I am caucasian and Hispanic, and my husband is African American. I won't get into the drama of what it has been like as an interrracial couple, but I have been examining our relationship in this context as of late. The reason why is because in the past few years, many of my friends have also started interracial relationships, and all of them have failed. While none of them say it was because of race, I do know that many of them were never open with the other people in their lives about their relationships.

I was trying to figure out why we had been successful and my friends hadn't. I would have to say that it was because neither one of us was shocked by the reactions we received. Don't get me wrong, there were surprises to how people reacted. For instance, I had no idea that my mom would betray my trust and try to shame me into ending my relationship. For the most part, I knew full well that it wouldn't be easy. I immediately told my husband what I knew would happen the moment I deemed we were serious enough.

I think where many of my friends went wrong is that they acted like it wouldn't matter and ignored potential problems. I wish we lived in a world where race didn't matter, and I think we are getting there, but to ignore the problem does no one any good.

It wasn't easy to face the problem. It hurt me deeply to know that my husband, who had never once felt ashamed of who he was, did now simply because of the people that were connected to me. However, it would have devastated him more to be simply kept in the dark about how my family felt or for me to lie to my family and make him feel like a dirty secret.

While things have improved enormously for us, between both families, I still question what it will take to get beyond tolerance to accpetance in some cases. I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this? I also know that some of you have children who are a different ethnicity than you are and was wondering if you every think of what it will be like for them when they enter serious relationships or what you hope they will be able to do when faced with such situations?

First, thanks for being so honest about your situation. This is a big topic for me because I have 2 children who are adopted from Korea and a birth child.

I know that I have a bi-racial family and I love it! It is all I have known for my own family. I don't know how I would have felt if I didn't have this experience. I can tell you that we are who we are, and the color of our skin does not make us that person. Hmmmm, wait a minute, I think it could have some repurcussions for the people who judge us, which I guess would then make us think of who we are, but I know we can't judge people by the color of their skin, yet we do it all the time.

I believe ignorance is the biggest obstacle here. People have said some very stupid things to us through the years. For instance, our first child arrived from Korea when he was 3 months old. Someone asked if he would have a Korean accent when he talked? I thought that was hysterical, yet really showed ignorance.

Education is the key. Any time you can educate people and show them how inter-racial relationships can work, we are working in the right direction. I applaud you for loving the person you fell in love with and sticking to your own feelings.

And yes, I am sure you get the looks like we do. Sometimes I feel like standing up in a public place when people are staring while the kids are saying, "Mom" this and "Dad" that, and just announcing, "They are our kids, for God's sake!" "What is your problem?"

I love it when we go out to dinner and it is the five of us, my son's blond haired girlfriend, and my daughter's friend from Honduras. People look at us like we are some youth group or something! Whatever!

I will add to this post again, but have to go for now. I want to encourage you a little.

I didn't really answer your question, so here is an attempt. I think it is likely that one of our three children (I don't know which one) will more than likely marry a someone of a race other than caucasion. I pray that when the time comes I am more concerned about the heart of the person they are marrying than the color of their skin.

Also, both of my Asian children are dating. So far they have only dated caucasions. To my knowledge the parents of their dates don't have a problem with it. I imagine I would be very hurt when a time comes that someone's parents would have a problem. I can't be ignorant and think everything will always be peachy keen. One day at a time!

I don't judge -- period -- I like people for who they are and how they treat others -- and I don't like people for the same reason -- but interracial relationships are something I don't know too much about -- and if I don't ask questions -- I never will understand PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE believe me that this is only an inquisitive post -- I have a hard enough time growing up myself without worrying about judging someone else's life

First -- my thoughts are that Dotsie really isn't in a interracial relationship -- unless I read her post wrong -- because it was due to adoption that there is a bi-racial relationship there. I have to believe that people that react to this type of relationship are just plain mean. ????

To CHOOSE to put yourself in a relationship that will -- without any doubt in anyones mind -- set yourself apart from the "norm" -- and bring everyone's attention to yourself -- by marrying someone outside your "race" is what I consider a interracial relationship. So this is the first question -- am I wrong in believing this ???

