I'm going to be helping my students develop an interactive web site (kind of like this one) and am wondering about helping them deal with conflict on line. So, will you tell me your own experiences? how have you faced, avoided or dealt with conflict on this web site, for example?

A craft forum I belong to has had its share of drama drama drama. The forum is a paid site, paid by the owner. Since she owns it, it is hers and she set up rules. If you don't follow the rules, you get banned. Those who have been banned argue freedom of speech. That doesn't count when it is someone else's paid site and the someone else is paying. If you want to practice free speech, start your own forum, there are plenty of other internet sites to do it on, but it is her PAID site. They're banned because they reduce themselves to really ugly name calling, etc. And of course, the rules state no name calling.

Sometimes it can be defused, but just like in real life, the mob mentality can take over and it gets everyone whipped into a frenzy and turns into a cyber war of the words, and ugly words at that. Interestingly, the original two posters who start going at each other, if a third comes in to defend one of them, then the mob starts turning on the defender, and so it goes on and on. They can turn on you in a minute!

Moderators can sometimes nip things in the bud. Threads can be closed or locked.

It can be a real exercise in diplomacy, psychology and sociology!

I was a moderator on one of the largest published author sites on the web. I did my best to avoid conflicts and ease tensions. That worked well for quite awhile but then the mob mentality took charge once again when I was gone for a week. I came back and told it like it is, it was difficult to treat these established men and women writers like children but thats the way they were behaving. The site owner told them we have two rules. (1.) Treat others the way you want to be treated. (2.) All complaints go through Chatty. She alone will make a decision to go on with, or drop a topic.

To this day the site is friendly, well visited,and helpful to one another because I was forced to cancel the membership of several well known trouble makers, posters, saying NO ONE is above the rules. They were banned for six weeks and told privately if they wanted to return just sigh in again and then behave or be deleted permanently. They knew the rules, and knew there was no such thing as favoritism shown by me.

It has become a quiet, no squabbling, yet interestring site.

Some times people become too impressed with themselves and the importance they believe they have on a forum.

When I was a supervising manager for a major news organization in Washington, D.C. I use to hold meetings where my final words after stating the problems to be fixed were, we are going to play a game, its called, "you bet your job!" Hummm, worked every time too.

The brainstorming prior to the start will show the tendencies that will evolve.
Then the honeymoon time..then the path taken.May go through phases repeating until mature...EXCITING TIMES.

I love facilitating group work...watching people come from the woodwork..how students.. revert.. regress then grow
Power...whether by status or in a persons personality corrupts (I believe) unless companioned with humility.
Even if the project blows up in the students faces they will learn a lot..
The virtual aspect will unfold much...unlike real face to face projects there will be fantasy...and no doubt fingers which press send too quickly .
will you share your finding here..or are you just asking for examples..
if so will this be a survey or open? and how will you evaluate forum experience...given that we are on an open forum..
Mountain ash

i complaine via right channels, i accept when i am wrong or when i misbehaved (who me yes me lol) i keep complaining and keep being myself . I understand when understanding required.

catching more flies with honie comes to mind, be nice treat everyone privatlie as adults and appeal to the muature side of them and sometimes people behave as respectfull mature adults.

ban the buggers that won't play faire when all else failes or when they can't behave.

diologe gotta be so important as its all you have online. Will ther be apponted modiraters for channels of complainet or set procedures. or is this exaclie what your trying to see will develop?

MA,
I really want to hear experiences. I'll share it with you if you like.

Celtic --Good question about moderators and setting up channels for complaint. How does one know if they're playing fair or not? Who decides what's fair?

I'm not sure if moderators is the best route. Chatty above says it worked well in her situation. I also have heard otherwise. Chatty -- did the ones you banned want to come back after 6 weeks, or were they annoyed about it?

If anyone prefers to send me PMs about this, that's fine too.

DJ, I suggest searching the internet of sites similar to the one you want to start. Read their forum rules are and take notes. It's a great way to get started. A lot depends on the spirit you want to create and the purpose of the community.

Dotsie,
I'm interested in personal experiences. (Besides that, I frankly don't have that kind of time.) Will I find those out there? What about your experience? What spirit did you want to create and do you think you've been able to do that? I remember when you decided to use the "hall monitors."

