Dianne,

I had nightmares after reading your book...it was that real to me. I appreciate your willingness to share your pain and your gain with all of us. As I mentioned to you by e-mail, I used your book and an article you sent me in preparing for a program I did for Nurses and Social Workers on DV.

Your perspective added a lot of depth to the presentation. Thank You.

One thing that I've noticed in interacting with victims and also the shelter workers, etc. is the deep anger towards and name calling of the abusers, even years later. While I am very understanding of the emotional pain that was inflicted upon these women and that the workers see on a daily basis...it just seems that staying in the place of such intense anger can't be healthy.

How do you feel about this?

Thanks Chatty.

Now, this may sound strange but I've found it to be the truth. The woman who says, well, if it was me, I'd never stay or I would do this or that if he ever hit me, is the very woman who would stay if she was abused.

Most women would be horrified to hear about the abuse and say, oh dear. The woman who has spent a long time thinking about what she would do is thinking along these lines way too much. It's like if you don't smoke, would you think about what happened if you did? Why would it be a thought?

Jane, anger keeps us attached to the abuser on an emotional level. In a way, we're still involved with them without them ever knowing it. We've left physically but remain stuck with them on another level, and it isn't a good one.

I believe this happens when the victim has never had the chance to confront him. She doesn't know how or where to vent her feelings of anger and pain and they stay trapped in her spirit. Not that venting would change the abuser but it might give her a chance to start healing. She lost her voice as an expression of how he made her feel.

But, these women need to know that we can forgive from a distance. I don't mean that the abuse is right in any form but to forgive releases her from the anger. It's a deeper understanding. And, a lot of their anger is really directed at themselves for tolerating so much and they haven't directed it toward the right area.

I forgave my abuser in my heart because I knew he was a very sick man and to hate him only hurt me and you just can't heal with animosity in your heart. It would stop my life from being full and rich and he certainly wasn't worth that!

This is why I feel therapy or a support group is so important to women who have left abusers. They need to change the focus from him to what they will now do with their lives of freedom.

Dianne, I like that: acceptance is the opposite of shame. Yes, accepting all of yourself, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Chatty, thanks for mentioning my story. Jane, are you a social worker? I have a degree in social work. Ah, forgiveness. Wow, what a burden it is to carry around that hate. I for one am glad to be free of hate and anger. Dianne, that is so true that people bond over their weakness versus supporting each other with empowerment. Carolyn Myss wrote a book called "Why People Don't Heal" and bonding over ailments was one reason. On the other hand, therapy and support groups is a way to achieve empowerment while bonding. The scene that gave me chills was the boat scene, and being left on the beach, and your son and a dog. I could visualize the whole scenario, and it made my heart race. Oh, and one of the descriptions of your body in pain with bruises on your abdomen and thighs made me hurt to envision this. Plus the DQ. How do you feel when you pass a DQ? Neutral?

I have been reading this thread in awe for the past few days. It is amazing how much knowledge and strength I feel when I read these stories.

Dianne, I have always thought it to be healthy to develop a new type of relationship with our ex's, whether it is an old friendship, lover or husband. You have a past together and even though one part of the relationship is torn, there seems to be some value in continuing a connection.

I imagine that it would be unhealthy, on the other hand, to have ties with an abusive ex. I have no desire to have any contact with my abuser even after 15 years. I don't even want contact with my former step children, who were just as sick as the ex.

Is this normal? Is it situational? Is it a part of forgiving myself?

Well to me its "out of sight, out of mind." That works just fine.

Jane, if I have anger I can physically feel it in my body more then mentally. It can be compared to a weight pressing on my shoulders. I guess this is from my therapy with "Dr. Bob" because I felt lighter after my sessions end and could easily recognize when that old part of me is trying to return.

I belonged to a book club in Ohio and one of the women told the group that she was having a problem with another woman (rightfully so, it was a verbally abusive friendship) and she was having trouble forgiving her. The women were offering her advice and prayer and my big mouth jumped in and said, "It's a choice. You decide to forgive or not forgive and you do it in your heart." It's really very simple.

Lynnie, sadly, I have no problem passing a DQ! As a matter of fact, I got a chocolate dipped cone yesterday. I decided to go back in history while visiting Scottsdale years ago and drove by our home there. Not a good thing. Made me sick to my stomach and took me back in time. I also have a problem with driving down Hayden Road there. That was close to where we lived and where he terrorized me in the car.

David and I went to dinner by Lake Wayzata and afterward, sat by the lake, watching the boats dock. It was a trigger for me and I had to leave. I still have a small amount of PTSD that will rear it's ugly head but my shrink told me to continue to open myself to this and it will leave.

Anno, I see no reason to ever force ourselves to be friendly with an ex and especially when the kids aren't yours and his--together. When I forgave the abuser, he took it as a sign that I still cared for him and was trying to "romance" me. He was married at the time too. Knowing him, he was having problems in his marriage and needed another woman on the hook after his wife left him (she did).

It's okay to walk away forever. Like Jesus said, shake the sand from your sandals, when you do. Leave it behind, where it belongs. It and they, were an experience that we learned from...hopefully. So many women don't and will connect with another abuser because she hasn't gotten to the root of the problem, which is her attraction to the abusive personality. She MUST find out why, when, how, so she can break the pattern.

Wow, so much has been brought to light already. This is great.

Ladies, please announce to the world that Dianne is here this month to assist women in understanding domestic violence. I've read her book and know how much she has to offer. I've also read Lynnie's so we are fortunate to have the attention of two such wise women on this topic.

Dianne, another section I have underlined is page 25. I guess I underlined this because as younger women we tend to care too much about what others think.

Here are your words:

I had pride, but it was misdirected. Instead of focusing on important issues such as self-respect, inner peace, or living a normal, violence-free life, I would focus on what other people might think. A very short marriage, divorced again, being alone, growing old without a man, and being forced to start dating again. Although I felt I was a failure in every aspect of my life, I didn't want others to view me in the same light. I had to hide the woman I had become. In my mind, it was easier to live with the violence than admit I'd made yet another mistake.

What honesty! Brutal honesty.

I would love to believe that this is the thinking of a younger woman...before one realizes that we need not focus on what others think, but I believe even midlife women, and older women think exactly like this and that's why they stay.

I came by that thinking naturally. My parents would have rathered I stayed in an abusive marriage than get a divorce. I'm sure it was an embarrassment to them that I was getting, yet, another divorce. But, there is nothing like the fear of being killed to make you leave and even my shrink told me he was afraid I'd end up with a broken neck because my husband would pick me up by the throat/neck and throw me into walls. But you know what? When you are living in that fear and soon after the abuse, a victim tends to minimize the horror of it. She forgets how scared she was and the pain she felt. The fear of the unknown outweighs the fear of another incident of abuse.

Dotsie, I have found that women my age seem to be afraid of what others think than the younger women. Maybe it's a generational thing that we've yet to overcome. But, after therapy and at the age of 47, I stopped caring about it. I've heard that hitting the age of 50 will do it so I guess I was an early bloomer.