My second question is - if you are a child of an interracial relationship -- you really had no choice in the matter -- so - in this world of such importance of "fitting in" - how does a child of such a relationship feel ???? and I guess my third question would be -- which "side" do you choose to be considered -- I mean -- everyone goes through the "who am I" stage sometime in their life -- does this make it double complicated for a child of an interracial marriage ??? Basically -- you have to choose between mom and dad's race don't you ? Doesn't this make it double difficult for a child of an interracial marriage -- no matter who they marry -- they are interracial due to their own blood so don't they have to "choose" a race ?

And I guess the biggest question I have -- if people in an interracial relationship find it so hard to believe that others can't except it -- why can't they see that a grandma/grandpa might want their grandchild to look like them -- like their child -- like great grandma did -- and can't they understand their feelings of having raised a child with thoughts and hopes of someday having a grandchild they can go to McDonald's with -- or show off pictures of -- and have everyone say "oh what a beautiful little baby" -- only to have their child marrying someone outside their race -- outside their culture -- and know that when they show pictures or go out in public they are going to HAVE to put up with the ignorance of society -- they didn't choose that --that was thrust upon them --

This got really heavy didn't it ? Sorry -- it's just things I've wondered about over the years of hearing people discuss this sort of thing. I've never really known anyone in an interracial relationship well enough to feel comfortable enough to ask

I think the only thing me, myself and I really wonder about is -- is this how we as a people have evolved through the centuries? I mean -- are we who we are -- race wise -- because cultures intermixed and eventually came up with "us" -- and I have to wonder where "we" will be in the year 3003

So I end this now with all my fingers and toes crossed that I haven't offended anyone and we're all still friends !!!!!

[ March 01, 2003, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: lionspaaw ]

Well lionspaaw, didn't you open the flood gates? I congratulate you for putting aside your worries of being offensive in order to better understand something. It is very rare people will do that.

I will try to answer your questions point by point. I don't claim to be an expert, but I will answer your questions based on my own experience, that of others I know, and research, article, books, I've read.

As far as is Dotsie's situation really interacial, it deepends on who you talk to. Many of the people involved with InterFamily Cirle, a group of interacial couples and families based in D.C., are two white parents who have adopted black children. I do think there is a difference in the way people treat adoptive children who are a different race than there adoptive parents. For instance, most people would view Asian children raised by white parents differently than Asian children raised in an Asian household. The adoptive kids are "white" because they were raised by white parents and brought up, usually, with Western, Anglo-Saxon beliefs. It has been reported that many people do not feel as threatened by the idea of someone white marrying a adopted child of anoter race that is raised by white parents. This has to do more with cultural concerns, than just race.

Now, on to the biracial children section. I have no children of my own, but this is my biggest concern since like you said, they did not chose to be born biracial, yet will certainly face the consequences of a biracial life. When it comes to choosing sides, unfortunely many people will make these children chooose one over the other. This will leave them feeling ashamed of one race, potentially hurting the parent of the race they choose not to identify with. Many of these children suffer more from depression, anxiety, etc. because of the identity crisis. However, I do believe things are changing for this. The 2000 Census was the first time you were allowed to pick more than one race to identify with and there were a ton of articles about the surge of peope who selected more than one race. Many schools and colleges also allow this now, and some even have a multiracial category. THere is a national association of multiethnics and some colleges have multiracial organizations, as if mutiracial people were a group in and of themselves with their own identity, issues, and agendas. Famous celebrities are also embracing their biracail or multiracial identities. Tiger Wood even corected Oprah that he was't just black and didn't want to be considered the first black golfer to win the Masters. I definitely believe that the "basically you have to choose," mentality that you mentioned will be eliminated within my children's generation.

I hate to point fingers, but I believe the boomer generation will be the last to feel they need to put someones race into a conversation when you don't know the person. No one in my generation uses someones race in conversation unless trying to determine what someone looks like. Many people on this board may get offended by this, but I know some older people who say in convresations all the time, "and he's black, or and he's Asian, or he's Middle Eastern," when it has nothing to do with the conversation. I do believe that the idea of race will change as races do beome more and more blended.