In my opinion, and my satisfaction, it's important to be able to express oneself even if one's beliefs aren't popular with the "whole."
It's well and fine to have a moderator to step on people whom they see as "out of line," but a forum is only as good as it's moderator(s) and their view of conflict as opposed to discussion..
I've noticed that in forums I've belonged to, there are certain people who are favorites with the management who are allowed to go further than those that are not. This game of favorites may be based on how much a poster posts or how much the poster adds to the forum. I've seen new people get the he** kicked out of them for having new ideas because they are an unknown entity.
I think that to truly solve conflict, there needs to be some leeway allowed to posters who disagree but not to the extent of personal insults and slights.
Often a topic is stopped right when it gets interesting because of one or two posters who have taken things personally and let loose of all decorum. We must all remember to practice decorum even when we disagree and we must be allowed to express out view no matter how out of line it is with the masses.

That to me is real discussion and also, how to solve conflict...that is, talk, (type,) it out with open minds.

That is the ideal, anyway.

Dancer

DJ, I wanted a place for women to connect, encourage and support one another. I believe I've been able to do that to the best of my ability. It's not always easy being the "judge" of what connecting, encouraging and being supportive is, but because I own the site, I have to be the judge of that, as you will have the final word on your forums, I imagine.

If you don't have time to surf, then I recommend having a mission or vision statement, or a few words to define the community so members understand the climate of the forum before becoming involved.

I'm sure there are women who come here, read the guidelines, read our posts and jump right in, and I'm also sure there are women who are interested in other types of forums and keep on surfing. That's why it's great that the Web is so vast. There's something for everyone.

Let me know if you need any help with setting up the site. I'd be happy to help.

DJ you say
If anyone prefers to send me PMs about this, that's fine too.
.......
I believe that sending a PM would be opening the door to creating
An informal sub forum…

................
My questions
Is this project validated by an award
from a College/University? is it part of a larger award?

Do you follow a prescribed programme
with your students where an exlemplar
guides you?

How long is the course/project?

Do you have peers to evaluate and support you?

What level have the students reached
in their undestanding?

.......
I show interest because I believe this is a hot topic .My belief is that a safety net would have to be provided. eg debriefing and student support.

Mountain ash

Thanks for the generous offer Dotsie. I may take you up on it one of these days!

The internet site will be on media literacy as an outgrowth of a particular course: Critical Theory and Popular Culture. Critical theory calls for putting theory into practice. Students who were in this course have grasped the importance of starting media literacy at younger ages.

By award, MA, I think you mean grant? Not at this point anyway. It'd be nice though. I have a salary. This is part of my vision. I won't actually do it until next fall, most likely.

While I like the idea of this open forum, I'm also open to the idea of an informal sub forum if people don't feel comfortable talking about it here.

The conflict question is related to the above-mentioned site, but I may deal with it separately as an academic pursuit depending on what I find out.

DJ, I try very hard to communicate the problem I see to the person involved, quietly, and if he/she persists then they have to pay the consequences. But every consideration is given and offered before being banned.

Of the eight to ten banned, all came back but three. Those three posts as guests from time to time but have not rejoined. They have however also not caused anymore hurt feelings or arguments.

I had a brain storm one day as how to remove myself as moderator and remain just as a member so no one had me to be mad at, and complain to constantly looking for favoritism, which they never found...

PM me and I will share my secret, NOTHING has ever worked so well and several other well known sites have contacted me and copied my method...It truly works magically!

Award...I mean points towards a diploma/degree therfor part of a whole aademic award.

I wear two hats...my own education and profession and my training
as counsellor/communication which was within a hospital but validated by a University.My co students were cancer specialists and nurses and we shared case histories and practice.

Pastoral training with Church...Spiritual intent further taught me that for me an holistic attitude is best practice..works.

The course I most recently undertook was.."Spiritual Care in the Health Care Setting" run by Professors..Chaplians and Doctors and an interesting student cohort. What we were we took to the classroom.
Critical reading...again my forte...and my belief is that a virtual envirornment is an untapped venue.
Like my last course people bring what they are...and unless moderated can cause conflict.
SELF moderation would work best.as Dancer said manners.

