We've always put doctors in a lofty position. They can save lives, they can heal the sick. No wonder they have God complexes!

They can look down their nose at a battered woman and send her home without asking any questions that might change the direction of their lives.

My doctor in Ohio was fun and interesting but he was a jerk in some ways. One time he told me I was a rescuer because I was trying to help battered women. I just gave him a long, cold stare and said, "Well, what does that make you? You're trying to save people too and haven't you sent some of your patients to see me for help?" He could see something as he wanted to see it. He was the Great Healer and I was a rescuer.

Like you, I could go on and on about doctors and the judicial system and how they further abuse a victim. We just take it one step at a time and try to educate those who don't have a clue.

Words are clothes that thoughts wear. In otherwords, sometimes people verbalize their thoughts, and sometimes these thoughts are uneducated.

"His reply Lynnie, was that she must have enjoyed it, as she didn't try leaving home." We all know how appalling this is. We all know that victims are threatened with their lives, or the lives of their mothers, others, siblings, whomever, if they tell, leave, scream, etc. And this: "But i couldn't see why that was an unreasonable thing to want to do in her situation." That is certainly a strong dose of compassion and understanding. I learned this from my counseling when I was "bouncing back" from that suicide attempt: "I believe every one ever born enters this world from a place of absolute love." I had never heard that concept before because I had grown up Catholic, which instilled in me the notion that we were all born sinners. I took things very literally. It was a revelation to have my Mormon therapist tell me that we are born to love and be loved!

That is exactly what a doctor said to me Dianne,'Do you have a need to rescue?' Only i didn't have your courage to confront him .

Like you Lynnie, i have also attempted suicide,
i was about 34. I think it is a dark family secret. None of my relatives have ever mentioned it - to me. Maybe they thought it was/is, a kindness to say nothing. i don't know. Maybe it's something i'm suppose to be ashamed of. i dont know.

You had been taught Lynnie that 'all are born sinners', were you also taught 'and all continue to sin'?

It's a self fulling prophesy eh. I was born bad, and will continue to do bad things.

Where's the hope, the excitment,
where's the wonder that makes life good ?

I wonder if our world would be different if we were taught....
Everyone is made of star dust and born holy but fragile' "And everyone will remain fragile"

thanks for replying dianne and lynnie

Oh Norma, I am so sorry you experienced the despair of suicide. The Deseridata helped me: "You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars." We were born good, meant to do good works! That's why you are still here, my dear! Love and Light, Lynn P.S. We are strong!

thank you Lynnie you are a sweetheart!! And you are correct, we are strong. and we are intelligent!! And often a hell of lot more intelligent than many of those giving orders etc.... (maybe that's how the some of the confusion begins, trying to figure out, what's going on, why are basic rules of kindness being so ignored ? What am i missing?) I think you know what i mean. (and i think now, if we leave too soon, we might have to come back..and start all over. Oh lord what if we came back as some burqa covered woman in the middle east?. No, we'll finish the job eh, and enjoy as much as we can while we try to do as best we can.....thanks again lynn

Norma, so many times I heard: "there is a reason you survived." I could not fathom my reason for being on earth. Lately, instead of thinking there has to be a reason, I believe that I am here just because that is what God wants period. I try not to question the reason for being anymore. I don't know if I believe in reincarnation. I believe in an afterlife. I believe in finishing business, and I definitly would have gone with unfinished business. I finished a lot of business with the grace of God in the last 2 decades. I have also learned gratitude. I often know that I am more intelligent than many of the people who have superior positions than I. They had more education, more luck, more opportunity, more ability, less trauma. You mentioned shame. I no longer feel ashamed that I attempted suicide because I now understand the reasons...it was not my fault I was sexually assaulted as a child. Suicide was a way out of the pain. But I do regret that I spent so many years in PTSD and thus was unable to concentrate on an education. I would have loved to use the God given intelligence for good. That's one regret: I feel like I wasted the intelligence. I have to remind myself to enjoy. en JOY. I try to do the best that I can most of the time. It sounds to me that you were in professions where kindness and compassion became less important while the "bottom line" (dollars) became more important, and you could not reconcile that in your heart.

Hello Lynnie.. the 'mount cashel scandal' in canada opened discussions here of the physical, emotional and sexual abuse of boys.

I've come to believe because women, like yourself, have been willing to share their stories and the need for healing, young male victims of sexual abuse have been encouraged to speak out and seek help.

Just as gender makes no difference in our need for protection and love, it makes no difference when it comes to pain, fear, anger.

I've also come to believe there are many older men who were molested or raped when boys, but who will never talk about it for a number of reasons.

And they, just like female victims, will self destruct in various ways and unintentionally hurt those closest to them along the way until they start to heal.

And the joy you mentioned, the joy which should be part of everyone's life, is not theirs or those who live with them, until healing begins.
Though it be one small step at a time, healing can take place.

I'm not sure if what i've said here is relevent to what we've been talking about, but wanted to share these thoughts, as it seems many of us in this site think along the same lines on many things.

Reasons: I've heard people say that Nicole Brown Simpson's death was a blessing in disguise because it created so much awareness regarding dv. I say, it was a senseless, brutal death that should have never happened. There was no good in it!

We're all here for a reason. Sometimes we have trouble trying to figure out why though, right?

My 17 year old granddaughter is visiting and told me she was always attracted to the bad boys. I gave her a copy of my book and told her to read it. It's time for that. It's opened up a lot of discussion about dv.

[ November 12, 2005, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Dianne ]

Dianne, I'd love to hear what your granddaughter has to say about your book. How cook is that for her to be able to read Nana's book?