As far as people in interacial relationships understanding the point of view of those who protest their relationship, I do understand, but only on a certain level. I understood that my mom, whose only experience with white/black relationships was on Jennie Jones and Jerry Springer, would be very concerned for my welfare and safety. She was scared for me because all she knew was this very skewed, and stereotypical, version of what she thought my life would turn out like if I continued my relationship. I was trying to think what I would have thought if the argument was about wanting to have grandkids that look like you. Now, I am going to be honest about this and it's going to be harsh. I could think of no greater selfish reason to be against interracial relationships. I am pretty sure that if either one of my parents made their argument about how I could do this to them, we would have never gotten past it. Unfortunately, you don't get to choose who others are going to fall in love with. I think if your biggest concern is what others are going to think about your grandkids or how dissapointed you are going to be because your grandkids won't look like you, then you're really only dealing with fairly shallow feelings. Your friends and family should not pass judgement on you because of the decisions your children have made, so you shouldn't have to worry about what people will say when you show them pictures. If their your friends, they'll congratulate you.

I hope this has helped you out some in your understanding. There are a lot of things to consider when you get involved with someone who is of a different race than you. Some of it is fun like sharing and participating in various cultural things and experiencing them with a better understanding since you are with someone who can explain it all to you. However, there is the outside world you must learn to deal with. There are various views of how to deal with the outsidee world, from militant to show them your like everybody esle. I think the approach you take depeneds on your personality and the person you are confronted with. Heopfully more conversations like this will mean that no one will have to figure out how to deal with it.

I totally agree with your view on my generation being the last of the "he's this/she's that" and having it "matter". We're better than our parents about it -- but it's still an issue to most people my age.

I'm glad that schools, jobs, that sort of thing are starting to realize that this is going to be an interracial world -- we better start learning how to get along !! We wouldn't be having this international crisis going on if the Koreans and Iraqis and Americans would stop hating each other because of "who we are".

And I understand your feelings about not "choosing" who we fall in love with and someones choice to have children or not and you're right -- parents have no right to decide that for their child -- BUT -- I can see why grandparents would want their grandbaby to carry on the family "image" in pictures. That's just a natural human "thing" -- we like what we like. So I think it's only fair that if a child demands that the parent respects their choice -- the child also has to respect the parents choice not to want to "deal" with society's bigotry. The hardest thing for a parent to do is realize that their child is no longer a child -- and the hardest thing for a child to do is realize they can't have it both ways -- if they demand they be treated like an adult when they want their choice respected -- they can't fall back into "childhood" when they want something from their parents. That's one thing I'm not sure even TIME will change

The issue you brought up about Tiger Woods was a very good one too -- and I'm glad Tiger stood up for his mom for a change -- I happen to be a great fan of his talent but it always bothered me that the emphasis was on his "black" father -- I always felt bad for his mom -- Which brings up the thought -- why did we have to mention his race at all ???? Martina Navratolova (I probably spelled her name wrong) once said to a reporter -- how come the headlines say "Martina the lesbian tennis player" but we never read about "Steve Young the heterosexual quarterback" and when Halle Berry won the academy award -- her white mother was sitting there -- they mentioned her WHITE mother -- and she accepted it as a woman of color -- but the media made this big deal about the first black american woman winning -- now -- there are lots of very good black american actresses out there -- wasn't that an insult to THEM? There still has not been a black american woman win the award -- the first woman of color (and I love that "expression-distinction") won the award -- if we are going to be so "politically correct" then let's get it correct

You mentioned learning about others culture (why we might marry outside our race)and this brings up the one thing that DOES bother me personally about all this "controversy". HBO decided that they should cash in on the black, hispanic, oriental population so they took the fairtales I was raised on and put a black, hispanic, oriental face on them. This is wrong -- you don't educate people by taking THEIR heritage and turning it into someone elses heritage !! This is an insult to all of us -- I'm not going to learn about the African American dance or the Hispanic language or the Oriental traditions or the Native American beliefs if they take MY heritage and put someone elses face on it. In other words -- I would love to learn about the culture of others -- I love Spanish music and I'd love to know more about the African dress and I respect the Native Americans beliefs. I'm not talking about another movie about slaves or cowboy movie -- we will never move on if we keep moving back -- How about a movie telling us about the culture and I don't mean where the black or hispanic is a drug dealer or thug -- none of the blacks or hispanics I know are public enemy number one -- give me a movie about the CULTURE -- art, music, traditions.

We could go on and on and on for days bringing up issues on this. If only we could just solve it all with this forum -- and then send the "answer" to the heads of state around the world -- how about it girls -- up to the challenge ????

I am sitting here with tears in my eyes at the sheer honesty displayed in this forum. Why is it that we don't talk more honestly in person about these things?

I don't want to dwell on the grandchild looking like the grandparent too much because I believe there are other things to discuss, but I will offer this and you might think I am crazy but, the grandchild could still resemble the granparent...why not? Don't you think?

