clamed the same stuff the last time from a diffrent bunch of women. At no time did GIMSTER call or infrences you as a bad person or christion, shes pretie fair and frendlie to everyone, while still saying what she has to say. CASY one of the fairest and level haded women on this boared and has yet to write anything that is not upheld with the highest of respect for whomever she writting to. She is ALSO a frend of your families. Thes people are your frends WHY you cant see that is beyond me...
Funnie thing is no one has puplicly called you names, or villianised you or ridiculed you in any way....Thats the truth of the matter, how you interprite other people taking an opposing view to yours is your own bussiness. Or acnologing that sometimes some views are tough on some people and can lead to hurt or harm, in the world, is not a direct critisisum of you or your belifes
Everyone else on this forum can express their feelings and thoughts and get attaboys and ((hugs))NL QUOTE...thats true especillie when they help, nurture, uphold, love and respect another women on the forum....Thats how frendships are made and what the function of this place is ment to be about. No one goes out their way to be nastie or crule to you or to undermin what you have to say about anything...
i am sure your reading this and i am also sure you wont be going anyweer...
Stay on the forum or leave do as you will...
We all get hurt at times we all get sensitive at times and i am sure manie have thought about leaving becouse of tensions or have actilie left becouse of tensions and bikerring or certine views (i know this for a fact). Its unfaire on people, and also unfair to aske them to put up with it. Personalie, i trie as hard as i can not to get into fighting, bikerring or name calling thats to do with how i want to "be" in the world in relashion to all people yourself included, as it has a wide impact on everyone who is directly involved or indirectlie involved by just reading this stuff. Thats why their is forum rules and guides to how we treat each other, so that it is safe for All to be involved in. I hope i do that while still putting my side of a descussion or point across.
Have a think about things and re-read the last couple of pages without an angery head on...see if it makes a diffrence to how you feel.
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109263 - 03/22/07 02:24 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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I'd like to circle back to something if I may. And that is the responsibility of clergy and leaders in all walks of life. Yes, Gimster, I agree that the people who perform these acts of murder and barbarity are ill in some very nasty way. But I also know that based on studies, we all have a very nasty streak inside of us that can be brought out by group mentality and a "permission" to perform evil.
The study I'm thinking of had Americans administering "shocks" in ever increasing "doses," at the behest of their superiors. These were normal, everyday people and yet the power to inflict harm made them crazy and very hurtful.
We've seen it with our own dear sons and daughters in Iraq in the prisons.
I believe that leaders have a responsibility. There are many people who regard clergy as speaking the word of God -- as absolute authority. Indeed, many clergy foster that belief. So when they vilifile homosexuals, or say that they are evil, they are in effect, giving permission for very bad behavior.
When I say Paul trumps Jesus, it's just the passage that NL quoted a while back from Romans that I'm thinking of. Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself, but doesn't (to my recollection -- could be wrong!) ever vilifile homosexuals. Yet, it's Paul's passage that gets quoted all the time.
I think that having a spiritual basis is so very important, whatever its basis. I see too many of my clients without one who are very adrift.
Bless you, Gimster and Celtic for hanging in there and having a really fine discussion willing to look at things in a loving way. NL, we love you.
And we love all you "lurkers," too! LOL!
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109265 - 03/24/07 04:30 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Isn't it a shame some give them so much power. It's almost like putting others before God, which, as you know, is a NO-NO. We should campaign to make the next generations more aware of the dangers of being followers of another human.
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#109266 - 03/24/07 06:02 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Gimster, I think you are right on. We need to remind ourselves that following another human being without question is not a good idea. And, I think we need to talk a lot more about leadership and what it means (could be another topic).
This would also help protect our children from sexual misconduct by leaders. If we teach them that clergy are human beings with a calling to minister, as opposed to God's representatives on earth, will that make a difference? I think so.
Dotsie, I don't believe that anyone should be comparitively "judged," if that makes any sense. Each case has to be treated differently. What I do believe is that they should be immediately removed from positions of leadership. Unfortunately, that isn't always the case.
I wonder how we do this?
