Anne, in response to your question re: Ten Commandments, I found this paragraph in my own book. It pertains to when I was on a spiritual journey. It's just interesting how we both thought about this. ****A basic premise of religion is the belief in a Higher Power. The principles of religion, such as The Golden Rule or The Ten Commandments serve to instill peace and love. There is a difference between religion and spirituality. With spirituality, humans attain an awareness that acknowledges the soul because we are intrinsically spiritual beings in human form.”****

Hannelore, you wrote: //I know married clergy men can have unnatural sexual tendencies as well ( I'm talking about pedolphiles here), but I wonder if these priests (and I'm sure they are in the minority), who may have been "normal" when they entered the clergy, developed these tendencies because those young children were there and are manipulative.// I hope I misunderstood you. It sounds like you are saying that the CHILDREN are manipulative. As an expert on Child Sexual Abuse, I have to make it clear to everyone that in no way, shape, or form is a child responsible for the abuse. Children cannot and do not manipulate themselves into CSA. The abuser is totally responsible and accountable.

To prove that your point is completely accurate Lynnie, the experts (head doctors) treating these pedofiles say that they nearly 'ALL' give the same exuse, "the child seduced them"!!! Talk about living in fantasyland ...

Lynne, I thought that was clear. Of course I meant that priests can manipulate children. I've never heard of children sexually manipulating an adult.

Hi Hannelore, thanks for responding and clarifying. And, I can't help but go off on a lecture re: CSA because it's my mission. But Chatty is right: offenders often blame the victim. My father used to pose me in seductive ways for pictures, then claim I was too sexy for my own good. I was only 3, 4, 5! What a set up for future abuse from him. Oh, and then he would take me to church, the Catholic church. Religion was very confusing for me.

Lynne, being able to transform your abused child hood into a positive and fighting mission is commendable and more than honorable. I admire you for setting out on such a mission. I can relate with your statement: "Religion was very confusing for me." The contradictory messages we receive from the church and some church-going people (like your father) confuse me as well.

I just want to add that I hope I haven't offended anyone on this forum with my thoughts.

I often envy how so many of you are so sure, as far as your religion is concerned. I'm just wondering if you ladies were always so devote, our did you ever have doubts along your life's paths as well? My Mom is a strict Catholic. I honestly wish I were that way. I think a church, that you completely believe in must be like a soft cushion, always there to catch you when you fall.

Quote:

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"My church is inside of me, and I talk with God all the time, living my life in a kind and giving way."
The way you said that, klmr13, touched my heart.

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Hannelore

Hi MustangGal, just want to let you know I've been trying to find some information on the tunnel scandal in Augsburg. No luck. Then I asked the German Yahoo. I got three answers so far, all confirming my story. Two said that the scandal was immediately suppressed by the Catholic Church, so I guess that explains why I can't find anything on line. That's power for you.
Maybe you can find more information about the "foundings" in Denver, Co., which Lynnie had posted.
Hannelore

Hannelore, thank you for your kind words.
I used to feel that I didn't "belong", because for most of my life I wasn't part of a church family. But then I read something that sounds funny, but is true..."Going to church doesn't make you a good person any more than being in a garage makes you a car!"
Now I need to make it clear that I know there are many, many good people who do attend church regularly - My intention is not to hurt anyone's feelings!

But I think as I have gotten older I realized that it was much more important for me to have an ongoing "talking relationship" with God than to be inside a church building once a week. That, and just (as I said before) following the Golden Rule. And now I feel very peaceful about my spirituality.

"I often envy how so many of you are so sure, as far as your religion is concerned. I'm just wondering if you ladies were always so devote, our did you ever have doubts along your life's paths as well?"

Hi, Hannelore: I think, all in all, the essence of faith and spirituality will depend on individual circumstances and expressions. Some will come to it from the cradle, others will come into it later on in life by association with people and events. In my case, the foundations of faith was deeply set from childhood with both my parents and the nuns at convent boarding school working alongside each other with cathechism. As I grew up, left boarding school and became exposed to more temporal living and issues, questions have arisen as to where life "outside the walls" ran in partnership with spirituality. Essentially, it became a question of: "where do I find God amidst all of this?" I questioned issues of segregations in the US, the war in Vietnam, assassination of the Kennedys and Martin Luther King, famine etc. Much closer to home were early deaths of people I knew and loved. One could only approach all those issues from a perspective of faith based on what was previously taught within the context of Catholic theology. It was something to fall back on time and time again as one grew older and faced greater challenges in life. When Mom was alive, she encouraged me to continuously study and understand the disciplines, doctrines and dogmas to avert any crisis of faith in the Church. Have I ever had any doubts along the way? Sometimes, I do. But not in the manner with which one would question whether God exists or whether He loves me. Often the questions center on issues wherein I lack deeper theological thoughts.

KLMR, I belonged to a church family from birth. Most of our family events revolved around the church calendar. I grew up near Rosetta, PA which is an old traditional Roman Catholic town. Anyway, I never felt like I belonged to my own family or to the church. I don't think having a church family guarantees a feeling of belonging. What is guaranteed is that as children of God, we belong. I am reminded of my favorite poem, the Desiradata: You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars.