Hello Friends, sadly, I have to talk about what is going on in my marriage. I've known my husband W since 1984. We had turned 30, and we both had been married before, with no kids. We married in 1988. Over the years, I have caught W in many, many lies. I've searched the internet for definitions and characteristics of pathological and compulsive liars. He has moved from compulsive (a habit) to pathological (without empathy.) He no longer cares that he is lying! This week, I caught him in 3 lies. One is that he bought expensive equipment to enhance his home media entertainment. This is at a time when I cashed in my IRA to afford to enter the real estate biz. Anyway, he bought the equipment, and lied about how the charge appeared on our statement. He said that "The company made a mistake by charging him, and we would get a credit soon." Then, he said that when the product comes to the door he would refuse the product. Instead, he accepted the product, then hid it from me. We had such a fight that I made him send it back. That cost us a $29.00 re-stock fee, plus return shipping, plus the time to take it to the Post Office, plus the tension. Now he is telling me to get over it. He 1) believes his own lies 2) blames me for not letting it go 3) can't remember the lies. I told him it's either immediate therapy or divorce. This week we will go to counseling, which of course I had to set up. I am the one studying the behavior of lying on the internet, when he is the culprit. He says he never considered himself an abuser. But we both see how lying is emotionally abusive, and financially ruining us. He is a non-stop consumer. Any advice or experience on this subject would be much appreciated. Oh, on my birthday I told him I did not want anything from him because I know he would create some kind of lie surrounding the gift. So I accepted gifts from friends all day long and left him out of my birthday. I don't want a gift in a box for one day; I want honesty and integrity at all times during the years. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks for listening. Signed, hurting in CO

PL, yes, lying is cheating. What is the reason for his lying? Is it financial? Perhaps emotional? Perhaps he feels somewhat emasculated because you spent money on a license in real estate? Men are funny when it comes to money.

Dennis emotionally supported me through my decision to become a life coach and finacially sort of supported me. But he still wants to know when I will pay the money back, even though I make more money than he does.

So, he resorts to buying things we do not need, at least in my mind we do not need.

There maybe more "man" issues to the money than simple lying, is all I am saying. And, as far as therapy - this is usually a one-way street. Someone has to suggest it, someone has to push it. This does not necessarily mean that he is against the idea.

A big change has just interrupted his life (your new journey) and outside help and inside patience maybe just what is needed.

By the way, your not letting him be part of your birthday is a bit controlling, don't you think? Then, again, I really don't know the whole story, do I?

Best of luck with this. Sorry you are hurting.

He says he never considered himself an abuser. But we both see how lying is emotionally abusive, and financially ruining us. PL QUOTE.

if he sees the hurt he's cousing you and by that sttment he dose, then their is some hope he come to his sences.......is he addicted to shopping? many are and its not just a womans thing..or just being selfish?
Bearing that in mind...i wouldn't do the research to understand him, instead i would try to get him to do his own research to heal himself. I think smart folk can sometimes fall into the trapp of needing to understand too much, "if i understood it it will then be ok"....instead of looking at the emotional damage it dose to oneself.

I am sure your huring bad lynn, i never like finding out my partner told me a lie, it send my head spinning into a place of resentment...and wonderring what they are coverring up.With them its generallie small lies that arn't even classed as lies just sillie stuff and yet i still feel the pain of batrayal and mistrust or trust being broken...I also know its the same in rever if i tell them a wee lie. Their nature has their head telling them well if she lieing about the wee stuff what big stuff is she reallie doing that i don't know about...(their is nuthing but to their head in that moment its real)

Lynn i belive as you know that most stuff can be healed enough to bring 2 people back together...."i not goina do the hes lieing leave him thing" Thats too simple a solusion and some problems are worth working their way through...if you care for him enough....i would find difficultie in his "get over it attitude" after one lie spirales into another and another trying to cover up the first one....The get over it thing a way for him to escape and not face his responcibilitie which is he HAS HURT YOU...thats what he has to relise with his actions, their cousing you deep seated pain...To add insult to injurie most women do have to set up relashionship counsilling even if they are the injured partie. I hope it goes well for you both in this or theas sessions....More importantlie after you hurt for however long it takes i hopw you learn to build trust in him again, becouse thats what you have reallie been robbed off, trust...Be honest with yourself be honest with him within the counselling, sometimes just another person saying "yep that behaviours unexaptable as it dose couse harm" helps bring some realining in the relashionship....i also whish he learn to make amends to you becouse their nuthing worse than being hurt then told oh get over it...
all things good can come from thies counselling sessions their a whoole load of new behaviours to be descovered and changed due to them...

i think your brave posting on this subject, its a good one to get others ideas and experinces about so i be cheeking in to see what the others say and how you are doing via your updates...good luck lynn and i hope their brighter days ahead for you soon.

anno we doing it again onlie you get to type faster and post first....
anyway the boards free i gonna go to bed so whishing you all a good night

and lynn i say a wee prayer that your helped with your pain...and find the right way forward...

night all.

