Hi Sugar, I'm so sorry for what you had to endure, and that you experience these ramifications. Love and Light, Lynn

Sheree,

I would first like to remind everyone, I am not a doctor. Following that, it sounds like your panic attacks may be a symptom of PTSD, so Julie would be the one to answer your questions, (I'll take the OCD questions).

However, I for years I had a panic response to the smell of the disinfectant that was sprayed in school after someone vomited. One wiff and my chest did that familiar "flip" and I was off.

Now, I am able to smell the smell, remember the event(I was vomited on in school at the age of 7-it was quite traumatic), and not experience panic.

My recovery from panic was a slow climb up a very steep hill. It wasn't a simple process for me, meaning it was not a single thing. It was a combination of therapy, medication, and lifestyle changes that eventually allowed me to live a life without the cycle of panic.

Jeanne

Sugaree,
Julie here. So sorry to learn of your history...and of the present circumstances that history surrounds you with. I can definitely relate to the link between childhood trauma and PTSD (and smells). Did you know that the olfactory nerves are the shortest of the sensory nerves, shortest as in they go straight to the processing center of the brain. Remember that long ago (I mean eons ago...) the sense of smell was probably our primary and most immediate source of information about the environment. That was good news way back when we needed to survive from predators. The sense of smell is unique in other ways - the brain learns very quickly "what a smell means" and it doesn't take but one molecule of that scent to evoke the memories and experiences originally associated with the smell. I have a similar "association" -with nail polish. I can hardly write the word without smelling it and the fear of re-experiencing the sensations that went along with that "original learning," roar to the front of my mind - just writing the word.
I am sure none of this "helps" you - it doesn't help me, not in any big way, although it is good to understand some things about how the brain works.
It sounds like you've been in therapy and made some progress there, but I can hear "silent secrets" inbetween your words and the hopelessness that that kind of silence brings. I would like to offer you hope, the first piece of which is knowing that you are not alone. Of course, your experience is unique, but it is experience that can be understood. I understand a lot about you and I know a lot about PTSD. It remains one of the more baffling of the anxiety disorders because of what they refer to as its "longevity." There are many theories and many possible treatments, most of which involve and "unlearning" or your original response. A sort of elaborate dissasociation process. I have stumbled upon something in my own therapy that gave me surprising relief. I'd be interested in hearing what you've tried and what your results have been, and if it's more appropriate to discuss this one-on-one (Is that okay, Dotsie?), then we should do that.
I have to run now, but I'll post to you again. Until then, know that you are not alone and that what you're experiencing (even by way of anticipation of the smells to come) makes perfect, natural sense.
-Julie

Thank you kindly, Lynn. I feel that way about your experiences as well (I think I told you that but just in case, I really am).

Thank you for at least attempting to answer this delima, Jeanne.

Julie, your quote, I can definitely relate to the link between childhood trauma and PTSD (and smells). Did you know that the olfactory nerves are the shortest of the sensory nerves, shortest as in they go straight to the processing center of the brain... makes all the sense in the world to me.

quote:

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It sounds like you've been in therapy and made some progress there, but I can hear "silent secrets" inbetween your words and the hopelessness that that kind of silence brings

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YES! and I'm very tired of the silent secrets! Just to give an idea of how devasting this is and how coping is really a problem:

I flipped/panicked when I saw my grandaughter's grandfather check her pamper. He, like any parent, pulled her pamper aside and stuck his finger 'there.' My 'brain' automatically told me that he is a pervert and to kill him. Of course I regained myself immediately and brushed it off as a panick attack. This is NOT healthy though. What if I cant do that all of the time? I know where this came from. I was very young when my father did these 'things' and can recall how he made everyone around him think that he was 'normal'.

My father must have appeared to be just a loving father with his daughter sitting on his shoulders walking around. What they dont know is how he would occassionally reach back and feel my private while he toted me on his shoulders whistling, 'My Cheri Amore.' To date, when that song plays, I panick. This was in a beautiful country setting where scents of flowers, specifically honeysuckle, permeate.

These memories obviously cant be undone. I'm the last boomer age range and the stinch is still heavy in my nostil, my mind. What I learned in therapy is a technique called, '123'. When I feel like I'll panick/dissociate, I am to count (in my head) at least one, then two...three things that I can hear, touch and smell over and over until I'm grounded again.

How that affects me in a professional setting is just pure evil! Whatever it is that I was doing is gone by now. I could be in the middle of a statement or thought contribution and suddenly have to do this secret counting. Doesn't work while you're trying to work. You look fickle or worse when you just stop talking and can't recall the original thought process. I know what's happening but just cant say it. I feel doomed most of the time which equals 'looking' lazy with so many skills...just wasting away.

[ June 05, 2005, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: Sugaree ]

WOW. When I joined this site I was excited about meeting women who could identify with the "boomer" era. I didn't expect to find something else it appears many of us have in common.

Not just the panic disorders but the reasons for them. Julie and Jeanne, I hope to order your book soon.

My childhood abuse has left me with difficulty in making close friends. I know there are trust issues but this problem is magnified when you have been abused and made to feel worthless and unloved. It's as if you're totally alone out here with no one who "really" understands.

I'm overwhelmed by the honesty of those who have posted here and I feel much empathy for your heartaches and current sufferings. But what I do see are some very brave and courageous women.

My hope is to maybe connect and make some "real" friendships.

Blessings, Francine

It is absolutely fine for women to email privately. However, if the information you are sharing is something other women can benefit from, I hope you will also post it here.

