Kate, I think self-preservation should be at the top of your list. You have to be strong and in control for your other son. It would be awful if he were to be influenced in a bad way.
I think I'd do everything to try to prevent my second son from using drugs, and that probably means to distance your small family from your older son. My heart goes out to you. It must be terribly difficult.

Thanks, I asked my son to leave for a few days. I suggested his fathers. He agreed although reluctantly. I told him in order to come back he must have treatment set up by Monday at the latest. That requires him to go down to the drug and alcohol office. They are the only place that will give him a referral. Without this referral the treatment centre won't take him. He has been putting this off but agreed to go on Monday morning. When he has the paperwork he can come back until he gets called in. They put them on a waiting list. He can only stay until the 28th of November and he knows this. He should get called within 7 days at the latest. I know his visit at his fathers will be a disaster and he probably won't end up staying there but at least he may realize how much I do for him. He told me alot of what I read on his msn was joking around. He said he does plan to have some drinks tonight as it is his birthday party with his friends. If all goes well he will be in treatment on his birthday (Nov 30) We did have a good talk at least and he told me that I don't understand how hard it is for him. He says he is really tempted but has not done much. Told me he smoked a joint at his friends but that is it. He says because he is going to treatment he wants to have a good time at his party which will include drinking. He tells me that he is almost 22 and that is what 22 year old guys do. Says I just don't understand how hard it is for him. I told him I do understand but that he is an unhealthy 22 year old with addictions and he should not be drinking or smoking pot. I think he realizes this but just doesn't want to face up to it. He has been addicted to drugs and alcohol since age 15. Crack cocaine mainly. I know it must be really hard for him to have all this freedom now especially since he did not get any counseling in jail. Anyway the good thing is he took my request to go to his Dad's and agreed to leave. This is very unlike him. In the past he would yells and scream and break things and refuse to leave basically holding us hostage. I had to call the police to remove him a few times and often the neighbors would beat me to it. He said he is trying his best. So we will see how it goes next week.
The one thing I did learn when dealing with this situation is if you give them a time out, basically say you have to leave for a few days, they seem to go along with this and then behave better at least for a while. If you kick them out with no chance of returning, they dig their heels in and refuse and then it gets messy. I wish I knew this years ago as I think it would have helped. In the end though you can only give them so many changes and then you just have to shut the door and don't let them back until they have been clean for at least a year.
Thanks for your concern.
Kate

Sometimes I believe those whose children turn out just right, no problems to speak of, forget how lucky they really are. Reading posts like these bring that 'luck' to the forefront. It doesn't matter during those times of trouble what kind of parenting was done; but I truly believe that in the long run, our good parenting will surface eventually. At least I hope so!

I hope so too! I have to think that we could be the best parents in the world sometimes and all it takes is our children hooking up with a bad crowd or even just one wrong friend. Peer pressure is way harder these days than it was 30 years ago. I sometimes wonder what my grandchildren (when I have them) will have to deal with in this world.

kate, I think one of the hardest things for him right now is picking up with his old buddies. How can he put himself back in that social setting and not expect to pick up old habits?

I know a person who kicked a Cocaine addiciton by picking up and leaving town. Environment has so much to do with it.

I pray he gets treatment beginning Monday and that he makes a new set of friends that are drug free that he can hang out with when rehab is over.

Yes, I do too. I just found out that he did not stay with his Dad last night. He called my house and I have caller ID and he was calling from his friends. They live at a crack house. He is doing what I asked though and staying away from my house. Knowing the history with his Dad the only other place to go is to his old friends. He thinks he can handle it and just do a small amount of drugs. We all know that this is a recipe for disaster. All I can do is stay strong on the home front and hope he gets to treatment soon. We are just waiting for the call as he is on a waiting list. Hopefully by Friday he will be gone, but, there are no guarantees. The list three times he went to treatment he only lasted a week. I hope this time is more successful. I'm praying for that outcome, but, it is totally up to him.
Kate

Kate, you are so right. It is totally up to him. Come here if you feel weakened and we will give you strength to stand your ground.

Kate, you're not alone. My son may as well be in prison, as he has been out of my life since he began using cocaine some 12 years ago. I have spent many sleepless nights searching my soul and wondering if it was in some way my fault, but I know it wasn't whenever I see my older son. We do the best we can as parents raising our children but there comes a time when their 'free will' takes over and we are little more than spectators in the lives they chose for themselves. Hang tough, I have it takes time, hope and plenty of prayer.

Thanks Chatty,
I'm sorry about your son. We go on but it's painful all the same.
I just called mine at home and he is still there, just getting up at 2pm. He is supposed to go get a referral for treatment but is not doing this. Until this is done the treatment centre won't give him a bed. He is procrastinating and I will have no choice but to ask him to leave again. Of course he is really mad that I am asking him to go get this set up. Says to stop nagging him. I just told him I'm not nagging him I'm just reminding him to do what he said he is going to do. He is always angry with me. So is my Mom. I feel so depressed this week. Since my Mom found out about my boyfriend and said all those nasty things about him, I felt really down. Now my son doesn't seem to be going through with his plans. Last night we had a birthday party for him and he didn't even show up. When I gave him his gifts later, he didn't even said thank you. It's one of those weeks and I just can't seem to snap out of my slump. I'm usually a very positive person but my Mom and my son are really draining me. I fantasize about jumping on a plane and going somewhere, anywhere just to get away from them. If I didn't have my two other children I probably would.
Kate

Kate, I don't blame you for your fantasy. It's probably a healthy one at this point. I recommend doing something nice for yourself. Maybe you can't hop on a plane, but can you meet a friend for lunch, go to a funny movie, escape with a good book, take a bubble bath, go to a religious ceremony? Ladies, waht else could Kate do to help herself. I want her to have a joyous Thanksgiving.