Back to current events…I have a question for your ladies.

I have a strict Catholic upbringing, which I don't practice any more. I still believe, but I'm totally disappointed in the church as a system itself.

Somewhere in our newspaper, a tiny article about priests in U.S.A. was printed. It said the priests were caught illegally collecting money (in the millions) for their own private purposes, (business investments and women). So whoopee, another scandal is born amongst the holy ones.

People from other congregations and religions must be shaking their heads in disbelief at this "holier than though" Catholic Institution. I've personally never heard of any scandals in the Baptist or Protestant churches. Maybe there is some money manipulating, by some preachers, I don't really know, but still they don't have the kind of money the Catholic Church reigns over.

In Germany the Catholic Church and politics are interwoven. (Can you believe that?) So I guess the Church was able to suppress further articles about this scandal here. Can anyone fill me in on this?

Hi, Hannelore: I am not aware of the article you have mentioned although I would undoubtedly come across it now.

There was the Jim and Tammy Baker scandal 20 years ago, amongst a few outside the Catholic Church. Things of the sort that happens in the Catholic Church do take place over the other side of the fence. The Roman Catholics do not have exclusive handle on grave misdemeanors. Media just gives it a slant to make it appear that we do. I, too, like many, become frustrated with the many scandals that have arisen from conducts of the religious, Catholics or otherwise. The offences committed by some are unjustifiable and inexcusable. But it remains for these offences to be conducts of some and not a reflection on the many who serve God and others well in fulfillment of their vocations. The Catholic Church, alongside propagation of faith, is just as much as an administrative system akin to any agency with governmental or quasi governmental personalities and functions. Along the line, personnel would offend. No ship is administratively tight to guarantee performance and observance of rules. The fallibility of people is what causes the scandals and the shame that it brings. Especially so, when it is committed by those who profess high standards of moral and spiritual codes. But, we can only attribute that to, once again, human fallibility. How can the Catholic Church be rid of these scandals? I doubt if it'll ever as individuals are born with the God-given free will to do right or wrong in both lay and religious status. But, what I have faith is in the promise that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Afterall, Iscariot also dealt with 30 pcs of silver and he did not go very far with that.

"So I guess the Church was able to suppress further articles about this scandal here. Can anyone fill me in on this?"

On the above, it is because conduct of the clergy remains within the jurisdiction of the local Diocese and will be dealt with accordingly as a Diocesan matter. The Church often does not disclose these matters when in sub judice, i.e. under investigation or when proceedings in civil courts have been initiated.

Hey good to chat with my "same time zone" buddy.
Your right, Lola. The church is an institution made up of all kinds of people. I believe that should be recognized to the point that criminal priests will be treated like any other civilian that commit the same crime.
What gives them the right to be first investigated by the Church? The Catholic Church often suppresses the embarrassing crimes so long…till it blows over. People begin to forget, and I for one, have never heard of any of these child molesters sitting in prison. Maybe I've missed that…most likely it was printed with invisible ink.

Yep. Seems that all are still in bed while the two of us are already looking forward to lunch!

The internal investigations stem from normal practice in all organizations and follow the grievance procedure protocol. Where it differs significantly now is that the Church has opened up to external courts which is a really good thing. A far cry from before. It took some time to get to that point but at least it got there. The way I look at it is that our Catholic tradition of unconditional forgiveness and second chances is easily taken advantaged of where rehabs of these offenders within the Church, especially of the sexual nature, does not fall in line with stricter and more appropriate secular methods. There was a time when a religious vocation was a safe choice for many in terms of a secured life and not really spiritually tapped to serve a vow. I find that the profiles of these offenders have those root reasons. They were simply not meant for the religious vocation and many come from the intake prior to Vatican Council II where no further questions or strict character evaluations were imposed. A mere expression of a willingness to train for a religious life was deemed enough.

I am on the other side of the debate on celibacy, Hannelore because a married clergy can commit the same offence just as much. It does happen in other religious organizations with married clergies. So, I don't think a married state would suffice to rope back in temptations. I believe a stricter criteria in discernment to vocation of Holy Orders will need to be rigidly observed more than anything.

Gosh about Augsberg. I, too, come across horrid stories of the Church's past but thankful that we have moved on from that and hopefully, painful events of the sort that the Church is experiencing now will soon resolve and justice found for those who were hurt in the process.

Back from lunch:

Yes, Lola, we can agree on that...hopefully these events will be resolved soon. It has been fun debating with you.
Yeah, for freedom of speech!

Is the sun shining for you today? It's a beautiful, sunny and snowy day here.

Okay, my turn to go for eats! Yep, sun is shining but a cold day. No snow yet and until I have bought my boots I shall wish it for another day.

Pats on the back, Hannelore. A good exchange indeed on very sensitive issues.

Don't forget that the Catholic Church has more members and more clergy than all the other Christian denominations combined. I think it stand to reason that it's going to seem like there are more scandals, etc., becuase of the sheer numbers.