Your studentS will know each other therfore be unlike this forum..and will debrief in their presentation.

Wishing you sucess with your course....
Mounain ash

MA -- You would've loved the conference I attended (in Malibu, in January!) a couple of years ago, about incorporating spirituality into teaching. I was invited based on an essay I wrote in 2006 for a volume called "Spirituality, Ethnography & Teaching: Stories from Within." My essay is about my 10 years of experience teaching at a day treatment center for adults with emotional and mental illnesses. The retreat center was a mansion and is now a monastery, on top of a hill overlooking the Pacific. You can't imagine a more beautiful place -- it was built in the 1920s by people who lost their money in the '30s -- they owned a ceramic tile factory so the place is adorned inside and out with these beautiful tiles.

I'm going to be making this forum for the public. Students will be asked to participate, but I'll be the "owner" like Dotsie.

Yes, I agree - - People bring what they are and self-moderation works best.
However, we do come from such different backgrounds and environments. As Dancer also says, some people take things personally.

Still, anyone, please share your experiences. How does it feel to be "moderated" by the moderator? Have your feelings been hurt? Have you been misunderstood? Have you been treated fairly?

Okay, now really, maybe it's best to share this in PM. I don't want to create a firestorm here.

Parrarel story from me..
I visited a mansion house many times built by shipowners McBrain in the hills..as a guest..over looking beautiful countryside..as high as the tallest firs was the balcony..watched Halleys comet from there...
there was a retreat/ health improvement spa and my bolt hole and spiritual safety comfort blanket.
so wherever we are...live.. teach.. practice..we are all part of the same
I am no longer puzzled when similarity occurs..but heartened.

my belief was the very stones of the building were in part healing..left by people who sought and found solace..

nothing of pretence.. everything authentic.
Mountain ash

DJ,
In answer to your questions:
I belong to two sites, this and one that is invitation only for those in the entertainment industry. I check in often in the other forum to talk to friends and to debate issues we face and issues affecting the world. Many performers are well read, even published and have a first hand view of the world, as I like to think I do.

I have NEVER been censored, scolded or moderated on that site and I've been a member for over 8 years.

Here, I have been scolded, told to do this or that with my posts, asked not to do this or that and PMed more often in this way than I would have imagined I ever would be.

My honest feelings? I feel the scoldings have been unfair, stifling and unneeded. I feel I know how to show decorum and my little spats with those on this site have mostly been defending myself from a "regular," who has decided to insult me.

I have felt "ganged up on," in the past and have left for a breather and not returned but for those who have emailed me asking me to come back.

I dislike, to answer your question, being scolded or told what to do with my posts when I do not call people names, and when I am only defending myself. I dislike the clique I find on this forum.

That said, there are many lovely women here on this forum. They keep me here and I find them interesting even if they do not post often. They are worth the scolding, ( and the PM's do read like scoldings,) and other hassles I have encountered.

This site is great for talking to women of your age about things that happen to all of us but for me, the experiences I have that are different from the status quo are not open for discussion because when I have brought them up, they have been ignored, even insulted.

I am only being honest here because I believe being honest will bring us to understandings we don't have. Again, the site is worth it in many ways. I beleive Dotsie and her interviews are a good reason to join her organization and I think she shows an open mind in many ways so I know the owner, at least, is a person who is trying.

As to your study, I am open to all those who wish to study and understand how people relate. I feel that if we related better in this country and were less afraid of those different from us we could find more peace in the US. There is too much separation and a forum can re-enforce separation if it is not careful to include any and all comers. I don't wish to belong to a forum that is closed to new ideas and discussions.

This is just me, and I'm doing my best to answer your questions because I chose to. Again, I am all for open communication.

I should say that I hold no personal annomosity towards those who have disagreed with me or even called me names. I pity them to be truthful. It's a sad day when one is reduced to bullying and name calling to try to win a discussion. It tells me that that induvidual has personal issues that have nothing to do with me.

Best to you, DJ, and good luck on your study. We should all study all that we can.

Dancer

Mountain Ash, I love your signature line!

Yours,
Dancer

I have great admiration for Dotsie, as to how she handles conflicts; - short, and to the point. I think that is the only way to moderate. Lengthy explanations as to why, - just brings on more discussions.

