I'm actually not sure where to put this question but just got into an argument with someone elsewhere on the internet. His contention was he didn't care where Obama was really born but that he had not grown up in the US and didn't understand American values.

I have no idea how living somewhere for 4 years means that you are from that place. What about all the other years? How long does it take for people to be 'from' somewhere?

I have a real personal take on this because I grew up as an Army brat and spent most of my first 10 years outside the US. Well, so what? That's what brats do. I never tell people I'm from Europe because I'm not. Partly, yes. Completely, not even close.(I was hardly all grown up when I was 10). I have never been able to answer the "Where are you from?' question easily. I consider that I am from a number of places. Have people actually considered me to some foreigner -- even that sounds stupid to me -- all these years and just didn't say it?

The reason this gets me is that I think this Indonesia bit is a sneaky way of trying to take away someone's citizenship. (It may also be a dog-whistle way of using the n-word.) I don't care about their politics or whether I agree or disagree, I just think it's really dirty pool to 'undo' people by taking one aspect of their lives and assigning it to everything. Similarly, I don't care for people dismissing Romney just because he's a Mormon and talking like he's some alien. Anyway, I'd be interested in people's thoughts.

I'm with you, Ellemm.

I think there are people in the world whose minds can't be changed no matter what facts you present. This new attempt to prove Obama isn't a citizen is another way of trying to get him out of office since the birth certificate mess didn't work.

So sad Ellen that some people are still hyperfocused to make up reasons to discredit someone based on their place of birth.

I don't think that's really it, Orchid. I think the comments about 'he doesn't really understand American values' and 'from Indonesia' and the like are sneaky ways of either calling him the n-word or trying to drum home the idea that he's not 'one of us.'

It's kind of depressing, but there really are certain Americans who think that if you are not from small-town Protestant America you don't understand the 'real' America. Well, that's certainly part of it, but so are people from Detroit or a Wyoming ranch or the Texas gulf coast or Maine fishermen. It's a freaking big country; I have no idea how we're supposed to settle on just one type of experience to be real, so to speak.

One of Romney's stalking horses just make some comment about Obama not 'getting our Anglo-Saxon values,' -- this despite the fact that Obama probably has more Anglo-Saxon blood than I do.

Mitt Romney's father was not born in the US. George Romney was born in Mexico because his own parents left the US to escape polygamy laws. Donald Trump's mother came from Scotland; remember all his yapping about birth certificates? But, see, those guys are white, so it's different. (You know, Scottish people are not Anglo-Saxons either; they're Celts and have done more than their fair share of fighting the English.) I'm fine with criticizing any candidate's policies; I'm not fine with sneaky and not-so-sneaky comments about citizenship.

You know, a lot of people consider Mormons to be cultists and not real Americans. Well, I'm glad that people seem to be dropping regarding Romney this because our Constitution explicitly forbids religious tests for office -- something a lot of people conveniently forget. I just think we should apply the same standards to everyone.

Ellen: Honest, I sometimes actually tell people that I was raiseed in German-Mennonite based city and born in a smaller city outside of the Toronto: just to remind people my whole life (lst 23 yrs.) was experiencing such a cultural environment. (However I was raised in small cities with local universities and a college per city...which makes a HUGE difference and can influence (positively on locals.)

I currently live in an Albertan city of over 1 million people and in Alberta where we are considered more "redneck" and conservative than rest of Canada. HOwever we have a mayor who is:

East Indian descent (or was it Kenya?), born in England I think. He immigrated to Canada under age 10.

university educated (a Canadian university & then later did his 2nd degree at....Harvard University, ooooooh a foreig university).

and he is Muslim. He doesn't make a deal of it. But doesn't hide the fact.

His election into office, floored the rest of Canada and did make some world news.

But in Canada, the people don't care about a candidate's religion. It's not on their election campaigns. God is not evoked in their speeches nor in their dealings with people.

he does often talk about growing up in Calgary, Alberta in a warm and graceful way. Yes, it's very smart of him to say so...for the reasons that you have pointed out. He is part of "us", Canadian.