Celtic, thanks for the input. Yes, I hope counseling will replace the bad habit of lying with another set of behaviors. Anno, of course I wanted to control my birthday! I can't believe a word that comes out of his mouth. If he can't participate, then he can't lie. Also, it is not about my new journey. He has been lying since the beginning of our relationship. The difference is that I have recognized his lies as a way for him to control what I think of him. Here's an example: on one of his days off, I asked him to check the furnace filter to see if it needed changing. He said he checked it and it was not dirty enough to change. A week later on another day off he was telling me all that he'd done while I was working: he'd gone to the car wash, went to get his car oiled and lubricated, plus he made dinner. While I was praising him for all that he did on his day off, he inserted, "Oh, and I changed the furnace filter." I said, "oh really? I didn't see a dirty one in the trash" which is quite visible in our garage. He said, "What you don't believe me?" No, I don't, I said. He had not changed the furnace filter. He did not remember that he said the week before it did not need changing. Now, who lies about a stupid furnace filter, and who lies at the same time he is being praised? This is not about the money, because he has lied on plenty of occasions not about money. He is also a "functioning alcoholic." One of the times he was trying to quit (it only lasts a week or so) he told me he was not drinking anything. Then, I went to clean his car for him while I was cleaning mine, and I discovered beers in a cooler in his car. Who hides beers in a car? I feel cheated of truth and deceived by him. He does not feel emasculated because I spent MY retirement funds to fund the first 6 months in RE. He would be only too happy for me to bring home money so he can buy gadgets. I think that he wants out of the marriage and is lying excessively so that I will get fed up and leave. That way he can say "She left me." rather than owning his responsiblity. I'm sick of it.

Sorry Princess, I did not know the history. Yes, this is abuse. I, too, hate lying. It is intolerable. I did not mean to sound as if I was blaming you.

What do you want? Do you want out? Do you want to change your relationship? Do you want to save your relationship?

Only you can answer these questions. Maybe, if you are completely honest with yourself about what you want, you will find the answers. Not being flippant here - times like these I hate being on-line, it is too impersonal. But I do believe at least part of the answer lies in what do you really want.

Again, I am sorry for what you are going through. I hope you find what you are looking for in life. I believe that you are a strong woman, with much to offer yourself and others. I believe you will find the right answer for you.

Men are often times (maybe more times than that) just kids in big bodies. Kids lie, hide things, and believe they aren't doing anything wrong. He sounds like he's one that hasn't found the value in telling the truth. It all probably stems from his childhood (parents, others) and your relationship is keeping him in a defensive mode, which results in lying/covering up. You might remind him of someone else that he lied to, or felt he had to lie to - maybe his mother or grandmother.

I'm sorry things are rough right now. Probably the worst thing is to think you can single-handedly change him from his lying, which seems abit ingrained right now.

Better he gets help from someone else.

But question is what you would like in the marriage long term. You need not to be afraid of future. You sound quite self-sufficient financially.

I'm sorry you're going through this with your husband. I wouldn't understand either. Sometimes people lie to avoid confrontation. Is he the "peace at any price" type of person?

To be honest, sometimes I'd much rather lie than have to find myself in the middle of a stressful conflict.

you did say he was a funtioning alcoholic....well thats the type of person that hides drink in their car...

you know about addictive personalitie types, fear filled, have a greater feeling of being less than, manipulitive, avoides responcibilitie at all costs....the alcoholisum and the underlying behaviours and attitudes will be a big part of "his stuff" If he wants to stop see if he will go to AA, he might last more than 1 week not drinking....puting him aside..

what anno asked about staying leavig, basiclie deciding what you want to do has to come first....make that desision then you know the direction you going in and we might be better placed to support you.....or just for the time being don't make the deicstion but but let the situasion play around in your mind as all thing as possibilities...

all said and done lynn its a soar place to be in..