Sadly many women "brag" about their fertility. At least it comes across as bragging to me.

It's just another one of those sensitive comments that could "turn the gut" of one whose body just "never worked normally".

Dear Di, I've noticed that you have posted repeatedly about this topic, and despite many ladies who have tried to show their understanding and give you comfort, your hurt can't seem to stop. Have you ever tried to find professional help? I don't mean this in a derogatory way. I just feel that no matter how we try to explain or try to comfort you, it doesn't ease your pain, your feeling of loss and even resentment.

To resent someone is to fall under the illusion that they are the cause of our suffering.

I would have loved to have more children, but I don't resent any mother who has had this privilege. Now that my children are adults, I also enjoy finding myself again. This joy is as large as motherhood. After all, your life is all about you; your childhood, your growing up, and now your adulthood. There are many stages within yourself to discover. It's the joy of life within itself.

It may be a cultural difference Di. but when I meet people as I have at work who are childless I just dont feel the need to ask them about their situation.I also dont mention my own children until asked.Likewise when people ask what my children "do" say school achievment or academic attainment I dont like when they say "you must be proud of them"I would be proud of any child doing their best.My friend who has a dughter with a sydrome feels no less than I do.The girl just has different needs.
I realised long ago that peoples souls are important.When I see an old person I think on the child they were and the love that surrounded them.I feel empathy.
In fact I admire my children because they did study and achieve but I suported them in what they wanted to do.They didn't do it for me or their Daddy.
Like Hanelore I mean no hurt I only offer my perspective.
Mountain ash

Oh believe me, Hannelore! The best counsel I receive is my message board. The need to feel "understood" is a biggy with those who are childless, not by choice. (CNBC)

If you refer back to my original subject title, it's about "educating" those of us who ARE CNBC. With a world FULL of children, mothers, grandmothers I feel called to do this educating. And I also know that most women want to learn to be sensitive to others' situations. Some not, of course. But all in all, this thread is about education.

In my situation, I am doing great! Granted, I have my down days as well. Just as a mother who is estranged from children would.

Jesus is the best Counselor!!

I am mother the mother of 5 children. My oldest died when she was 11yrs old..25 yrs ago on the 29th of August..a liver disease which today could have been helped by a liver transplant..and recently, my 31yr old daughter told me that I have lost one more daughter (herself) mainly because I refused to give her a loan for a car. She has 3 children herself..is a single mother...and then I have another daughter (my oldest living child) who has one child and cannot seem to have anymore because her husband has too few and slow sperm..this daughter is 34 and her husband is 42..there are so many situations in life that hurt and pain..very very deeply. I don´t know about books that educate people about what to say or not to say. People say stupid, silly things..meaning well..but getting it all wrong anyway. Don`t you think??? Some of these silly things teach me the lesson of humility (I hope)because I have to remember that people don´t understand fully..they have not walked in my moccassins..but they are perhaps still trying in their own way to understand and give condolence or whatever. If people get instructions about what to say or not say...does what they DO say come from the heart..even if that heart is clumsy and silly sometimes? I don´t know..Two of my children (adults) are in therapy and due to this therapy, I think, they say very hurtful things about our daughter and their sister that we all lost so many years ago. But it´s honest..what they say at present..and even tho it hurts SO MUCH..I still want what they are thinking now..I know that they will move on and perhaps think something else..whatever that may be..but I want their honesty..otherwise I have nothing to relate to..to work with.

When my daughter died, many told me that it was God´s will, etc etc. I couldn´t swallow that..now or then. But these people tried in their own way..I can appreciate that..I think. My daughter who cannot have anymore children..she has one child, I know..but is there room for her pain, too? There should be..I think..maybe without pamphlets and help?

I know that I am on thin ice here..but I want to lift these thoughts into the open..with the greatest of humility and hope that I will get straight answers back.

Many of you say that one should leave one´s adult children to have their own lives and get on with one´s life..I am living with a man that is the same age as my oldest living daughter,34. I will soon be 60. So yes, I have my own life. But my other daughter..the single mother with 3 kids, is still looking for her mother, she says. She needs help..but not at the expense of my entire life..what´s left of it..(my opinion)..so what is the definition of a mother? Caretaker? Is it supposed to be one that never says "no"..I work with "needy" children..that´s my job..and yes, I can have stomach aches and sleepless nights because of the children that I work with..they are not mine, but they TRUST in me and I cannot break their trust..OooooHHHHHH..where does motherhood begin and end???

Am I the sort of person that doesn´t understand not being a mom not by choice??? I KNOW that I am blessed by my biological children..that I cannot deny..but I am also blessed by the children that I touch and the trust and love they give me each day. And I remember my clumsy friends and aquaintances that tried to give me solace and comfort when my child died..because I assume that they tried..and believe me, there is a STARE and silence there too. Hospital attendents who tried to understand with looks..and I wanted to give them a punch..but today I think I understand that they tried.

Am I totally off here??? Please tell me if I am. I want to know..Life has so many cuts..aspects..and it is thru sincerity that we learn from one another..or NOT???? I am almost afraid to post this..but I will anyway..maybe to learn something myself that I don´t SEE..because I certainly don´t SEE everything! I have learned that at least!

Humlan
I taught children who then died.They were children who had sufferd with cancers. Believe me when I say I made every day at school a precious day.We carried on normality best we could.One set of parents turned to me asking if I would attend the funeral parlour to say goodbye.Took me to the girls bedroom and asked me to choose a keepsake(I took a hair ribbon) Another Mother never speaks if we see each other at the shops.Yet another cut herself and her child off from my staff and the childs peers at the end.This was how she coped.
In all cases it was a two way relationship.They acted in the best way they could.Given their heartache.However sincere and caring a person is the turmoil parents feel makes an
unreal and sensitive relationship.
I was sincere in what I said and did at these times and believe me when I say I will never forget these young people.
Mountain ash

Thank you, Mountain Ash. Then my intuitive feeling that the people around us tried their best for us is probably true. I haven´t actually considered my own shattered self at the time and therefore my oversenitive response to some of these fellow humans. Somehow tho, as I wrote earlier, I did feel that they were trying..trying to reach us in their own way. Let us know that they cared.. What I don´t agree with at this point are pamphlets or kits telling you how to act or what to say to people that are going thru a difficult time. These things take away the sincerity that you are talking about..
Humlan

This is such a rich topic. Thanks for sharing from the heart.

I think so much of what people say and do in difficult situations has to do with ignorance, and I don't meant that in a bad way. Some of us are green when it comes to certain situations and even though we mean well, we may come across as rude, uncaring, unloving. I think hulan has realized through the years that even though people didn't respond a certain way, at least they responded and tried to show care. Is that right humlan? And even after all these years, I express my sympathy. A dear friend of ours just lost her only son and I am trying to show love and care for my friends. I just hope I'm doing it appropriately, if there is an appropriate way to act.

I can relate to this ignorance in another area of my life. Two of our three children are adopted from Korea. AS they were being raised, people always asked if they were brother and sister. It made me cringe, especially if they were standing right there with me. I typically responded, "Of course they are brother and sister." They didn't realize n their ignorance to be nosy that they were being offensive. I think what some of them meant, but didn't say appropriately was,"Were they sibligns in Korea before you adopted them?"

One funny, ignorant thing I have to share is that after our oldest son arrived at three months, he of course was living with us. When he was beginning to talk, someone who had knkow him since he arrived, asked if when he spoke, would he talk in English? All I could do was laugh! What do people think? They don't always think before speaking. That's the problem.