Another important fact is that moderating is not just about disciplining, but to keep the forum alive. Dotsie does that brilliantly, and her genuine interests in the posts, along with her personal comments, is probably the secret as to why so many feel 'listened' to, and keep coming back.

Probably everyone has witnessed conflict on this site or experienced it first hand. In another thread above under Friends Heal Friends last month, during the political campaign ("Have we forgotten the real purpose of this forum?") posters were reminded of the rules of behavior Dotsie has attached to this site, and seemed to want to eliminate all conflict. Is that possible, or even reasonable, when you have so many different women coming together to talk about "whatever"?

What I'm wondering now is, how does coming together on this site compare with face to face (FTF) encounters? Is conflict handled differently here than in your non-virtual life? It's been mentioned that here we have moderators and rules. Aren't there rules of behavior in the FTF world? What makes it different here? Is it _just_ that we can't see each other?

Related to that, is, if we saw each other in the FTF world, would we think "Oh, there's an interesting person I could be friends with"? Of does the anonymity of just typing make it easier to share secrets and connect deeply with others on this site?

I've read comments now that say things like: if conflict isn't handled correctly, it contributes to our feelings of separation. And another that says that conflict can make her feel unsure of herself and sort of lost.

So, here's what I want to know: is it easier to be hurt deeply on here because the passions are stronger? Or less likely because we are strangers in some ways?

Why does anyone have to be hurt? Kind people are kind, whether in person or online! True? It is possible to disagree in a
respectful, gentle manner. IMO!

Jabber,
Well, the fact is that people are hurt. Maybe that's where non-verbals come in. You can't tell online if someone is smiling, or speaking in a soft voice. We only have the written words. And then doesn't it also depend on our abilities to write clearly and to read carefully?
Are we the same sensitivity level in person?

I beleive a lot of it has to do with mood, whether in person on online. Moods change. What one might interpret one way today, they may interpret differently later after enjoying themselves with a friend, or after bickering with a colleague. Just a thought.

I have seen what I would call cyber bullying in a forum atmosphere.

Many get their nose out of joint and retaliate in some nasty ways.

Some just want to stir up crap and there are those who are genuinely hurt by this.

There are those who just can't let it go and others who have to have the last say.

The differences in forum atmosphere and real life? I think, reading it without the attached emotion of hearing how it is "said" for one.

Some times tho I belive it was written for 'nasty' and then explained as 'sorry but you took it the wrong way'. In other words...I was making a dig but now I am renaging on it now that I've gotten my point across. Sort of marthyr like.

I think people are more apt to write their feelings when they are not "seen" more so than face to face.

I also believe some posters are more gutsy to respond in writing that if it were verbal confrontation.


If you believe in something I really don't care if you're right or wrong. I respect your beliefs and would hope to have your respect in return. If you don't respect me then I could care less. It's your perogative. I don't need you.

There is ALWAYS one or two who cannot rest without conflict in a forum... It's their life on the computer. They will research and go to great lengths to prove "them" right. They live breathe and eat discontent if they are confronted.

Am I talking about you? Well...yes if you think I am.

But don't expect me to get all riled up...it's not my style.

While I'm at it, let me say that this is just my honest opinion...not to be tampered with or confronted.

I like to avoid controversy...my life is way to good and way too short to be miserable let alone make someone else feel that way.

Especially someone that I have never had the pleasure of meeting face to face.

DJ, I think the question has to be asked: How real is this world to the member as opposed to their real life?

For example, if this site is very real to a women and friends here are real friends, they would be hurt by a post much more than if not.

Take me for an example. My real friends would never post to me as people here have and do. My real life friends seem to know me SO,SO much more than those here, even people I don't know very well, and the interchanges are 180 out in the forum than they are in my real life.

I am honest here on the forum as I can be and I am so in my real life as well. People here know the things that my real life friends and those I know slightly know but the reaction to me is so different it is almost comical.

Because of this, I don't take an angry member that seriously. I know that if they knew me they would not be posting the way they do to me.

And example would be that the most outstanding character traits I have in real life if you were to ask my friends are sensitivity, kindness and honesty. I am soft spoken, careful in how I talk to people and work very hard to understand others.

This is not the person I would say that is seen on this forum.

