Church Christians and Practicing Christians...even Christ took his whip to the "former" while at the same time denouncing them.

Dianne - you don't have to look far to find a fallen Christian. I usually just look in the mirror.

Like Mom always tells me, "Sandra, if you're seeing the sin in other folks, you've taken your eyes off Him."

Good words to live by.

Maybe that's what I'm tired of...looking for the sin in others and myself instead of the good.

Dotsie,
Loved it. Dianne when I read what you wrote this morning I kept thinking but when two or three are gathered together and that can be anywhere.
What I get tired of is other Christians trying to convert people who already believe. I always want to scream go find someone else who doesn't have all this. Would you believe one minister gives a sermon on this after a funeral here. I told my husband next time I'm leaving before he gets to that part.
Don't give up there others who are more open
and forgiving. I don't blame you for feeling the way you do.
Maggie

Hi Dianne: My heart aches for you as I've had a very similar experience; and I, too, have become turned off by "organized religion."

I've found, through this board, and Faithwriters, an online group that I am able to find refreshment in; and of all things, through my writing group.

Our relationship with Christ is above all the most important part of our walk. Ted Dekker is an author very much in the limelight today, and he explores the subject of how the church just doesn't get it.

I get to interview him soon, and I have some questions for him; I stumbled upon "When Heaven Weeps," and I've never in my entire life had a more moving experience in my life. The story is not Christian fiction - many Christians have expressed dislike, even hate, at the story, because it exposes mankind's inability to see itself through the eyes of Christ, and to experience what God is - Love! Passionate, obsessive, the great romance type of love.

After I read "When Heaven Weeps," I underwent an inner cleansing, much needed at the time. I immediately went and purchased the rest of his books, and each one has helped me, exposed me, and driven me to frantically seek the fullness of God's love for me.

And I've been disappointed by the "Church."

For many reasons, I don't attend church regularly: ex-girlfriends of my husband being one of them; my health; and "fitting in." Because pain keeps me housebound at times, especially in winter, I find solace in fellowship with friends and writers, and e-mail has opened up another avenue of communication, which reminds me of Paul's letters to the various churches.

I see myself in a non-traditional church setting, and I long for one in which I feel welcomed and not condemned if I can't be there every Sunday; Sometimes I feel closer to God just watching a sunset, or reading a book, looking at a photograph, feeling the unabashed joy my dogs feel when I come home, and an instant connection with an e-buddy or two.

I've even thought of starting my own "church," but hate to even call it "church." Over the years, the word itself has attached itself to many unpleasant things and given the world an unGodly view of the true meaning of "Christian."

During the past year, I've felt God drawing me closer through some of the most bizarre ways, and he's opening new avenues - maybe he's disillusioned also?

You all know I'm doing the editor thing at Sisters in the Lord, and the whole thing came about in a very weird way. I sent in a submission. No big deal. A couple weeks later, I was invited to choose a position (volunteer), and I qualified for all of them, but thought I'd enjoy photography the most. But it seems God has a plan for me, and I almost missed it.

Through Sisters in the Lord, my "church" family has grown to include many special people who each minister to me, fellowship with me, and learn with me.

I guess I just wanted to say that you are not alone; and there are many who feel as you do. The church who doesn't want you to participate because of your husband's behaviors is way off the mark, though. And it's that kind of church that Jesus wouldn't attend.

The sick need healing and comfort, not a puffed-up diatribe about "acceptable behavior." I'd be shaking the dust from my feet from that place, in a flash. Don't they realize it's exactly these types of situations where God is needed the most? And not to condemn, but to lift up and cherish and breathe new life.

So sorry you've had this experience. I'll speak to God about it in prayer.

Di

Dianne, there are people who claim to be all sorts of "religious" who live with hypocrisy and hatred in their hearts. Unfortunately, you find them everywhere. They think that just because they've labeled themselves (whatever) religion, that makes them a religious person.

Spirituality comes from a place deep inside, and everywhere around us. Some people access it better by belonging to a certain religion or fellowship or congregation, and other people may find that these external things are not as important as the internal motivation. Some people do both.

What is important is that you understand your spiritual values, whatever they may be. Look for love and light wherever you go. If some people are petty and hypocritical, don't define yourself against them; just keep walking. You can only lose that game if you play it.

If you feel you need a church, then keep looking until you find one. Don't let the bad ones get you down. If you don't need a church, then don't be guilty. Sit down with yourself, and figure exactly what you DO need, and then go about finding it. Also understand that what you need at one time in your life, may not be what you need in another.