Jeanne and Julie, many women read these forums and never post. You don't know how many women your words are healing. Thank you for sharing about such an intimate topic.

Writegirl, one thing you will find here is that whatever it is, you are not alone. I'm so sorry to hear that you too experienced childhood abuse. I assure you, even though we are in cyber-space, you will make some real friendships on this site. I relate to you and Sugar; it takes a lot for me to trust. I also went through feelings of being worthless and wasted. Sugar, my therapist used a similar technique with me because I used to space out. What is real in the here and now? Also, Sugar, I don't like that method of checking a diaper. My goodness, I never thought of it before, but that is an invasion of privacy in infancy. And a toddler...well, what is that teaching them? That adults have the right to ...I would have reacted in the same way! Is this common practice? Why check a diaper that way? Also, Sugar, anyone who survives what we have survived is not lazy, or wasting away. In fact, think of all the highly honed skills you have had to use to survive! Think how clever and smart you are for being able to function with abuse going on. You're brave to me, even when you need to take time to count. Love and Light, Lynn

Didn't I get enough attention as the featured author a couple of months ago? Gosh, I just have so much to say on these subject. Jeanne and Julie, I am so mad that I was treated for anxiety and depression as a kid, and the reasons for those symptoms went unnoticed. As a social worker, I did a study on the correlation between suicide attempts and abuse. I'd like to see a study on the correlation between abuse and panic attacks. I want to say, there is hope. Today I stood in front of a congregation without any fear or anxiety. I felt as natural and calm, even calming the person next to me who was practically hyper-ventilating. I don't have your book yet, so I don't know what methods you propose for healing from panic attacks. My personal experience is that meditation and visualization are good methods. Okay, that's all for now. I don't want to be a forum hog! Love and Light, Lynn

Yes Lynn! It was horrible what went through my mind. It was almost dangerous for him. I had to calm down and think about it. Is this man a pervert? Or, am I just the one over reacting because of my own past?

You're also right about the laziness. Nowhere close to it. The days that 'we' aren't productive are the ones that (at least for me) I'm worn out with flashbacks or other strange relative events.


I peruzed Jeannie and Julie's site. These ladies are on the ball. I especially like the screenplay loglines presented. They really sound interesting. I'd love to come down to Chi to see one. When???

Writegirl, it's just like that when your trust has been broken at such a young age. God bless.

Sugaree, Lynn (and Other Readers)
Lynn-
You're right to feel angry about being treated for anxiety and depression when the reasons for your condition went unnoticed. It's just mind-boggingly insane when you stop to think how clueless society and health care practitioners were just a short time ago. Of course, you can't hold someone responsible for not knowing what wasn't known back then - but from our perspective today, it seems absolutely crazy to me especially when it comes to CHILDREN - that people never raised the WHY?????? question. That doesn't - or at lest it shouldn't happen nowadays, so thank god for the watchful eyes of a more enlightened nation. Doctors, psychologists, social workers, school nurses, teachers - everyone's on the lookout for "signs of abuse." We should be joyful for that. It's one of those advancements that can't be taken away.

I wanted to share this simple but poignant story from when I was a teenager; I knew this child, a baby really, with stunningly beautiful child-white hair and infinite blue eyes - I swear you could (at least I could) see clear straight to eternity in those eyes. This child's mother was clueless about a zillion things and I remember watching this child, wanting to tell his mother "Don't do this and don't do that and hold him this way, can't you see he's angry?" Not that I would have spoken, but oh how I wanted to! Some time around when this child was 10 months old, he started biting his mother - fairly violent biting. I had seen this happen, so I knew what the mom was talking about, but I also knew that the baby was ANGRY and to me, he was doing the only thing he could. (Again, you want to say hmmmm? now why would a 10 month old do this? what is this 10 month old trying to say? I remember hearing the mother talk about this to another women - I just wanted to steal the baby (good thing I didn't act on impulses then ). A short time later, I saw the mother and her son again. He was in her arms, and he looked different to me - some of that beautiful blue infinity seemed to have left his eyes forever. As I studied him that moment, the mother explained to a neighbor how she'd solved the biting problem...every time he bit her, she put Tobasco sauce on his tongue. She said this in a proud way, as if she'd invented a household shortcut or something. I remember feeling such sorrow when I heard this, for it seemed to me that I could literally see how the child had "gone away" (what PTSD and other trauma specialists refer to nowadays as "dissocation:). One day - there's a beautiful child with a soul that burns blue in his radiant eyes - then poof! a lot of stupidity and a little Tobasco sauce - and the child's soul turns in on itself, away from the world and from those who might hurt him.
It's so sad and so obvious when you think of the connection between what's done to a child and what a child does.
I wanted to tell this story because it is not about sexual abuse but the child's life took similar course to many abuse survivors. I still know "of him" today and he's way messed up as his "family" says. So here's an example of a life jettisoned off track at an early age from, oh, I'll just be kind and say "stupidity." Imagine, imagine, imagine what happens when the harm brought to a child is of physical or sexual abuse. Oh how sad that so many get broken so early. And how sad that just a short time ago, no one though to ask what might have broken these children!
But, but, but ... we do live in a time of great hope, not just for preventing child abuse, but for treating and healing - YES! HEALING! - survivors. One of the first steps is understanding the connection between what happened to you and what became of you because of what happened.
I applaud Lynn and Sugaree for sharing their stories. I know there are readers who must identify with them. Please, anyone, if there's something you want to talk about or something you want to see discussed, you can post a question or a "discussion request" - you don't have to say anything about yourself.
Until next time-
Julie