So, I feel that if this forum is a strong part of your world, if you feel that everyone here knows you well and speaks to the real you, you would react to conflict much, much stronger.

If you remember that we are on the internet and knowing each other is limited by that, for example not seeing one's face and inflections there, you cannot take it so seriously.

There are people who live a lot of their lives with words and on computers. I feel those people will take MUCH out of an exchange and internalize it compared with someone like myself who uses my real life to gadge myself and my character. If I feel someone here sees me in some way that is "off," I don't feel that hurt because I have enough of a life to know that others closer to me know it's not true.

I don't have many studies to refer to because I do not stay on the internet that long and I am in a different feild entirely than most here. I think that perhaps Orchid can relate as she puts much time in her body by cycling and that is time consuming as well as enriching to your circle of friends.

But people ARE hurt here, I know from PM's and they are angry at times, I also get PM's about that.

Yours is an interesting question and an interesting area, I feel.

I would also state that we should never write something we would not say to a persons face. THAT is dishonest and living through a computer...

Interesting...

Dancer

I agree with Dotsie. One day I'll see a particular subject a certain way, and the next day I'll see it from another perspective. Either that's mood change or perception change?
Who knows. Some women are extremely sensitive. Perhaps that's
hormones? Who knows. But I say join in and have fun. Enjoy life. Why waste energy getting bummed about anything?

Jabber, it's all fun.

Dancer, you raise a number of interesting points. Especially about the personas we have on line. I definitely haven't seen you as soft spoken. But it makes sense that you are -- some of my quietest students are the best and most forceful writers. A lot of my colleagues say the same thing -- the kid in class who never says a word then whams you with a paper full of some incredible insights.

And Chick mentions something similar, about how some may write more forcefully than they would speak in person.

I know I come across as more of a nerd than anything else. People who know me know I have a great sense of humor and sense of fun, but my humor is very dry. It has mostly fallen pretty flat on this site, so I avoid it.

I wonder what others think too: is there a conflict -- or just a difference -- between your self-perception and your ability to express yourself in writing?

Some people can't express their feelings when speaking. And
there are days when I can't say what I mean, write what I mean,
or react as I should. IMO women are very sensitive and that
sensitivity gets in the way of doing what they'd do, if they
felt good, weren't tired or worried, etc. C what I say???

I've been avoiding this thread, I'm so uncomfortable with conflict, whether online or FTF, that it actually makes me nauseous to have to deal with it. I'm hyper-sensitive, and know that about myself, so know to watch that I don't infuse other people's words with my own insecurities or skewed perspectives. Sometimes I have to leave a discussion to mull it over from different angles, usually trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the other person (though sometimes that ends up being to my own detriment). There have been a few times when a poster's comments have taken my breath away, and I've had to check with someone else to see if that's really what they were saying or if it was just me coloring their intent with my own faulty interpretation. Again, I just often have to shrug my shoulders and just swallow down the perceived hurt and give the other person the benefit of the doubt, for the sake of the community and because at heart, I prefer to nurture peace than conflict.

What might be difficult for some people to understand is that for some of us, right or wrong, this community IS our world. I'm housebound because of anxiety, which hopefully will eventually change. But for now, this community IS my lifeline to the outside world. I have no friends outside of here. That reality snuck up on me, and that too has to change, but for now, that's just how it is. This community has helped in more ways than I can elaborate here. But it is so vital to me, again, right or wrong, that if something is said here that makes me feel ostracized or attacked, it has the power to incapacitate me with grief. Poor Dotsie has had to deal with my angst over that a couple of times in the past, but with her help, I've just decided to trust that nobody here ever means great harm to anyone else, and if they do, then that will be noticed by others beside me and will be addressed. I cannot decide on my own, because I'm flawed by my own insecurity and angst, whether a post is or isn't truly mean-spirited.

So I think that the perception of conflict is often very subjective, depending on another person's sensitivities, moods, and however the written (or spoken in FTF) words/ideas impact them on their way through each person's inner translation process.

Conflict is conflict to me. I don't like it online or FTF.

I think the best thing is to come up with some guidelines and get started. You will learn something new every day. I promise. And it's just like anything else, you prepare all you can, and you will still learn as you go along. Think positive, be the good example with your posts, and take it from there.