You have wasted too much energy reacting to negative people. YES, you should be angry, but it's time to move on your own path.

You are a good person. Your light shines through in the work you do and the way you care for others. When you dwell on negativity, then you let the shadow obliterate the light.

Thanks Meredith. Because I live in The Bible Buckle, I get asked a lot what church I attend. We have a church on every corner.

I have started defining myself more spiritual. My ancestor's were Native American and their God was nature and all the beauty that surrounded them. They were told that they were wrong.

I'm not sure why this bothers me. Maybe because some people feel it necessary to preach to me and basically, they're preaching to the choir. I love God and it's the people who are so self-righteous that make me crazy and condemn me for not going to a church on a regular basis. What about my heart? I do good or try to and I reach out to help others and try to help battered women but I'm told I'm going to hell regardless. I don't believe that for one minute.

In my work with battered women, almost all of them have been abused by some church in their past. I can't even bring up God without doing so very carefully. I have to say Higher Power. And, that's okay. Whatever helps them to reach out.

I suppose what brought this to the front of my mind was a long discussion my sister and I had in France. It was basically..."What happened to us?"

Amen to that. ''

I have seen years a ago . My mother's cousi husband . He would sit and pray and have prayers sessons at his home and they turn around and be mean and curl to others. What good was it to read the bible and then not practice what you preached. He died a horrible death and he suffer so . I remember the morfin they gave him could not kill the pain he had . I told my mother he would die a horrible death and he did . His daughter is my mother's cousin and she is in pain also now. See a pattern to this.? I do!

[ January 31, 2005, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: Nancy50 ]

Dian, I'm going to check out the author you mentioned. Thanks for sharing.

Have any of you read Joseph Girzone's books? If not, please go to Amazon and read about them. They are life changing.

Joseph was a priest and left the ministry to write about Jesus...and boy does he know Him well. I was tickled to meet him at a book signing. He shared that his books are now being used in seminaries around the world to educate seminarians about the spirit and heart of Christ.

I started reading them years ago when I was reintroduced to Christianity. His books have educated me more about the heart of Christ than any other books I've read.

I highly recommend the Joshua Series, Never Alone, and A Portrait of Jesus. I've given them as gifts in the past. They are life changing reads!

Please check them out and send me an email if you choose to read them. I'd love to know what you think.

Smile, I think you would love reading his work while you're recovering. The reading is very simple, but extremely profound. The days will whip by.

Meredith and Dotsie made such perfect comments I almost didn't post but decided this needed to be said if only for me. I was brought up Catholic and attended school plus catacisim classes for 12 years. But I had been terribly disalusioned many years earlier at age 11 when in the choir loft while preparing for a solo the priest placed his hands on my breasts while telling me what a beautiful child of God I was. I expected any minute for lightning to come down and smite hit dead, but it never did and from that day forward I had no belief or faith in religion. As you may all remember ashile back I found a new church to attend and began to feel good about religion and the people around me, then I began to feel estranged when I was NOT a couple. All that matters to this bunch is family and marriage. The just dump together the rest of us, the widowers, elderly, divorced etc. in a pile and we are pretty much left to fend for ourselves. You see that clearly after several months. Now I live in the city that never sleeps and am a nightowl. I'm up and out at midnight roaming around, why not I can't sleep and everything here is open 24/7. I stopped going to that church several months ago, I was so discusted but they were adding a new addition and so one night about 12:20 AM I took a ride to go and get a sausage crousant at Jack In The Box and took a ride past the churchs huge parking area. I saw a couple of cars parked near a rear entranced and being the noisy (ex security)person I am, I drove up behind them, lights off and then turned on my brights, doors locked, hand on my cell phone to call 911 and low and behold, two heads popped up.....It was the head Minister and a woman I recognized as the wife of another Minister. I doubt they were praying in the position I caught them in. I immediately turned off my lights and drove away in silence. Shocked and yet somehow not surprised. I am friends with many many people most professing to be Christians and yet showing no mercy or compassion to anyone but themselves. I now worship my God alone at sunrise at the edge of the desert or under the stars on my back porch or wherever I happen to be when the feeling makes me want to talk to God. I do not nor will I ever trust man again. I am my own church and God dwells within me. If a person feels that, why do they need some building or some so called man of God to instill that in them? My Bible is my religions training now and I read it faithfully. Dianne, just believe and stay the good person you are and call yourself a Christian if you need to but I am a child of God and behave as one in all things and thats enough for me. Hopefully it's enough for him as well...

Thanks Chatty. Deeply appreciate it. Really.