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#154515 - 07/25/08 12:02 AM To Offer the Other Cheek?
Lola Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 3703
Loc: London UK
A most difficult thing to do.

Catholics believe that Jesus is really present in the Holy Eucharist, that the sacrifice of Calvary is repeated at every Mass, and that Jesus gives Himself to us in Holy Communion as food unto eternal life. We hear the words of the institution of the Holy Eucharist as said and done by Jesus. The priest in persona Christi and the consecration of the host at every Mass is an unbroken connection to the events of that Passover 2007 years ago: "Before He was given up to death, a death He freely accepted, He took the bread and gave You thanks. He broke the bread and gave it to His disciples and said: Take this all of you and eat it, This is My body which will be given up for you." (Mark 14:22-24; Matt 26:26-28; Luke 22:19-20; 1 Cor 11:23-25)

The Doctrine of Transubstantiation, the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, is held by Catholics as a mystery of faith which far exceeds the capacity of reason or logic. That being the case, this sacred dogma of the Catholic Faith is held with reverence and solemnity.

I ramble yet, words fail me. As a practising Catholic, theologian and apologist, one draws from a personal storm jar.

http://www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1465

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/the_great_desecration.php
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#154516 - 07/25/08 11:22 AM Re: To Offer the Other Cheek? [Re: Lola]
Anno Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 4434
Loc: Minneapolis Minnesota
Yes, Lola, it is difficult to turn the cheek when a person has been slapped so hard and needlessly. I know that you believe that everyone has the complete right to believe as they wish, but actions do speak louder and harder than words.

I am praying that the University quietly lets him go away.
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#154517 - 07/25/08 11:37 AM Re: To Offer the Other Cheek? [Re: Anno]
Eagle Heart Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 4876
Loc: Canada
Jesus didn't turn the other cheek when He cleared out the temple...yes, people have free will and the right to believe as they wish, but other people also have the right to establish boundaries that allow them to exercise their free will to believe what they believe. When two boundaries clash, it's tricky...But Jesus Himself was very emphatic about His boundaries when He cleared out the temple...John 2:13-15: "When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables."

There may well be times to turn the other cheek, and other times when it becomes necessary to clean out the temple.
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#154518 - 07/25/08 03:13 PM Re: To Offer the Other Cheek? [Re: Eagle Heart]
Lola Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 3703
Loc: London UK
I have been hand-wringing over this matter for the past 10 days until the desecration of the Holy Eucharist took place yesterday. And, one just reeled with helplessness. It was hoped and prayed for, that sensitivity towards what others hold sacred would be respected, Unfortunately, it had not turned out that way. During the time that this event at the University of Minnesota started to unfold, which followed as a matter of support for an earlier event where a university student in Florida had held the Holy Eucharist hostage and was found in breach of his university's code of conduct, the Catholic community in the UK was helpless because there was little we can do in terms of legal jurisdiction. We have only been informed today that the Holy Eucharist was reportedly obtained under false pretense at Mass from the Brompton Oratory in London, wrapped in condom and sent to Myers (who was openly soliciting the acquisition of the Eucharist) in the States. We now have the opportunity to deal with this matter head on under current legislation where we are allowed to prosecute hate crimes against religion.

There have been occasions in the past where individuals have desecrated the Holy Eucharist. Those have always been under a different agenda and I understand fully well what drove people to do it. But, those were never in the premeditated way that it has occurred now, where one holds the Holy Eucharist hostage for such a wicked, almost diabolical purpose. The conduct is akin to the taunts directed at Jesus at the foot of the cross: "If you were truly God, come down from the cross". How odd to even refer to the Holy Eucharist as "hostage". Many Catholics would wish to be more militant and I am struggling to find the justification for it, even against this conduct. But, many are now beginning to argue militancy and that such attitude protects against what blasphemes one's faith, in much the same way that the Islamic faith protects its Koran. And, because Myers also desecrated the Koran, one can only see trouble brewing from this saga.


Edited by Lola (07/25/08 04:26 PM)

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#154519 - 07/25/08 07:06 PM Re: To Offer the Other Cheek? [Re: Lola]
Ell Offline


Registered: 06/05/08
Posts: 26
I'd say try very hard not to give this guy the attention he obviously desperately craves. For some reason, there is this small crowd of college professors who are determined to seize the national stage by behaving outrageously. Yes, their actions are foul, but in the long run they amount to little more than a small child breaking something to get attention. A huge silence would be far colder to him than any protests, which will just feed his ego.

To put this in a larger context, there were times when good Christians had no trouble gassing millions of people or in forcing them to convert. Today such actions are more likely to be committed by Muslim fanatics. I'm not excusing any of it -- just trying to place it all within the big picture of history. For the professor? Well, if nothing is sacred certainly neither is he: what goes around comes around. Christians are always called on to try to live their faith to the utmost, and today is no different.

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#154520 - 07/25/08 10:34 PM Re: To Offer the Other Cheek? [Re: Ell]
Anno Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 4434
Loc: Minneapolis Minnesota
I thought this might bring a small bit of relief? A blog (name listed below) sent to the powers that be at the University of Minnesota, and received by alumni (me, included) today.

Friday, July 25, 2008
My response to Prof. Paul Z. Myers hateful acts against Catholics and Muslims

You may or may not have heard of atheist biology professor Paul Myers of the University of MN, Morris in recent weeks. He made headlines after requesting on his personal blog for stolen consecrated hosts to be sent to him so that he could desecrate them. Of course, many Catholics were outraged and Dr. Myers has gotten an earful, ranging from prayers for his soul to violent threats. Mark Shea offers a good discussion of the situation here.