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109268 - 03/24/07 11:27 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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What is the role of a minister....to conduct sermones, to preach, to aid individuels in crisis...can they be held accountable to ensure their preaching is of a sutible nature...what current maechinisums are in place when a minister is off on his or her own wee power trip for what ever agenda they have up their sleave....is their any type of complants procidure for want of a better word or term? If a minister is not behaving as he/she should.....or if their preaching is hatefilled or biased or upsetting to manie of the congrigasion...
My church has a commitie of members so any complant would go throw them about her.....is this the same elsewear. I know it would have to be one verie wrongfull stance before anything would be done in terms of her sermons...Obviouslie sexule or physical misconduct is diffrent....but at the idea of thoughts it be difficule besides manie aint tranned enough or feel qualified enough to challenge an oppinion?....would this be the same all over?
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109269 - 03/25/07 09:57 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Ministers are called by God, in other words, they can't sleep at night or conduct their daily lives until they surrender to the "call" to preach or evangelize. They have a special mission therefore a special task force of the enemy is attached to those in the place of most authority.
Their task is to undermine, attack and challenge them at their most vulnerable point. That point may vary from man or woman to man or woman. Satan knows the weaknesses of those in authority over others.
It is a serious commitment to God as that I've seen with my own father, to God, to His Word, and to the people God places within his/her realm of contact.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109270 - 03/25/07 09:59 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Those who are the most vocal and seem the most loving and the most open and understanding and seem to connect at the most basic level that are to be the most feared.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109271 - 03/25/07 10:05 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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I want you all to know that my most beloved grandaughter, Aaliyah almost drowned Friday in the pool of her mother's apartment complex. Just like that the life of a most precious 4 yr. old could have ended without much fanfare or ado.
Her mother turned around just in time to see her grasping for help. There are powerful entities at work to steal, to kill and to destroy all that is precious in your life. They are the enemy of God. If you are bold enough to take a stand for God, then you need to be bold enough and humble enough to get on your knees and ask God to place a protective hedge around those that you love. The enemy of your soul hates you and hates those that you love.
Thank God, Aaliyah is alive and can tell the story of how she almost "drank too much water and went to be with Jesus",,,ladies, please pray for the safety of me and my family.
I'm taking a break from this discussion as it has proved to be more than I can handle alone. Thank all of you for your professions of faith on another forum subject.
I love you all very much. Rhonda
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Aarikja Ann
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#109273 - 03/25/07 10:09 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Edelweiss]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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Her mother turned around just in time to see her grasping for help.NEWLEAFS QUOTE..
well their still some angel watching over you and yours, just waiting to jump in at the best moment to help in ways they can....thank god she ok..
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109275 - 03/25/07 10:23 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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There been one bit of reallie good news heer at the weekend.
In westminster London their was a high profile march today lead by the archbishops celibrating 200 years sinces abolusion of slaverie, its a church lead thing appoligising for the churches part in past slaverie.
This type of act of god dose a lot to heal people and today we can rest assured in some sence of saftie that if they relize and admitting their wrondongs from the past then they not gonna recreat the same thing today.
In fact the church is leading a big campain into modern day "types" of slaverie maybee not agenst big organisasions but agenst indivduel gangs abducting and holding young girls and women for slaverie into prostictusion and other sex activites. Even raising awarness of such things in some ways can help change.
Now this is the type of good news thats good to heer that the church has or is spearheading...Now thats a reason to celibrate, on behalf of the girls enslaved and the purpise or drive of the church using its power for positive change..
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"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109277 - 03/25/07 10:49 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I joined a Church last year and attended Bible study and a divorce care course. I thought that all that was said would remain private, instead I discovered that these women would gossip about me, I being the only one w/out children, yet not the only having experienced domestic violence. I was so very offended and hurt and have not been back since October '06. I believe there are 'Christians' that hide behind the Bible and hurt others intentionally just so long as their 'click' allows such behavior. The last time I attended, the women simply walked away from me. Yet, to this day, I know they continue to live in their pasts by repeating their behaviors and partying late on the weekends. I really like that Church, and have thought about going back to service for myself and keep my head high, afterall I'm there for God.
