I went back and looked and also, did not see those words used by chatty.
She started this topic out of pure love for dogs and to help those of us who may use a groomer, to keep our pets safe. If some of her statements were inaccuarate, then that should be stated but jumping on her isn't necessary.
We are here to share ideas and HELP each other. I for one am glad when someone tells me something that I need to watch out for.
And yes, welcome to all the newcomers! We want you to stay, but be kind.

Chattylady,

Mabye the mobile groomer trouble people you are having is just around there. I hope so because that sounds just awful. Actually mobile grooming is great for your pets, esp. if they get really stressed out. I concentrate on the pets one on one so they are not rotated in and out of cages all day. It usually takes an average of about one hour to complete a groom and that is so much better on the dog than spending a few hours at a salon. We put alot of hard work into ours, so don't think it's a cheap investment for someone with no experience goes for. A brand new one can run $50,000 My husband designed and built ours. Alot of hard long hours went into it. He was also working a full time job when he did it. I do my best not to clipperburn or cut dogs. In fact I usually end up cutting my fingers if anything- not the dog. I am doing mobile because I like the way the dogs are treated. If I ever did open a salon I would still do hourly appointments for the dogs. I would offer drop offs if needed. And actually, around here there is a salon that alot of people come to me after there dogs have been cut. Like everyone has said, just ask questions and be comfortable with who you go to. My website is www.geocities.com/shampooandsnip/ . I can't figure out how to get pictures to upload to it so I have none on the site. If we could put pictures in here I would show you my van. It actually is cleaner than alot of shops may be, so I am not sure why chattylady is saying that they are dirty. Maybe it just depends on the van color or something. Mine is nice and white. I guess if I had went with dark wood it might look dirty but that doesn't mean it is. I know some of my clients talk about how dirty some shops are (mostly shops that allow smokers). In fact, one of the ladies who uses me now owns 2 cockers and at the shop she went to they kept catching kennel cough. So she uses me now because her dogs are never in contact with other animals for long periods. They were even vaccinated for it. The vet said the deal was that the lady must not be cleaning well so the virus just stays there and her dogs are very susseptible. They kept getting it every time. So it shouldn't be generalized in that way. I am sorry that the mobiles in your area are that way. Maybe it isn't all of them. I certainly hope not.

And I am not implying that all shops are dirty either. Just go where you are comfortable. There are mobiles, I imagine, who are dirty as well as shops, and mobiles who are clean and shops who are clean.

You are absolutely correct Scissorart, there is good and bad in all things, in all places and with all services. Thats why people need to be alerted to these kinds of problems and know what to look for when entrusting their precious family pet to any one, even a vet. Thanks for posting....

Chatty, you did seem to be attacking groomers, mobile and grooming shops and did seem to be generalizing. Do you honestly think that only good, honest, caring groomers will be licensed? That is as nieve as saying that every doctor that has a degree is good, caring and honest. I agree there are many, groomers out there that have no business being allowed to own a dog, let alone groom one, but that doesn't mean they can't become licensed, and that doesn't mean that we are all like that. You also didn't sound nearly as educated as you say you are. For instance, you recommended asking if your groomer will only use a hand dryer. Hand dryers are very hard to dry a dog with, groomers use stand dryers, when hand drying. That gives you 2 free hands to brush and hold the dog with.

Dogs get cut, that's an unfortunate reality, but when you use very sharp instruments on wiggling sometimes unwilling dogs, tongues stick out when your shaving faces things happen. The best groomer in the world has nicked a dog at one time or another. A piece of paper doesn't mean that accidents won't happen. I will admit to nicking the occasional dog, but I am more likely to cut myself, I probably nick a dog an average of 2 times per year. I have in all my years of grooming never caused more than a small nick, and never injured a dog that needed veterinary treatment, there are many new advances in grooming to guard against clipper burn, trimmers who's blades do not heat up, vac systems that keep blades cool, shaving wet matted dogs that also keep the blades cool. I have never clipper burned a dog because I take all precautions to avoid that.

