Ah, faith...one of my favorite topics. I appreciate the kindess and respect everyone is showing one another. It's nice to have a place where so many different beliefs are shared.

I've shared some of this in the forums in the past, but will repeat for the sake of those who may not have read all the posts.

I was raised Catholic. I went to 13 years of Catholic school with the nuns, priests, Catholic morals and values for which I am most grateful. I'm aware of some of the funky stuff that went on through the years, but I've chosen to focus on all the good that resulted from my Catholic upbringing.

Even though I went to church almost every Sunday as a child, I never accepted the endless, undying love God had for me. I didn't get it. I had inhereited my parent's beliefs, but hadn't accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior.

As adults, my husband and I experienced several heartbreaking events. It was then that we realized we weren't in charge of this life and we sought help from a minister who told us about having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It was then that we chose to follow him and picked a denomination and church that both of us liked. We chose to join the Presbyterain church.

Now we find that the Presbyterian church has it's own set of issues.

Honestly, no church is perfect because all churches are hospitals for sinners. None are museums for saints because all of us have free will and choose to please ourselves often before pleasing God.

I have to say that I have learned so much about faith, families, relationships, love, forgiveness, joy, peace, prayer, etc. simply by being in a church community and becoming involved.

We have found tremendous love and support from our church family during good times and bad, and hopefully, we have been there for members of our church family as well.

What we need to realize is that we are human and we sometimes get too wrapped up with doctrine, rules, and regulations, instead of just loving the Lord our God with all our hearts, souls, and minds, and loving our neighbors as ourselves.

Hi Lola, I think you're right about how the association with people can influence you. Although the Pope is German, the churches are pretty empty here. In fact, some churches have been sold, and rebuilt into restaurants and even discothèques. I believe it has something to do with the way they hold Mass here. It's still in Latin and very medieval. The heavy sad organ music makes you want to cry instead of rejoice life. It just isn't something you want to get up in the morning for.

Dear Dotsie, for the first time since I've been dealing with this issue, I've paused. What you said made a lot of sense. I printed it out, and put it under my see through desk blotter. I got to read it a few times.

Especially this sentence got me thinking.

Quote:

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I have to say that I have learned so much about faith, families, relationships, love, forgiveness, joy, peace, prayer, etc. simply by being in a church community and becoming involved.

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Thank you for sharing. Hannelore

Hannelore, another part of being in a faith community is intergenerational relationships. I have learned so much from the elderly who have lived through so many of the stages that I've been through. They are so wise and willing to share guidance and faith.

I also have appreciated the families who have always been just a few years older than us because I've watched them go through the parenting of little ones, middle school, high school and college years with their children. I've learned so much by their example.

Last week, I sat behind a woman and her eighth grade daughter. Mom couldn't keep her arm off her daughter. She kept wrapping it around her shoulder, then rubbing her back. It took me back to the days of wrapping my arms around my kids when we worshipped together. The memories were heartwarming since my kids are all in college now.

Not one of the families in our church is without some kind of issue - some large, some small. However, we understand that God is not always fair, but He always promises to walk with us, love us, and support us regardless of what we are going through...just like we have promised our own children the same.

I never mean to sound preachy. I'm only sharing what has worked for me.

Perhaps this is a good place to sahre this poem by Maya Angelou:

Christians - By Maya Angelou

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I'm not shouting "I'm clean livin'."

I'm whispering "I was lost,

Now I'm found and forgiven."

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I don't speak of this with pride.

I'm confessing that I stumble

and need Christ to be my guide.

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I'm not trying to be strong.

I'm professing that I'm weak

And need His strength to carry on.

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I'm not bragging of success.

I'm admitting I have failed

And need God to clean my mess.

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I'm not claiming to be perfect,

My flaws are far too visible

But, God believes I am worth it.

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I still feel the sting of pain.

I have my share of heartaches

So I call upon His name.

When I say... "I am a Christian"

I'm not holier than thou,

I'm just a simple sinner

Who received God's good grace, somehow!

Hi, Hannelore: There is a movement which seeks out old "unused" churches for purchase to prevent it from being turned into discos, restaurants, residences and the like. Whilst I understand their reasons for it, I wonder about the economics of conservation, unless of course if the Church is of some historical significance. There are old churches in the UK as well which have been beautifully turned into single and multi-family homes. Quite popular really and those who have bought into these are quite happy to live in it and speak of some sense of its old worth rubbing off into their lifestyle. Although all agree that heating costs can be very expensive! There was an old church in NYC which was turned into a disco at the time we were still living in Manhattan. If I remember correctly it was called Lighthouse and the DJ's booth was where the altar used to be. I balked at that time at the concept but then again, after procedures are taken by the Church to strip buildings of former consecrated status, then the structure itself continues to exist for what it is. Brick and mortar. Sad and painful endings to sanctuaries but, I suppose, these are part and parcel of the changes and we will definitely come across more of these as congregations in the West dwindle which would make many more church buildings redundant. In other parts of the world, its quite the opposite, they cannot build enough Churches to contain the swelling congregations.