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#109279 - 03/26/07 05:54 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Mustang, I can completely relate to what you are saying. I stayed away from church for a long time, years maybe, because of the clic thing. Some people are afraid of what is different whereas God looks on the heart of an individual, not on the outward appearance.
Still today, being the individual that I am, I go to church now not to see how people are going to react to me as I've learned their reaction won't be favorable, but I go to church now purely to show respect to a God that I love with all my heart, to worship him AND to learn. I've found a church that I really love to attend.
It's an Assembly of God. The pastor and his wife are unassuming and very wise...my pastor gets alone with God and asks Him what message He wants the congregation to hear each week. I like that.
I've resigned myself to the fact that people are fallible. Only God is infallable and only God sees and knows your heart and your every thought and desires an intimate relationship with us.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109280 - 03/26/07 05:59 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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One thing that brings me such comfort is that God knows my every thought. He already knows about the Chocolate cream pie and the 4 glasses of wine, the hurt and pain from just learning that my husband is cheating again and the sadness and fear of being alone should we decide to get a divorce.
I can talk to Him just like the dearest loving father or brother and He cares so much. Its that knowledge that keeps me going and trying each day to be a better person.
Today's message was the 91st Psalm. He who dwells in the safety of the most high. Our pastor preached this sermon, he said, after 9/11. I love my pastor and his wife, only because I'm learning to trust that he hears and is open to the leading of the Holy Spirit and that neither he or his wife are CEO's but the greatest servants of all. Our pastor holds 4 services each and every Sunday morning. Bless his heart!
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Aarikja Ann
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#109282 - 03/26/07 03:28 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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Rhonda, Sorry to hear about your GDs near miss -- but really glad she is alive and well! And sorry to hear that your husband is cheating again.
Mustang, I feel so bad that those women gossiped, but even more so that you suffered from domestic violence. They are both about breaking trust and that is so sad.
It's so important that we have a circle that we can trust. I find some of it in my Education for Ministry group, but not totally. I am totally comfortable with my writing group. I can say anything I want, knowing it will go no where. I can be grouchy or happy or silly. It's soooo wonderful.
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Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109283 - 03/27/07 07:42 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Thanks, Casey. Tonight I made a conscious decision to just ignore him. I'm going to put an invisible thick hedge around myself and just begin to live my own life without divorcing him.
I'm a loyal person and its hard to turn my back on him, but he has turned his back on me so many times I can't count and now this latest thing...it really hurts.
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Aarikja Ann
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#109284 - 03/27/07 09:35 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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CASEY glade to hear you got a group that you can totalie trust and they accept you in whatever mood or way your in.....that is so important acceptances...i got place for that too and i know how luckie i am i a big fan of peer support whear ever you get it or from whatever group....
NL sorrie to hear you H at his nonsences again, loyaltie dos not deserve that type of trust braking treatment as loyaltie is so varie preciouse as a virtue or personalitie trate....
I bet it dose hurt, that behaviour would hurt anyone....i can still understand the difficultie in turning your back on H especillie being a water sighn and having the type of personalitie that you have just described.....I know we have had our diffrences in the past about certine topics but i still hate to think of you going through all this and its been constant for you
I know you will find your way in it all and find the best thing for you to do about it. I hope for the best plan of acton or road for you out of your present hurt...
DOTSIE delighten you found your circle of trust within a prayer group. That grants one faith in people and a good experinces of religion and those within...it be a delight praying with others in that atmospher of trust and love.
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109285 - 03/28/07 06:16 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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Daddy sent me this in an email tonight - making it fit here...lol:
A lady went to a beauty shop to have her hair cut and her nails painted and trimmed.
As the lady began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the beautician said : "I don't believe that God exists."
"Why do you say that?" asked Sheryl who has MS.
"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.
I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things."
Then Sheryl thought for a moment, but didn't respond because she didn't want to start an argument.
The beautician just finished her job and the customer left the shop.
