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Conversations;

We in our peer group often wonder: Do women have a life outside their children/grandchildren?

I cannot tell you how many I, and many of my peers, have lost friends because women do not know how to hold conversations that do NOT include children. Granted,we realize that they are a huge part of your lives, but we long to have conversations with our dear friends without feeling like we stick out like sore thumbs.

Sadly we have nothing to offer. Granted, we are happy that you are happy. Remember; WE are extremely saddened by the fact that we cannot join in these conversations.

Please be considerate that not all the world had kids.

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You have no idea how my peers (and myself) are dismissed with "HOw can YOU understand...you've never had kids'!

Yes, we do hear that often! It's horrible.

I wonder if your statement just comes with maturity,'cause young mothers think they DO know it all! LIke they've "arrived" since they have given birth. And yes, we CNBC'er do feel they've lost brain cells or the sense to communicate with their 'old friends' who have not given birth. Can't ya'll hold an adult conversation without talking about kids???

IT's a very hard road for us. We feel like 'freaks of nature', getting the ol' "one eye-lid up" look...like we hated kids and we did not want them!

My goal is to educate that not ALL women have the pleasure of conceiving, feeling a baby (miracle) move within her, give birth and share that time with their loving husband.

It's a dream that never goes away since the time we were all raised/programmed with 'First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes ______with the baby carriage"!

As I was growing up, I never even was aware that there just may be a woman in the world who was CNBC. Not a CLUE,until it happened to me at age 36!

We want others to NOT ASK personal questions; in our minds (and yes, they are very different and can be bitter), when one asks IF a woman has children, it gets "into our bedroom scene" and is very, very personal and can be hurtful. If someone wants to share about their blessings, great. But, please don't ask everyone you meet! It could be one of us sensitive ones. We just HATE that question anymore.

It is not something we can 'get over'. For me, I'll forever be saddened by the fact that I was not able to experience 'it all'. Yes, I do have a full life, but i've had to MAKE it full FOR MYSELF ONLY.

Sharing stories of a daughter's first boyfriend, prom, prom dress, engagement, shower, wedding, grandchild will never be in my life. I live all of this in my dreams..but it will never be a reality.

Try imagining not talking about your children/grandchildren AT ALL for two weeks straight. That is how our lives are. Yes, we are busy...but we don't LIKE it.

And churches can be the worse place to be!. Some preachers have been known to say "you've never understood the true meaning of 'agape love' unless you've had children'. Or "God's highest calling is motherhood or fatherhood'. We do not attend church on Mother's or Father's Day, needless to say. We feel like strangers in a church setting as well. It's ALL about kids!! In fact, we'd love to start a church for oNLY those couples who were not blessed. Even single CNBC'ers have another set of issues,poor things.

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Di, I really hope that you have another passion that has nothing to do with feeling childless or whatever.

I guess when mothers talk about childrearing or when a kid starts up a tantrum when I visit or look after them....for me...it's deja vu. It brings up memories of me, the eldest child who had to look after the little siblings. Not the same thing, but still it's up close exposure to little children and seeing stresses on parents. THe youngest is 10 years younger than I am, so I have strong memories of being babysitter at least once each day, singing lullabyes or lying down so that baby sister could nap in afternoon. Or helping mother wash children in bathtub. List goes on, since my parents couldn't afford to pay external babysitters.

It might have killed any warm fuzzy maternal instincts. Oh well.

So then, I went through a time where I couldn't loosen up to enage in goo-gaga talk with babies and little munchkins. Until nieces and nephews come along.

So occasionally I joke with my partner (who is 64): "Let's make a baby so we can see what s/he looks like". Now this is the last thing he wants, he already has 2 well-adjusted, adult children that are independent.

But really I don't need a baby to satisfy my curiosity, if I want to see what the end result of Asian and German blue-eyed union. I just look at a niece and nephew,products of a sister and her blue-eyed, husband. The children have medium brown hair and not surprisingly, dark brown eyes...

There is no need for me to educate anyone about how treat me better because I'm childless. If they knew what life was like for me growing up, they understand a smidgen why I made the choice that I did ....happily.

Peace be with you, Di.

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orchid, I appreciate your point of view. I especially enjoyed reading what you have to say about women who need to get a life outside of their grown children. I was always so grateful for my mom and dad because after I married, I never felt pressure to be or act a certain way for them. They always enjoyed our company when we were around, but never put pressure on us to do things with them or visit a certain night of the week, etc. I hope to set that same example for my grown children.

Oh, and two of my chldren are Asian, so one day if they marry a caucasian, I may get to see what their children look like.

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Yea, guess you have to see how future unfolds for your 2 adopted kids. Which reminds me of a different topic, I will post elsewhere later today or tomorrow.

As for mothers with grown children who need to get a life outside of children... I was a little amazed when an employee in my dept. said that she doesn't travel because she's been busy.

Well, I guess..with grown children??? I said to her: "But you have a car". She doesn't even drive into Vancouver. She lives about 20 kms. out in the suburbs. It's strange for me to hear this, when I don't have a car but have travelled.

We live in a beautiful part of Canada here on the Pacific coast. She's born in British Columbia, lived in Vancouver for 25 years of her life, but has not visited any of the Gulf islands (only 2 hr. ferry ride away) , etc.