Well, yesterday the man followed through on his twisted exercise in kindly showing the intolerant masses of superstitious idiots (a.k.a. anybody who believes in God) who's king of the universe. He desecrated a sacred host, defaced the Koran and tossed them in the garbage taking a picture to share on his blog. Somehow we're supposed to see now that that this little "cracker" has no power. Thanks man! Like I thought it would melt your eyeballs like the Nazis in Raiders of the Lost Ark or something!

Anyways, as a Catholic and a graduate of the University of Minnesota, I don't think this guy should go on lecturing and doing research. What PZ Myers has done is analogous to calling for people to disrupt services at a synagogue to steal the Torah and send it to him so that he could spray paint swastikas all over it. To Catholics, it's that bad of a sacrilege. Surely if a professor were to publicly call for such an anti-Semitic act he would be justly fired. The same should go for a hateful act done against Catholics.

Here is my letter I sent last night to all those people in the U of MN chain above Prof. Myers. If you feel so inclined, please write your own version and send it via the email addresses provided at the bottom (no threats, though!):


To President Robert Bruininks, Chancellor Jacqueline Johnson, Dr. Roland Guyotte and Dr. Michael Korth of the University of Minnesota and U of MN, Morris:

I am writing in regard to the recent actions taken by Prof. Paul Myers of the U of MN, Morris. As reported on his blog on July 24, 2008, he has taken pages from the Koran and consecrated hosts (presumably stolen from a Catholic Church), deliberately defaced them and publicly ridiculed in the most hateful manner those who hold these objects to be sacred symbols of their faith.

I am an alumnus of the University of MN Institute of Technology and currently teach high school physics in Plymouth, MN. I am also a Catholic who is deeply insulted and pained by these hateful acts of bigotry accomplished by Dr. Myers. I am ashamed that such a man is tarnishing the name of my alma mater. I will not donate to your esteemed institution unless and until Dr. Meyers is disciplined. I am also disinclined to recommend the science programs at UMN, Morris to our seniors. It seems to me that a man so filled with distain toward people of faith would be incapable of treating my students with respect.

To clarify, I do not think that Dr. Myers should be punished for his atheistic beliefs, but rather for his public incitement of theft and hatred toward people who believe in God. This despicable conduct reveals a man unworthy of our public trust to educate young minds who are interested in the pursuit of scientific knowledge.

Sincerely,
Mr. Dan Fisher
B.S. Physics, 2002
Univ. of MN, Institute of Technology


President Robert H. Bruininks, upres@umn.edu
Chancellor Jacqueline Johnson, grussing@morris.umn.edu
Dr. Roland Guyotte, Interim Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs and Dean, petersdk@morris.umn.edu
Dr. Michael Korth, Chair of the Division of Science & Mathematics, korthms@morris.umn.edu
Professor Paul Zachary Myers, myersp@morris.umn.edu
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#154521 - 07/26/08 12:42 AM Re: To Offer the Other Cheek? [Re: Anno]
Lola Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 3703
Loc: London UK
Even in the context of the socio-political period of the Holocaust and the Inquisitions (of which Spain's was only one chapter of), I cannot be as charitable as you to call the perpetrators of the persecutions of that era as Christians, Ell. And, I am more inclined to refer to Christian conduct such as Maximillian Kolbe's and the Christian martyrs who were found heretics for defending the Moors and Jews.

Thanks, Anno. The UM-Morris Chancellor Jacqueline Johnson released a statement today which pretty much clarified the University's position: "...behaviors that discriminate against or harass individuals or groups on the basis of their religious beliefs are reprehensible...". At the same time, however, she stated that the university: "...affirms the freedom of a faculty member to speak or write as a public citizen without institutional discipline or restraint." Which does not really mean anything because, in effect, whilst admitting that Prof Myers has breached the Code of Conduct, he is allowed licence to proceed with impunity under the pretext of free speech.

Obviously, there is an anti-Catholic agenda at UM. One only has to go by previous record on other issues taken up with them independent of this matter. And actions taken are immensely different to that of University of Central Florida. As it has been mentioned, it is unlikely that they would take the same stance if Afro-Americans were treated to a burning of the cross and the Jewish community were subjected to a display of swastikas. By law, the Catholic community warrants the same protection.
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#154522 - 07/26/08 12:13 PM Re: To Offer the Other Cheek? [Re: Lola]
Anno Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/05
Posts: 4434
Loc: Minneapolis Minnesota
Quote:

Obviously, there is an anti-Catholic agenda at UM.




I must admit that you could be correct. I am not sure I understand why this would be true, but, sadly, it appears there is truth in this statement.
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#154524 - 07/26/08 06:12 PM Re: To Offer the Other Cheek? [Re: ]
Lola Offline
Member

Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 3703
Loc: London UK
A sad state of affairs for an educational institution, Anno.
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#154525 - 07/27/08 03:24 AM Re: To Offer the Other Cheek? [Re: Lola]
Saundra Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 1796
Loc: Daytona Beach, Florida
All of my cheecks (top and bottom) have been used up. I don't believe I can turn another again. But I might. There's always another sitation arising and I still have free will.
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Got Teeth? A Survivor's Guide
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