Just after she left the beauty shop, she saw a woman in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and not groomed at all. She looked dirty and unkempt. Then Sheryl turned back and entered the beauty shop again and she said to the beautician: "You know what? Beauticians do not
exist."
"How can you say that?" asked the surprised beautician. "I am here, and I am a beautician. And I just worked on you!"
"No!" Sheryl exclaimed.
"Beauticians don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and be very unkempt, like that woman outside."
"Ah, but beauticians DO exist! What happens is, people do not come to me."
"Exactly!"- affirmed Sheryl.
"That 's the point!
God, too, DOES exist!
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#109286 - 03/28/07 07:12 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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The Divine Ms M
Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 4894
Loc: Orange County, California
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Rules of discussion:
No ugly debating about who is right and who is wrong.
This is meant to be a discussion for discovery and affirmation.
No proselytizing or preaching.
Newleaf, thank you for ignoring the guidelines at every opportunity. You have been proselytizing, proselytizing, proselytizing and proselytizing. I feel like I've been bashed over the head repeatedly with with a large iron club. Everyone in here has bent over backwards to be respectful towards your belief system, and you keep proselytizing. Because you think you are "right," and therefore that gives you the right to ignore guidelines. "Right" as determined by your version of your religion, which condemns everyone and every belief system which is not yours.
You wax ecstatic about the blood of your version of God, but seem unconcerned about the blood gushing from my skull caused by the repeated smashing of your iron club, aka, proselytization.
I guess my blood doesn't count, because I don't have the "right" religious indoctrination.
Which is why we had the Crusades.
And the Inquisition.
And the Salem "witch" trials.
And the Holocaust.
And gays being murdered, today.
But of course, you wouldn't do anything like that. You wish to preserve my body so you can bludgeon my soul.
Which is exactly what it feels like from here.
And for the record -- I felt that everyone else understood that the guidelines were for all of us.
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#109289 - 03/28/07 08:26 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
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member
Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 1521
Loc: Alabama
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Gimster,
Love the beautician story...
_________________________
Jane Carroll
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#109290 - 03/28/07 08:37 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Jane_Carroll]
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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oh i am a bit surprised but thanks for re-opening this dotsie...i appriaciate it and heers hoping it remains calm and godlie/godessie...thanks for giving us all the chances dotsie...
_________________________
"Our attitude either gets in the way or creates a way," Sam Glenn
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#109291 - 03/29/07 03:55 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: meredithbead]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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GEEZE Meredithbead, when you come back, you come back with a bang I'm sincerely sorry my words and my assurance offended you. (Hope your head feels better soon.) I can't and won't bend this way and that to make anyone feel better about themselves. I put it out there and if the shoe fits, wear it. If not then just let it go. As you can see, I'm not offended by your words. I appreciate it when people are frank and honest about their feelings. Chatty is a prime example of that. She puts it out there just the way she sees it. So does Celtic and even though we don't always agree, like two generals on the battlefield on different sides, at least I respect her for being a worthy opponent. I've been duly and lovingly chastized but thank you for your kind reminder. I'll do my best to add my voice without offending anyone but sometimes the truth hurts. I can't help it. I didn't invent it. I just present it. Gimster, I loved the beautician story! It was great. That's the way Christ taught also, in analogies and by asking questions. Did you ever think about that? The Pharasees and spiritual leaders were always trying to trip him up or appeal to his ego, but he didn't have an ego because he was sinless, so he just replied with questions to their wordy traps. Thinking seems to be a lost art these days. People are more into feeling than thinking it seems, me included. I know my feelings have been running high these days. Oh well, at least that way I know I'm alive I've never seen a topic stir so many emotions. Honestly, I never have not even politics. Its good to know from my safe and sound location within my belief system what others believe. It makes it much easier with that knowledge to know where to meet them and help them understand the truth so they can have a better life. That's all. No proselytizing or bludgeoning. I look at myself as that person who takes the keys away from the drunk driver before they get behind the wheel and endanger their lives or the lives of others. The person getting in the veh to drive home may object and fight vehemently with you and insist they aren't drunk afterall, just feeling good or a bit tipsy.  Christ himself while on the cross said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." Speaking of those who had set the snare for him and finally he "allowed" them to capture him so that he could pay the ultimate price for our salvation and eternal life with the Father. I would rather sit under the tutelige of a pastor who gets alone with God and sincerely from his/her heart hears from God what his/her congregation needs to hear for their healing, happiness, peace and well being. I've never had a lot of respect for the three topic and sermonettes retrieved from a book of sermons. I could go to the public library and check one of them out myself. Anyway, I'm glad this thread is still open. It's interesting although volitile 
_________________________
Aarikja Ann
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#109292 - 03/29/07 04:20 AM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 3404
Loc: USA
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I'll tell Daddy how much the story was enjoyed and tell him thanks. That will lift his spirits, knowing he's shared something of value. NL, at posting, I didn't relate it to Jesus' parables, but thanks for pointing that out. It's true. Here's a little saying from Aunt Oma, "Never find fault with what's been said or done, unless you're the one who said or done it." We need to apply this to our lives, right? Blessings to all who have participated in this discussion.