How odd that Tridentine Mass is still the norm where you are but I suppose there must a reason and purpose to it. The only Latin Mass I get to attend is in Rome and for the most part, the Mass leaves me feeling nostalgic more than participatory. Whilst I understand the Order of the Mass, nothing surpasses the connection to it when it is spoken in the vernacular I can understand. And I understand why it is not well attended. And I agree with you, the music can be dreary for some. It has often been my wish that at Mass, we Catholics could have more vibrant music and singing as the Baptists, Methodists etc. We have not quite gotten there yet.

That's an interesting theory about the dreaming, Anne. I definitely agree, I believe we all have a soul and are spiritual beings.
Do you know the four golden rules on being a good hostess at a party? Don't discuss politics, religion, children, and finances. I think we are beyond a superficial cocktail party, which makes this site so special.

Dotsie, thanks for sharing your experiences. What a great poem by Maya. Thanks for posting it!

Hi, Anne: It is indeed an uplifting experience to share our differences and, in the process, staggeringly wonderful to discover only oneness than divisiveness with the spirituality of those who have shared. And within the many forms of its expressions, spirituality has shown to transcend borders beyond doctrines and the four walls of the churches where some choose to worship or are members of. As Dotsie has mentioned, Churches are imperfect. As Maya Angelou implies, it is not about spiritual upmanship. But it was something that Lynnie touched upon that gave me a lot to think about and reflect on as a result of my own personal experience: spirituality is one with all God has created.

When Mom died, I thought of how a person I had always looked up to, and was in all aspects larger than life for me,would now be reduced to dust. Even from the depths of my own faith, I found it very difficult to cope with the sadness of losing a parent once again. Dad had only just passed away a few years before but Mom was around and we supported each other in our loss. She did more of that than I could ever have done for her. When Mom's time came, I had to experience the all too soul-wrenching sadness once again. Made sadder still, for it was the demise of my greatest guardian and spiritual counsellor which meant that I had to face up to loss on my own. As my sisters and I prayed in gratitude for a wonderful mother God gave us, I looked at all the flowers and the dirt in the pots in which they came. I realised then that my mother's body, which when alive only bore significance to those who knew her, would soon be one with all the ashes and the earth of this world.

I have never gotten over the loss of my Mom. And I miss her more and more as I grow older and pass into grandmotherhood, the joyful experience of which I always wish for the opportunity to have shared with her. But, from the few words that Lynnie had shared, it has now given more clarity to bare soul searching outside the catechism one was taught and be able to touch spirituality on a level which I have not given possibilities to consider that Mom, even in death, continues to be part of God's creation. My Mom's physical presence had simply gone on a greater journey and would swirl with time. The soil of the earth on which I stand will always share its humble status to the pedigree as that of my Mom's. And in that state of being, I will always find a refection of her amongst the most natural of all things and of God's creation.

And Lynnie, once again, I am glad you did not hesitate to post. Many thanks for sharing.

I'm a "cradle" Catholic, who has seen the church through the highs and lows since the early 1950s. I usually attend church on the holidays and say grace before meals. That about sums up my formal profession of faith until recently....My Baptist-raised husband did not believe in organized religion, but recently became baptized into the Catholic Church, where we were recently re-wedded. Now I am his sponsor as he prepares to become a full-fledged Catholic on Easter 2007.

What amazes me is that I am now finding out many of the priests, deacons, and congregation members are rather recent converts and formerly from other religions. Such wonderful people, and with so many perspectives on worshipping God.

I thought I would be "teaching" my husband about the faith I was born into, and instead, he and the Catholic priests (from other countries, and some formerly of other faiths) are teaching ME about real faith & spirituality.

Catholic, when spelled with a small "c," means "universal." I see the practical application of that principle more and more now, and it means so much....

Josie, that's interesting about finding out that many priests are recent converts from other religions. That must be very intense bonding, to sponsor your husband's change to the Catholic Church. I can imagine that it strengthens your own faith.

Lola, I can feel and understand you so well. I'm very attached to my mother too. I love her outlook on life. I've never ever met anyone as optimistic and positive thinking as she is. When with her, it's as if someone just opened a door to let a fresh breeze flow into my soul. Maybe I feel this so intensely because my husband isn't that way. He can be a very negative person. I often have a hard time coping with that. When I can't take it any more I escape to my Mom. God help me when she isn't here anymore (she's 85).
There are so many lonely childless old women in homes. I think when my Mom passes on, I will "adopt" a few of these people and visit them on a regular basis. I think that will be the only way I can cope with the loss. Have you ever thought of doing something like that, Lola?

I think I know which words you meant, that Lynne posted: "You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars." I loved that line.

Oh, yes Hannelore. I have developed close and warm relationships with many elderly folks. We have practically adopted each other.