I was never encouraged to get a college degree of any kind. My mother never worked and luckily, she didn't have to because my dad provided nicely but I have always thought how much different her life would have been if she did work. No time to dwell on small, unimportant issues.

I want to add what a really great job you ladies are doing on this forum. I deeply appreciate your wisdom and insight and your willingness to share it here. Thanks!

Dianne,

Thanks for those nice words.

Judy

Dotsie,
Dotsie,

Instilling independence is good. But what I worry about is that young women spend so much time these days achieving independence that they put off maariage until it is very late (sometimes too late) to have children. Read Pam's essay in our book. She is extremely honest about this issue.

Judy

TWO CENTS WORTH:

I think what Dotsie was saying is that women shouldn't think that their self worth is validated by the man in their life. That this man will be responsible for making them happy.

Teaching an independence of the heart and soul will help our children to understand that happiness comes from within and that we ALL have choices available to us.

Independence is a good thing, financially or otherwise. There is nothing that says you can't have it all. My niece works, has two beautiful children, a wonderful husband, and a good solid marriage from all accounts.

But the point I think Dotsie was making is that our Mother's did not have the choices we have today, and the independence she's referring to is not necessarily one of a dollar value, but of learning to NOT settle for less, in a mate, a job, a lifestyle...etc.

We have richer opportunities available to us, and armed with the knowledge, (independence) we can make better choices. Yes? No?

JJ

Hello, All

Lynn, you've lived the life many people dream of -at least those of us raised on Jimmy Buffet and the likes of "Son of a Son of a Sailor Man". I'm sure that the real version is quite different from the imagined one. Congratulations on being so successful in so many areas.

On the impact of mothers, I'd like to share the flip side - my impact on our daughters. I think they plan to live their lives exactly the opposite of how I've lived mine. One's 25 and the other is almost 20. Neither of them appears to be obsessed with getting ahead. My grandfather was an Italian immigrant with ten children when he died in his early 50's because he went to work in the coal mines with pnemonia. He died six months before social security was inacted. My grandmother didn't speak English until the day she died in 1973 at the age of 83. I was 25, and close to her. She warned me not to have too many children. You can believe I selected my major in college based on employability.

Our girls don't think that way. They think work is about having fun. I think work is about constantly challenging yourself to do better, and the fun comes in doing better. Who's right? Go figure.

Carol K

Hi there,
I've browsed through some of the posts in this forum with fascination and definitely will get this book the next time I get to a book store or visit Amazon.
I've been in and out of corporations for about 25 years -- AT&T (Lucent), UPS, IBM, etc. -- as well as being a consultant in the tech world. I never got the rules! LOL!
I became an ardent feminist because of how my father treated my mother and my sister and me. We were continually told we were second class citizens. He was, in his words, "the captain of the ship." My mother worked part time, but never quite got out from under his thumb. They were planning a divorce when she died of the cancer which had wracked her for 10 years.
I have sons. They've struggled. I raised them to think of women as equals -- at least I think I did! Neither of them want anything to do with the corporate world because it made me so miserable and all they saw me do was work.
Great conversation

Casey,

Where were you at AT&T? Always love to have another feminist on board. Though, since you have sons, I assume, like me, you think there are a few really7 good men in this world. I had daughters. But now I'm getting a chance to enjoy grandsons. What a joy!

Judy

Carol-thanks for the kind words. yes, the real Son of a Sailor is quite different.

Actually, that is the topic we are on. My dad was a lifetime Navy man. My Mom a stay at home Mom. She had to be because Dad was traveling the globe for half of my childhood.

My mother always told me "I could do anything I wanted to do" and "Don't get married until you are 27".

I was married at 27, as were my siblings. Just happened that way.

My Mom was a great influence with not settling for anything less and my Dad gave me the itchy feet syndrome. I am part nomad and that drove me to many expereinces which I could draw upon in the work world.

My dad was committed to his employer (and country) for life. I am loyal but not stupid.

I really can't say who influenced me more. They each gave me a bit of their personality and then tried to let me fly. When I flew the coop is when I really began to grow up and maybe that was the greatest gift of all. They taught me how to grow up and then pushed me, and I flew.

I can't answer difinitely Dotsie.

I can say that this work thing is extremely overrated at my age. 6 years ago I felt very different. Today, I have too much to do to work!

Lynn

Judy, I was at AT&T from 1986 to about 1990. (I have this 4-year thing going in my career life -- LOL)

After many bad relationships with men, I finally did the work on myself. Gee, men got better! Or I attracted better men. Or something. :--))

I'm a feminist with the "partnership" and "equality" ideas. I don't think men are bad, just that we tend to socialize them as leaders, "in-charge," have to have all the answers, etc. I have many male friends and they say that all of that can be exhausting after a while.

However, in the corporate world, I think it's difficult for them to give up that power. And to compete, many women adopt the "hierarchical" power mode. It's all part of those unwritten corporate rules. And if you don't comply, watch out!

I think my caution around corporations began when my father, an RCA company man, was laid off around the age of 56 or so. He was devistated. I was in college and my mom was ill with cancer. Somehow he managed to get through all of that and remarried, but he was never happy. Ultimately, he committed suicide. I don't think the corporation was to blame for that, he was never a happy man. But I think the construct in which we raise our male children can leave them with fewer options than we might like.

Sorry for the long-windedness!

Casey, You have given us much to think about.

Lynn