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#109293 - 03/29/07 02:36 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: gims]
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Member
Registered: 08/25/05
Posts: 1052
Loc: Ohio
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Mustang, I am so sorry you had such an experience in your divorce recovery group. A friend of mine used to lead such a group and confidentiality is a must!
I have been away from the church due to bad experiences with church people. I know in my head that there is sin in the church and that I should be as cautous there as anywhere else. But my heart hurt for a long time. The church attracts the walking wounded and sinners, not only people who are perfect.
I had been looking for a small group for a couple of years and just recently found one. I ran into an old friend at church and I joined his cell group. That group split because it was getting too large and now we only have 4, which is perfect for now.
I hope you won't give up on finding a group. I didn't, and even though it took a long time, it has filled a gap in my life.
_________________________
Laura
laurapoplin.com
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#109294 - 03/29/07 03:14 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Daisygirl]
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Member
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 789
Loc: Aptos, California
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I'm glad the thread is open again, although I understand that it raises a great many emotions. One of the ways that I find useful is to believe, even though the author might not say it, that what they are saying is from their perspective and belief. I can take what I like and leave the rest, which I think is what NL means when she says, "I put it out there and if the shoe fits, wear it. If not then just let it go."
Since her belief system and mine are very different, I love her and let it go. It works. :-))
_________________________
Casey Dawes Wise Woman Shining Supporting women business owners to step into their power as business leaders.
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#109295 - 03/29/07 04:47 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: Casey]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Thank you Casey. I appreciate that. I'm going to be looking for a divorce recovery group at my church real soon. Even though I know splitting up is the best thing to do, its still like recovering from major surgery for me.
When I married my husband, it was before God, and with my whole heart. I took my vows seriously. I became one with my husband and now that one unit is being torn apart by him and, I guess, by me also as I have no choice.
The deep nearly mortal wounds will take time and intensive care to heal. As many of you may remember some of my post regarding our sex life have been very favorable. I'll miss that also. I feel like a failure in that department now too.
_________________________
Aarikja Ann
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#109296 - 03/29/07 05:53 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Founder
Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 23647
Loc: Maryland
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Quote:
I've been duly and lovingly chastized but thank you for your kind reminder. I'll do my best to add my voice without offending anyone but sometimes the truth hurts. I can't help it. I didn't invent it. I just present it.
NL, your comment about THE TRUTH hurting, is in my mind, another example of believing your truth is the only truth. This is not what this discussion is about. We are not proving who is right and who is wrong. While some of your beliefs happen to be in line with my own, I still believe the judgment belongs to God.
