I don't either, Dotsie. I do need to talk to him. There are things he just sees as "my neediness". or a "nagging" thing. He does not know, thru Christ, how important intimacy is. His idea of intimacy is "doing" stuff for me. But my other love languages suffer in the meantime.

:sigh: Oh well. I'll keep praying for him.

There is a written and apparently proven fact that intimacy when good in a marriage is important 10% but when it is bad it is 90% important....I don't make these things up ladies.

i haven't had sex with my husband in over a year...even then it wasn't intercourse...before that it had been a year...
he's been to the doctor (full physical), he's taken viagra which worked a few times (by default?), we've had the heart-to-hearts, he's been prescribed anxiety meds, depression meds, had a sleep study done on him, mri's, cat scans, you name it...he's currently seeing a psychologist who told me to just accept the way my husband is...curiously, he also expressed surprise that i hadn't cheated on him...
this guy is not our first to say that as we've had marriage counselors and individual counselors here and there for some time now...

this guy is the first guy...my husband was headstrong about not seeing a male mental health professional...when it came up again, there were only guys on the list of available providers so he had to pick or not go...he conceded and we went together for a while...

it's not just the sex i'm without, it's everything...for as wild and wonderful as things were in the beginning (of the marriage, not just the relationship) he's since cooled to the point that if he were a woman i'd refer to him as a frigid bitch...he's not just without desire, he's cranky about it...

at one point a little over a year ago i hugged him knowing he wouldn't hug back and just told him that i loved him...he hadn't said "i love you too" in several months and he hadn't said "i love you" in years...i pulled away and asked "does it matter that i say 'i love you'?"...he misunderstood the question and replied "it doesn't matter that you love me"...the psychologist pointed to him misunderstanding the question...i pointed to him having expressed a truth...

he started off pulling away from my holding his hand, progressed to hugging with one arm and then none at all...finally he said one day that he'd had sex when he didn't feel like it and that he thought he should have stronger boundaries than that, and that's when our physical life together ended completely...all the while we'd been seeing professionals (medical and mental health, together and individually), and all i've gotten out of it is a litany of people telling me there's really nothing wrong with him and i just have to accept that...oddly, he's not been called upon to accept that i'm who i am...

he moved out in july and we had a few more sessions after that...i ended my participation because of an incident that happened in august...i told him that i felt like we were divorced save a piece of paper...he agreed...to interject briefly, we are stationed overseas...while we can be separated and have a separation agreement, we can't get a divorce here...to move back to the states before his tour is up would cost us thousands of dollars we simply don't have...we don't live together and have no involvement except where it concerns the kids -- just like a divorced couple...
the psychologist asked him, as a courtesy, if he would agree to leave me be if he saw me out with someone else...he did not agree...in fact he went off...i told him it made no sense for me to save myself for a man who clearly no longer had romantic feelings, much less for me, that my chaste was only for his benefit and was only aggravating me...even the psychologist agreed that he had no right to attempt to restrict my behavior given his harping about having no drive, feeling there was nothing wrong with that, and how i should leave him alone once and for all....additionally, the separation agreement states he has no right to interfere with my life...still he felt it would be horribly wrong for me to step outside the "marriage"...
he goes on and on about how i think sex is all there is to it and refuses to address the fact that he won't even hold hands, that it isn't all about sex, it's about any kind of physical regard at all...

i don't know where the man went that i married, but i know he's no where around...i wish i had realized this sooner and i wish i knew just what in the hell is going on with him...
the psychologist has called me twice to inquire about certain issues but can't get too in depth else he'd violate my husband's confidentiality...
i tell him what i know and leave it at that...

it's not that i don't care, it's that i can't afford to do what a caring person would do anymore...i still have three kids at home and a job and a household to run...the kids and i have so many family meetings i'm about to call a sabbatical but i know it's good the lines are open at least with them...they're old enough to know the surface issues, that this is about marital physical neglect, and they understand what i'm talking about as they too have been on the receiving end of one-armed hugs and a cool silence when they've said "good night dad, love you"...they don't have to know more than that althought i've been told more than once that anyone over the age of 16 could understand sexual frigidity...i'm all about keeping the lines open and talking with my kids about their sex lives, but i'm not going to talk about mine with them...i just can't even think of any way that would ever be appropriate unless my husband actually died from it somehow and the kids wanted to know what the cause was...

i used to be at my wit's end, but now i'm just witless...
this arrangement is not what i would prefer but it's the best for now, financially and for the kids...they want to see him and he does make the effort to see them...he just doesn't hug them hello or say "i love you too" at goodbyes...

it's been heartbreaking, slow horrible heartbreak, not the quick "i gotta get out of this life" announcement of my last husband who made sure it was less than 30 days from "i'm done" to he was gone and out of our lives...it's almost 20 years later and i feel like i'm going through this crap all over again as if it were just yesterday...completely different men, completely different issues, almost the same feelings...i'm not as hopeless and dependent as i was last time when i had no income, but what i have done for myself financially doesn't make up for what mattered the most...

my sister and i were discussing it one day...she's recently divorced from her first husband and is going through a major custody problem...i'd told her a while ago that divorce changes men drastically, that she could not count on any of what she considered to be his bottom lines, but she did anyway and paid dearly for it...
anyway, someone told her divorce was like a death to which she responded it most certainly was not...death is an end and the dead don't come back to haunt you in full view of the kids, friends, cops, etc...divorce is worse than death...divorce is more like alzheimers, especially with regard to the men...i have to go with that...
the slow, agonizing way in which my husband has come to leave me is nothing short of brain damaged in terms of the craziness and inconsistency...

the irony in him not wanting me to cheat is that his slow but sure drain on our love life has created a pain in me that doesn't want physical affection right now...i know i want it eventually, it's not dead, it's just on hold while i get myself better together...i need time to myself -- time not spent trying to "help" him...i exhausted myself trying to understand him, make changes i thought i could make, going to doctors and counselors, reading books, doing this and that and any other thing...gawd it was tiring...i focus on my health which i let slide a little...i work out, i keep up on my writing, i focus on my kids and our home...

i can't stand seeing him anymore...oddly, of late he's been trying to engage me in conversations about his childhood, his issues, etc...it wasn't that long ago when i would've given anything to have had him start a discussion like this, but it's just too late...i'm too tired...it's not like he's asking to come back or try to work on the marriage or anything like that...he just wants to extend his therapy time as far as i'm concerned and that's not a use of my time and effort i'm willing to make at this point...

i guess my only point in sharing is that any woman in this position will eventually come to a point where she has to redefine her life, her expectations, etc...i fought long and hard this time because i didn't want to go through another divorce and i especially didn't want to drag the kids through one...the older two were teeny tiny when my ex and i divorced, they don't know him, my husband now is the only father they've ever known...
i wish the very best for any woman going through this...

msdiana, I applaud you for all you've done to try to stay in the marriage. My heart aches for you because you have truly tried every darn little thing possible and still come up short.

But don't let that fool you. Once you get this behind you, you will do well. Just think of all the energy you've poured into this relationship. Now you'll be able to use positive nergy to set things straight again for YOU!

Keep taking good care of your children and YOU.

I know you are far away from home. Do you have a support system there?

When do you get to come back to the states?

MsDiana God bless you for having the courage not only to share your personal journey but to stand tall against it. This situation usually follows this path, suspicion, surprise, hurt, anger and then to indifference. It's when you have reached the indiffernce stage that it is all but over. This is the stage when we begin to think of our lives, children and our futures and thats as it should be. Something very terrible happens to many men when they reach a certain age, if I knew what it was and how to cure ot, I would be the worlds wealthiest woman. No one has the answer least of all these affected men. It is the most painful thing but you are okay and will be even better as time goes by. Having him hanging around however is a step backwards, he needs to find out what being alone means. Now he has lost nothing he lives his life as he choses to, continuing to neglect your needs.... End it as soon as you can and allow yourself to enjoy the rest of your life and maybe find someone who will truly need and care for you...just my two cents....

msdiana, how brave you are to pour out your soul here, and to come to terms with what is REAL in your relationship, what can't be fixed no matter how hard you try, and for coming to terms with the only solution available to you. Moving on.