Also, the grandchildren of my two adopted children will not resemble me in appearance at all and I am so cool with that. I look forward to the day when there are people in my family that will resemble my adopted children!

I don't take offense at your comment about the boomer generation, but I do think it depends on who you talk to. I am sure there are boomers who don't have to mention race to get there point across, but unfortunately I know there are still people our children's age who continue to do that. Hopefully the younger generation as a whole is getting better at this. Unfortunately so much of this depends on the circles you travel with.

I believe that the more we educate ourselves and others we offer a better understanding on all of these issues and allow acceptance to GROW. Keep communicating!

Ladies -- please remember I'm playing devils advocate here -- putting some thoughts out there to discuss

Let me give you an example of what I mean about grandparents and grandchildren. A man's mom and dad were blonde/blue or green eyed and so were his grandparents -- he marries a blonde blue eyed woman -- and has a blonde/blue eyed child. Now comes along an interracial marriage -- and a grandchild that's very black skinned and eyed(because the dominant factor of dark over light)and her hair isn't long and blond but short dark and (to be crude) "kinky". Do you think that these grandparents have a right to feel uncomfortable "showing her off" -- oh yes -- in a perfect world of "we're all God's children -- we shouldn't feel that way -- but it just doesn't happen that way.

Plus there's always the family get togethers to consider. Let's reverse this and say that the family is black -- for generations this family has been proud of its heritage and family blood line -- they choose to live in the black neighborhood where grandma and mom and child were raised -- and along comes an interracial marriage -- what are the neighbors going to think when the family gets together -- what are the family members going to feel like sitting at the dinner table with this "outsider". They wouldn't invite their white co-workers to their home but now they have this pushed upon them.

My brother was the first non-Italian to marry into my sister-in-laws family -- I mean for
G E N E R A T I O N S -- He stood out like a sore thumb You and I may not think anything about that -- I mean -- they are both caucasion -- but it put a rift in that family that 30 yrs later hasn't been fixed.

My point --- it should be all stupid and unimportant -- but you and i both know its not. So what do you do? Try to educate yourself? Try to swallow your pride? Turn away from loved ones? I wish I had the answer.

My hopes -- like any new change -- the pendulum will have to sway way to the left and back to the right before it finally finds the middle -- we've been way to the left with our bigotry -- and it's now on its way to the right -- another generation or two and it should find its proper place

And Dotsie -- I think people are afraid to bring these kind of subjects up because the first reaction is to get mad and once there's anger in the equation -- there can't be any discussion.

"I" say something "you" don't like -- and I'm immediately labeled a racist -- there isn't a discussion about it -- like if Fords are better than Chevys -- we react from fear -- fear of being "wrong" -- fear of everyone turning on us -- fear we won't be liked for our opinions and fear is expressed outwardly in the form of anger.

But I love causing trouble and a good debate -- and I like winning contests

Just to clarify about the using, not using race thing. I said that most people I know use race only to determine what some one looks like. Which is fine. What I was saying is that it seems to me that people who are older tend to use race not just to descirbe, but to make it a point in the conversation. Ofcourse there are going to be people who are going to say it doesn't seem that way to me. That is the thing about percpetion, everyones truth is different. So we can go back and forth on this, but I doubt it would change anyone's mind about whether or not one genration tends to view race differently than another. In general, I do believe that each generation is becoming more blended and that it is becoming less of an issue that people feel needs to be dealt with.

I am not going to answer the grandparents thing again specifically, but I am going to answer it in more general terms. I feel the larger issue with this is how do loved ones handle the racism, prejudice, etc.. they feel from others or even themselves? Just like my parents can't control who I love, I can't control how they feel. I do not think it does anyone any good to direct the anger and frustration you may have about what people would think on to the one's you love, which I think you do if you refuse to be a part of their lives or constantly try to get them to change their minds about interracial relationships. I'm talking now more about people who aren't racist themsleves, but worry about other people's views. I think in these cases, it isn't worth allowing what other people will think to create a rift between you and the person. It is unfair that you have to deal with things because your child chose to marry and have children with someone who isn't the same race as you. I guess as a parent you would have to decide whether it was worth possibly destroying your relationship with your son or daughter over. Everyone would deal with the situation differently and would have to weigh what they think they would possibly gain from the approach that they take.