Edited by Dotsie (03/29/07 06:42 PM)
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#109297 - 03/29/07 06:47 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
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Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 2930
Loc: Belfast/Northern Ireland
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thanks for keeping this descusion and this forum safe for us all dotsie regardless of religon denominasion, no religion, alternative religion, lifestyle etc etc etc...i sincerlie appriate your efforts. TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE IF I MAY i belive with all my hart certine things, my mind belives it and i have witnessed it so for me its totalie true ....but i accept that it wont be this way for all others or even most others. So i can hold in balances, MY total belife being totalie true for ME...while for another THEIR belife is totalie true for THEM. There is no fault with or from either of us but the fault occures when i excalme that my belife has to "BE SO"... for everyone elses. For example, "If you don't belive as i do then your wrong for doing so". More than just i think your wrong but you are ultimitlie wrong . its a sutile wee diffrences but an important one on the forum but also in life generallie. As most things are its just a balancing act lanague wise, and respect wise.....and one can also respect anothers belifes for what they are (trulie respect them) without them dilouting first persons belifes, (NL belifes need not change or lessen in strenth). Its a freedom thing, a non-judmental thing and an act of genuine respect... NL may belive with her whole hart that her way is the ultimate truth, and for that their is nuthing verie wrong, but onlie when they are imposed or forced on another dose it become a wrong thing to do, due to, lack of respect and not that the belife is wrong... NL with her deep held belife has an oppetunitie to learn this (as people with deep belifes often need to do)and it may take a bit of practices but it is achivable....as it is only a change in attitude not in her belifes....thanks for giving NEWLEAF the chances to do this. As in life most things take practices...As one practices then correction is necassary, at times, to ensure the right path and the right way for the future. Thats the process , do, correction, readjustment,do again, evaluasion and so on. You know this is such an important life skill your doing NL a great favour and NL you setting an example for manie woman to follow who has similare habits. Those that may have grasped it, again get to evaluate their own behaviour so we all evolve and advances as one.... cheers dotsie and "respect" to the two of you for engaging in this.... (hope that aint to fluffie or overbearing as i still grogie from the opp) you know what ladies , its all good heer thanks again. love and hugs to you all...
Edited by celtic_flame (03/29/07 07:22 PM)
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#109298 - 03/29/07 09:59 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: celtic_flame]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Dotsie and Celtic, while I totally understand what you are saying, there is no doubt in my mind. I have to ask you, "Is the sun the sun or just my idea of the sun?" "Is that chair you are sitting in real or is it imagined?" "Is the little one standing before you alive, can you touch him or her, do they speak and can you feel their breath if you hold your finger under their nose?"
Ok, I'll not call the sun anything but the sun and my grandchildren anything but living until they no longer live, and my chair IS a chair, no matter what your perception of it is.
_________________________
Aarikja Ann
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#109299 - 03/29/07 10:02 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 12/26/05
Posts: 1066
Loc: Deland, Florida
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Its called reality and it doesn't matter who takes the sun and turns it into a Picasso or a divan or a paring knife, its still the sun. I can see it, feel its warmth on my skin, it tans me, it causes my plants to produce via photosynthesis, etc.
You can call it what you want, but the truth is what it is. I'm just presenting it to you. You don't have to believe it and in Casey's case (no pun intended, Casey) she chooses to ignore it, so I'm OK with that.
You won't find me complaining about someone else being wrong. That's what freewill is all about.
_________________________
Aarikja Ann
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#109300 - 03/29/07 10:14 PM
Re: Fully aware of where they come from...
[Re: NewLeaf]
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Member
Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 4434
Loc: Minneapolis Minnesota
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My gosh, you really DON'T get it, do you NL?
You don't see that everyone sees everything differently? Even the sun, my dear, is seen differently by every person in the world. Even the person standing right next to me has different thoughts, a different view, different feelings and memories of the sun.
You see your world through your eyes, your heart and your past. You could not possibly perceive the world in the only ONE right way to see the world. This goes for God, too.
I am happy for you, that you believe what you believe. I completely understand that you beieve there is one way, and only one way, FOR YOU!!! Great.
But.......
Oh, why bother?
You will never be able to understand.
You baffle me. With all the stubborness that I see from you in this thread (and many others) I can not understand why you do not use this personality trait for the good and take care of yourself and your homelife. It seems to me, if you coralled this stubborness into being good to yourself, your life would be soooooo much better.
One day, I hope that you will wake up to God telling you to stop being a bully and pushing your perception of his love. The God I know would be surely disappointed in you right now.
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