DJ, I look forward to hearing more about this when we get together after Christmas.

Eagle
thank you for sharing.
I too have avoided adding to this topic.I saw where it was going from the first posts and purely for self preservation stayed out of things.DJ you brought this post forward
with this in mind....that we discuss ealier posts.
to elaborate.
my husband had an accident and was in hospital now I am nursing him and therefor home(bit like you Eagle)and the computer is a companion.My book my poems all solace between tasks.my friends messages balm to my soul.
Prior to the posts you discussed DJ I would have discussed my situation...The content and reaction to the posts where some saw nothing..some cared some seemed to be on a roll changed my perspection.
I found myself posting...so as to show I was staying.choosing who to post to.this is what hostility does to me.
its not fun...its not kind and if no one means what they say then why say things that are unkind..so the process changed me and my sharing.
the outcome is that I am still thinking if I have anything to offer the forum...
No one knows what another is living through...so for me this may be the wrong place at the wrong time..
I HAVE had kindness and actually its how I see others being treated that hurts...and I can and do tie my thoughts into my Christian life...

some students would say things...then when the going got hot say "ONLY KIDDING" this seems to happen here...then there is the fall out...the dust storm.
as Christmas is special for us here.it is another reason that I said nothing earlier..but instinct tells now is the time to say how things are for me...
to the lovely friends here.thank you for your friendship.
Love and blessings
Mountain ash

MountainAsh..I don't have time to reply here as I would like..but I would like to say that you echo my thoughts, feelings and disappointments..that I have felt here over the last month or so.

As you know, I also am going thru alot..but I hesitate to share here as I have done in the past..for fear of being "out of order"..not in the swing of things. Is life always on the upswing? I think not..and I thought this forum was for sharing? Do I have to stop sharing when I am not all smiles and things are tough? I didn't feel this way before.

Does this mean you are leaving the forum here, MountainAsh? This would be a great great loss for everyone here..and for me personally.

Oh sweet MA and Humlan...I'm so sorry you have felt you cannot share, regardless of the situation, the topic, the emotion. You have each supported me in such a huge way and I look forward to doing the same for you, if needed and wanted. Maybe I'm in a time warp, or maybe it is because I am newer to the forum, since I haven't felt the disappointments you have described.

If I have, an any way, contributed to that feeling I want to know so that I can improve.

In the meantime, please know I, for one, would miss your voices tremendously. And if we can't commune here, for whatever reason, would wish to find a way to stay in touch.

I haven't had the blessing of meeting you in person and yet I feel a kinship that touches me deeply.

MA, I had no idea your husband was in an accident. I'm so sorry to hear. How is he healing? And how are you doing while caring for him?

humlan, it's good to see you're posting from the states.

I'm saddened to hear that women are disappointed with responses here at BWS. I wish I could understand what responses have been out of order when it comes to sharing about personal issues. I try my darndest to keep up with the posts, but have somehow fallen short.

That is the point Dotsie...
the ethos (and I only speak for myself)was left so high up in the air and unresolved.GOOD women tried to aid the forum and you untimately.In my own case out of love..for all I have gained here and out of respect.

I prayed for a whole night for the God Willing to keep my family intact.Its been hard and is ongoing.

In that turmoil I had the clarity to see that a living entity as the BWS is has to be nurtured and fed..you have here the talent to do this and my non sharing says that something in me died..so I analyised further and saw my voice is not valued here.
decided that to play the GAMES speaking only to some answering others ignoring some not responding was not good enough for me.

DJ should really ask all the women who have left...I see many fine contributors in the archives see if there is a common thread...when you started this post DJ I TRULY pray it was in authentic caring not some experiment.

We are not a commodity .yes new people will come along but what about the hearts and souls of those who are wounded.

in society those who break rules are entitled to be told they have done so...if they dont see for themselves that they have done so. Perhaps moderation may be a step to consider.
I DO realise everyone has a different moral reasoning.
But the loud voices are not always correct.

My final contribution to this post.
Mountain ash

I feel terrible that anyone needing support has not recieved it on this site! When I see a post where someone is hurting I try very hard to support them with all the compassion that I feel. I feel very badly that I didn't know that you had illness in your family, Mountain Ash, and I'm so very sorry for what you must be going through. I know you are a deep thinking, and very poetic and you must feel very strongly when someone you love is hurting. Godspeed with healing and I hope you will care for yourself as well as you are a lovely person.

