Dianne, I was very angry, and I had something to be angry about, as does your daughter. I had a contradictory personality: one minute I would be up and off the wall, the next I would be down and in the dumps. As a teen, I alternated between acts of rebellion like smoking pot with friends or isolated withdrawal alone in my room. Some people would perceive me as being nice and sweet, and take advantage of that. At the time, my vulnerabilities were so obvious it was easy to be taken advantage of. But I thought I was wearing a hard shell because I had a wall around my heart. Other people would not know how to speak to me because no one could predict how I would react. Some people walked on egg shells around me. Only intense counseling and constant introspection and recommended reading and a spiritual transformation changed my personality. I am almost back to the sweet characteristics I had BEFORE the abuse. I say almost because I still have trouble trusting others, and trusting enough to believe in my own self. I am very insecure. But, instead of acting out those insecurities in passive-aggressive ways, I am better able to say that I don't understand something, or that I feel under confident. Instead of being taken advantage of, people are better able to read the genuine me, and be supportive. I say this because your daughter is not showing her genuine needs; she is covering up her vulnerabilities with anger. "No nicer than the rest of us." Hmmm, I wonder why you can't compliment someone in your lives without a harsh feedback from her. I remember when my mother was complimenting Kathie Lee Gifford to me. My mom just gushed all over KL because, Mom thought, KL "had such strong values and loved her Daddy." I took that very personally because my non-loving daddy had abused me and so my values were askew (at the time.) Everything was askew. So if someone complimented someone else, I thought it was really a slam against me. So I wonder if YD is thinking that by you complimenting someone else you are really undermining her. YOU don't see it that way, but one with a history of being sexually abused by someone she trusted has everything "mangled" in her head (Eagle's good word for it.) As for suicide, those who have been sexually assaulted are 13 times more likely to attempt suicide than those who have not been assaulted. That's huge. It might as well be 100 times. The best predictor of suicide is previous attempts. It's not hard for one to decide when enough is enough. It's not always true that God doesn't give us more than we can handle. Some things like sexual abuse are just too much to handle. It's not hard to decide that death would be better than the emotional pain. Also, with SA there is a lot of unresolved grief: losing trust, losing childhood, etc. So she is languishing in a long grieving process. YD needs to read/talk about this subject, not hide from it. Like I said, she says she forgives and forgets, but her actions speak louder. Dianne, keep talking about this here or wherever you feel support. It's not over yet. Do you feel like she is abusing you with her anger? Does she say she does not hold anything against you (for not knowing) yet she treats you with anger? Suicidal people hit rock bottom and don't know how to get up. I guess I was lucky because a counselor intervened (well, God intervened and sent an angel counselor to me) and she showed me how to get up after suicide. I needed her as a life line. Oh, Dianne, you can't be a life line for her. She needs an objective helper. Phew. That's all for now. Love and Light, Lynn

Well said, Lynnie. Your wisdom is so crucial in this kind of discussion. Suicide thinking is VERY MUCH "mangled" thinking. Suicidal people don't chose to want to want to die...the despair, depression, agony and grief just suck a person down into that quicksand of mangled thinking and there is often no escape without outside intervention. It took an epiphany of love for me to crawl out of that hellhole. Even then, though, the mangled thinking haunts like the mythical sirens, relentless and convincing, voices which can only be silenced by equally relentless love and willpower, which most despairing depressed people simply cannot muster - without outside help.

Oh that it would be that simple to just will oneself to want to live. The thing to remember is that depression (including the manifestations of suicidal thinking) is a bona fide illness. The treatments are not as straight-forward or target-oriented as cancer treatments, or treatments for any other bona fide illness. There's a lot of misdiagnosis, a lot of stigma, a lot of impatience and a lot of "trial and error" treatment attempts standing in the way of a lot of depressed people getting the help they desperately need.

As bystanders to loved ones going through depression (and especially those stuck in suicidal thinking), the best thing we can do is help them to get the help they need and then continue to pour that love into their lives...and do pray for divine intervention. Even if it seems they don't want, hear, receive or see it, love and light are still the best guides out of that darkness, especially while they walk that long and frustrating road trying to find the right combo of therapy and meds they so desperately need.

Believe me, most suidical people WANT to want to live, they just can't get there by themselves.

Thanks ladies. This is really, truly helping me.

She does seem angry with me but also with both of her brothers too. Maybe it's a male thing. Before we put her into rehab, my nights were spent being verbally abused by her until I tore into her one night. The next morning she apologized but I told her it had happened for the last time. I had the honor of hearing every single thing I had done wrong as a mother. I finally pointed out what she had done wrong as a daughter like almost causing me to lose my business. That's a long story in itself.

When she was drinking, she would get up in the middle of the night and take Tylenol PM without knowing it. It wasn't until the next morning when she'd vomit and see the remains of the little blue pills in the toilet that she knew she had taken them. She felt bad about it because if she had died, I would always think she had killed herself when she hadn't meant to. So, she does think of me sometimes.

I've told her, "If you are angry with me over something, spill it now and let's get it out in the open!" but she says she isn't. I must just be her beating post or I should say, I used to be.

I don't enjoy being around my own daughter because of the moods. If she wasn't my child, I wouldn't even have anything to do with her. That sounds so awful but it's true.

Eagle, thanks for the enlightenment you articulated so well. Dianne, I don't have children but I think a parent can love child without necessarily liking them.

Dianne, Dr. Keith Ablow had a show on re: Anger as an illness. If you want to know more about this, google for his show. He said anger is treatable, but the person has to be willing to be treated. I would tell you more but I did not see the show.

Dianne, I hope U R still reading this thread. I was thinking today about this topic while I was stuck in traffic, doing a 45 minute detour in a 3 mile radius. What a mess! Colorado Springs is like Boston with "the big dig" in freeway reconstruction. The best city of its size in America is also the most congested city in America (Co springs.) Anyway, my thought was wondering how one can love someone else through their anger. Anger is fear, and can one love another through their fears. "It saddens me beyond my tears that love is lost within the fears." Your daughter is losing her ability to love because she is in fear, and the fear is manifested at anger. That anger is abusive to her own self and others. My mother did not love me through my anger. Her love was conditional on her behavior. I should say that she loved me, but her interaction with me was contigent upon whether or not I would exhibit the actions of the model child she wanted, but couldn't have. To this day, I feel like she loves me not because of what I achieved, but because of what I achieved to make her look and feel good. I wished she had loved me through the anger. I understand that every interaction between parents and children is different, and I never had any. But I can be objective enough to have empathy for both you and her. I wish and hope your daughter will see how she is responsible for changing her attitude from anger to love.

She called me today and was up and happy. I just never know what to expect. She's always had a lot of female problems and her periods are awful and so is her PMS. She will sometimes have three periods a month. Her doctor has been working with her on this. She gets really moody and nasty during PMS.

This was the same daughter I wrote about whose boyfriend held her hostage in the house all night. She's had more than her share of bad things happen.

My mother competed with me. It was so strange.

Dianne, might your daughter have PMS syndrome? Combining physical condition and anger (emotion) together is very much an impact on a person.

I don't know, Mustang. Never heard of it. I should look it up online. The dr. stopped her periods for a while but she said she couldn't afford the meds or dr. anymore and I don't feel right about stepping in, once again, to pay for it.

Dianne
Is there someway to reinforce her up days and help her see how much more beneficial they are for her? It's tough, having so many issues with PMS and then add in all the anger she has towards her past traumas. Could it perhaps be a sort of post traumatic syndrome?