I've said before that it is like you actually hear that straw break that everyone says "broke the camels back." Once that happens, so be it. You don't care, you know there is no going back, and you're ready to start putting one foot in front of the other again. You know there is something better out there, and by all that's holy, you won't settle for less. I admire you, and I ache for you at the same time. I will hold you up in prayer.

JJ

msdiana.......JJ expresses it well.
Hope you feel all of us wishing you the best in your new life to come.
Lynne

"how brave you are to pour out your soul here"

yea, it was more like coughing up a huge friggin' hairball...my kingdom for some maalox...

i really appreciate the very kind and supportive words yous guys...it means a lot to me...i struggled with posting this, not so much because of the soul pouring thing but because it didn't seem like as big a deal as the things i see other women going through (affairs, disease, death, etc)...then i read not one but a bunch of posts here and in other places from women hurting with the same thing...it's not my secret anymore...i wish more women would realize that...i'm no catharine zeta jones but i'm sexy and energetic and feisty in my own way and i know now that it wasn't me that caused his problems…this is what i thought for so long...my heart goes out to those women who are so convinced it's their weight, that they had a mastectomy, that they’re older and their wagon is draggin'...i'm not one to go around telling my story to just any old body who will listen but i refuse to keep quiet about it anymore because these women have got to know it wouldn't matter what they looked like: a man with no desire for contact of any kind is simply not their fault...i've told my friends about this, my sister, and a few other women online in a much more anonymous way...i've come to learn that middle-aged men losing desire is more common than men taking off with their young blonde secretaries...my husband did buy a new motorcycle, a fast one to be sure, but it replaced the one he had so that wasn't so very out of character...
i’m convinced now that he isn’t gay (something else i considered for a while) and i’m glad he never had an affair (that i know of) but it doesn’t help that much…the last female therapist i had i fired because of something she said to me…she asked me how i would feel if he did have an affair especially in light of him saying he doesn’t desire anyone, not just me…that wasn’t why i fired her…when i told her i would kill him she said “i have to report that”…that’s why i fired her…she did report it and i was cleared as “no threat to herself or anyone else”…what a bitch…i know they have their rules but c’mon…what did she think i was going to say?…“well at least i know his penis works now!”…jeezy creezy…

i don't have friends here but thank God for the ones i have in the states whose phone calls and emails have been the best for me...we have until next june before we leave...i will miss europe so bad it hurts already, i really do love it here...this is the first place we've ever been that i didn't start thinking about the next place we'd go...the christmas markets don't help that either as this is my favorite time of year and if anyone can do christmas right, it's germany...i fell in love with rothenburg as it looks like all my dreams...i've looked into the real estate there – oh my gawd, it costs so much to live there but it's every bit as beautiful as it is expensive...

if i am able to find a way to stay i will...the kids have expressed an interest in staying and it's a lot easier and cheaper for my older daughter to pursue her archaeological interests here…if only i could find a sexy european man who would understand my need to fly back to the states once a year to shop at Target…sigh…

Your husband sounds very angry. And, why do they decide to have conversations that have been begged for, after the fact? Like it's the last thread that might keep the woman hanging on.

Did you ever see the movie, Nine and 1/2 weeks? It goes along the same lines but is about a relationship that is based only on sex.

I hurt for you. This must be so awful.

Had a chit chat w/DH about this. He says he realizes my needs. However, he mentioned that he's trying to "get healthy" and knows that intimacy continues to be important in our marriage.

But, nothing yet! I guess this is what the Lord meant when He said, "Love is LONGsuffering".

Lord,I want patience NOW!!