Eagle Heart, I thank you for sharing too. I had no idea that this site WAS your home at this time. When I first posted to this thread, I mentioned that to some this could be their connection to the world. If that is so for you, it is good for you to share that so others can treat you in kind. I am very sorry if I ever hurt you with a post and you belond here as much as anyone. Please don't feel you have to pull back because of a few hot topics on this forum.

I feel the women here, for the most part, are kind and want to do the right thing. If there is a hot topic, it may be better to stay away from it and know it is not there to hurt you.

I am hurt here as well by one or two posters whom I try to avoid. It's hard, I know, when you feel that someone holds malice towards you.

Personally, I hold no malice, as I said in my original post towards anyone here. I like that current events can be discussed, as well as harder subjects, but I want room for the support this site can provide as well. Our lives have hurts in them daily at times and we must feel safe here.

I think that over time, the "hot topics," will separate themselves from the support needed and we can have both.

I am an optimist but I do believe, again, that all the women here are good and compassionate women.

Dancer

Mountain Ash, I hear what you are saying about the birth of this post. I think that DJ is caring and has compassion or I would not post on the thread.

I agree with you , however, we are people, and we need to feel that we are when we are here.

Dancer

MA, your voice is and always has been valued by me and many others here at BWS. I always look forward to hearing about your life and your interest in the lives of all the others here at BWS. I'm so sorry to read your words. It's heartbreaking. It really is.

DJ, while I know this post was started to understand how you can best run your forum without conflict, I think it's hurting the spirit of BWS. If you have what you need, I'm ready to close it.

I'm sure some will disagree with this, but I think we need to move on.

Before you close it Dotsie, I want to say to everyone here who responded, no I'm not doing an "experiment." I'm very interested in online community-forming, on many many levels. I've been on this site since it started, 6 years ago, and have watched it grow and made many friends, though other than Dotsie, I've only met JJ in the flesh. And that's so interesting to me -- that we can be scattered all over the world, live in countries where different languages are spoken, and actually CONNECT with each other and form a community, with its own rules, and its own hierarchies, and its own characteristics. It's really rather amazing. And it doesn't have anything to do with our nationalities, or ethnicities, or race. It's truly a meeting of the minds. And one of the things I'm really really curious about is whether this community feels as "real" or more "real" than the community outside your doors. It's not an easy question to answer. See, I think that "culture" exists in our minds. It's not external, and it's not physical. So that means that you can create culture electronically, so to speak. Boomerwomen is a world unto itself.
thank you thank you all for sharing.
Dotsie, I'm sorry you have to close this thread. I really don't think it's hurting anything, but what do I know.

I think it's amazing that our hearts have been opened to women around the world through this site. I'm tickled that women from other coutries have met face to face and truly created life-long friendships.

However, parts of this post are making me cringe. Possibly it's because the truth hurts, but it's tough for me to read how BWS upsets people at times. It was never my intention. I know a perfect forum doesn't exist, but I like to think this is as close to what I launched it to be - a place for women to connect, encourage and support one another - as possilbe. To think that I've spent all these years and countless hours creating something that's hurtful is upsetting, so I must stay focused on all the good that was also posted in this thread. Yes, that's what I must do.

Dotsie, you created a wonderful, warm, healing place...a Godsend to countless women, and there could never be enough words to speak adequately to the wondrous gift you have given to so many through BWS. That some have been hurt within the exchanges here is inevitable, unfortunately it's unavoidable when so many different personalities and cultures and ways of thinking come together. That doesn't negate or invalidate the wonder and gift that BWS is, in fact, to me it shows just how much we DO need this place and each other. We're always going to be evolving, learning, experiencing growing pains, stepping on someone's heart now and then. But the overall experience here, the overall environment here is GOOD and healing and wondrously life-giving.

As we continue to evolve, expectations have to evolve as well. This can never be "all things to all people", and you can't take on the responsibility for trying to make it that or for feeling responsible when it can't meet all of the needs of all of the people. The ownership for any unrealistic expectations lies squarely on each woman's shoulders and those who need more, will find it elsewhere, and those who understand will stay and continue to nurture and evolve this community.

Your years and hours have created a wondrous gift, Dotsie. Lives have changed, lives have been enriched, lives have been empowered, and lives have been saved because of BWS. Trust that, trust that even in the seemingly conflicted moments, God is still at work here, doing here what He had in mind when He whispered the vision in your ear. There is no doubt whatsoever that the Spirit moves within these hallowed cyberhalls.

Eagle, thanks for your kind and thoughful words. I appreciate them so much. Thanks for changing my focus. I needed it. And thanks for the reminder that God's at work. You're absolutely right.

It's rare that I focus on the negative, extremely rare, but while reading this thread, that's all that was popping out to me; all that is wrong with BWS. Okay, my whining is over. Onward.

And I can't say it any better than Eagle Heart has, so I second her words Dotsie. You're a gift to so many and I'm grateful to have found such a wondrous place to share time with so many wondrous people.

DJ you asked a good question:

I feel this community is as real as the life right outside of my door. I think of you ladies even when I'm not posting. You are all a big part of my daily life.

It amazes myself how often I'm on the thread, and prefer reading all your posts, over reading some women's magazine or watching TV. You are all very real and dear to me. And I for one, get a heck lot more out of communicating with you, then just sitting in front of a television set.

Yesterday while wrapping my Christmas gifts I was listening to the radio station that Dotsie once posted. I thought, I would never have found this music myself. You ladies have enriched my life in so many ways. When I'm down, you have pulled me up. You rejoice with me, and vent with me. Of course there are issues that I haven't agreed with. And I have to admit, sometimes I shook my head in disbelief,…but I got over it…and the pros always outweighed the cons.

Nothing is perfect. And I think that is a part of becoming older and wiser; not to expect perfection.

Many a time I have posted, and no one has responded. That happens to all of us. I think it's really therapeutic just to vent, write poems, tell jokes, complain, express our sympathies, and do all this…without any expectations or taking it personally if no one responds.

MA, I'm so sorry to hear about your husband's accident. Please don't carry your concerns by yourself. Share your worries and thoughts with us. It truly helps ease the burden. And we truly care.

Humlan, I know you had an intense time with Lady Jane and Di. I miss their presence too…but the rest of us chickens are here for you. You are going through so much right now, it's overwhelming. All I can say is share share and share…one of us will respond, and maybe help you lighten your path.

And I really am here. There are times I have about 10 minutes in the wee hours of the morning to peruse the postings but so much on my mind to get into my day. When I have some time, as I have this morning, I try to come back and post. I'm forever here because I love it. I have "met" some true genuine, beautiful souls and it would be a horrible loss to give it up. Dotsie has created a warm place here. If some choose to make it a constant debate, then so be it. As Eagleheart said, this responsibility lies on the shoulders of each woman here. We can choose where to post and what to join in on. I'm here for friendship and fun. My life is too intense to want to take it all here! When one is busy and giving there will be little time to focus on the negative in an online forum...my opinion, of course. BWS is my wonderful outlet and will remain so!

Dotsie, you HAVE created a great forum here. I feel the latest posts that have some current events in them are just a sign of the forum growing to add some people who have thoughts in that direction. I am NOT saying that this should be a site for debate, not at all. However, if we do not debate on one or two threads, we do not learn and do not grow! We have much to learn from one another and it does not always take place in the "tea party," setting.
The women here are all dear, even those who participate in debate threads, they are just being themselves. Some live in the here and now, as DJ does with what she teaches at her school.
She cannot be a Media professor and be uninformed as to the current events going on in our world.
I feel that no one wants to hurt anyone here. The women are kind and yes, I remember when each thread was supportive in it's facade, but there were still clashes. There will always be clashes.
I was hurt the worst when the forum was in this "support mode," myself!

My statement stands: This is an excellent site which I believe is going through growing pains. Good will win out. Dotsie, you are a good person and like me, maybe harsh words hurt your eyes, I know they do mine. However, we can stay away from threads that make us emotional and understand that those who for some reason need to stay current should be allowed to.

This has nothing to do with this thread of course. I just thought it was time to say what I felt.

Dancer