There is nothing wrong with putting a un-heated fan on a dog in front of their cage, anymore than there is something cruel about having a fan blowing on you. They aren't stressed by it and most seem to enjoy the breeze and take the opportunity to nap, it's a lot less stressful than spending hours on a grooming table. I do it for large breeds, all others get a bathrobe or towel on after their bath to help them dry and keep them warm, then they are placed on a big fluffy towel till I dry them which is usually about 30 minutes. I have put a fan on dogs waiting for their owner and are finished if they are panting, and they seem to appriciate it. I also have a shop where I can see every dog at all times, I'd have it no other way, basically because I want to know how everyone is doing even if it is something as simple as a dog barking at their neighbor, I can move that dog so as not to stress his neighbor. I also have some elderly dogs that do occasionally have sezures, I stop what I'm doing nomatter what it is, or how busy I am, and wrap the dog in a towel, holding him or her close to me till they feel better, luckily this is a very rare occurance. I do not keep elderly dogs more than 1-2 hours, and most of my others are out within 3. They aren't stressed, I see to that, they are comfortable. I also don't do large numbers of dogs, simply because I don't want to rush, when your rushed your stressed, when your stressed accidents are more likely to happen.

Remember, ignorance breeds fear, become educated.

[ June 15, 2006, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: CanineDesign ]

CanineDesign, I was attacking the careless use of "drying cages" and the incompetent groomers using them...The dogs that died in them were not being blown with cool fan type air but heated air...thats a fact whether you want to admit it or not. You as well as the others here who have come to defend your fellow groomers may well be the best of the best and thats fine but you all know what goes on. The school I nmentioned, trained students well and they were given certificates when they graduated and they knew the correct way to handle and care for dogs. Maybe they didn't do what they were taught and maybe they did, no one knows. But groomers should be tested just like a beautician or barber is tested to get a license....
If you want to get technical which most of these people won't know or care about anyway, may I say that I own a small grooming table, 30Lx18Wx32H with arm and loop, I also have a Sunbeam standing dog hair dryer, high velocity and use a hand dryer as well at times. OKAY??? Other supplies I have managed to collect over time, Andis heavy duty clippers, Oster Cordless clippers and various size blades. Oh and a pocket trimmer. A Groomax dog clipper set for nails as well as Millers Forge Big dog clippers and Millers Forge various size shears. A flea comb, Porcupine brush, Furminator, dematting comb and undercoat brush. The incidentals consist of various special towels, Stypic powder, I like the oatmeal shampoo and also tear free baby shampoo. I hope this shows you that I know of what I speak. I was a groomer of show dogs for many years going back 35 years to be exact. I care for the animals and if a few feathers get ruffled in the process by me alerting my friends on this site with pets they love dearly then so be it. Until a couple months ago I groomed dogs at a shelter plus my own dogs and foster pets I take in, but arthritis has made that near impossible so now they are groomed in my home still, but by a friend. I think we all want the same thing here, the safety of the animals that can't speak for themselves, thats what counts. Not whether we use technical jargon or not...

[ June 15, 2006, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

Okay girls, now...now! This topic is getting as hot as the dog's cage with hot air blowing on it! Yes, we all do want the same thing, a safe environment for our pets and a good grooming job. I lost my beloved Bichon after she was nicked (as I stated in my post) from a new groomer who joined the team at the shop I had gone to for years. I have to take some of that blame. I should have insisted she be groomed by the regular groomer and not the new one. I will never forgive myself for that, but the owner should have taken some responsibility and at least mentioned the "nick". She might not have developed a staph infection and died. Nevertheless, we all love our pets. We really do have a lot in common here.

Your right Pam and I for one have added all the air, hot or otherwise I plan to. I feel I did my part by alerting our ladies. The rest is up to them... Hugs to everyone...

[ June 16, 2006, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chatty lady:
There are NO qualification to say you are a groomer, no tests they need to take, no licensing to worry about, so anyone can say they're a groomer.

Apparently.

Irresponsibility in any business can lead to injury, and even death. Media reports state it happens in daycares, home daycares, nursing homes, hospitals and the list goes on. I would be lacking in judgment if I stated that ALL handlers who enter a show ring, also have their own backyard puppy mills. But it has happened, and continues to happen.

When seeking out ANY kind of professional, you must be proactive and ask questions, tour facilities, and ask questions again. When seeking information, get ALL the facts, not just someone's biased opinion who obviously is seeking reaction and kudos only.

As you can read on this thread, there are MORE compassionate, skilled groomers in business than the minority of slum grooming shops. A little bit of incentive should easily lead you to one who cares about your pet as much as you do.

As a representative of BWS and an employee, I am going to ask that both sides of this issue take off the boxing gloves and step back for a sec...I have been asked to go over some things and I intend to do just that.

I've been a member here for almost as long as this site has been available. Here is what I have to say, and I would ask that each of you read what I post, and honor this request.

I've known Chatty thru the boards for a long time. She is a great animal lover, caregiver for the cast aways, and provider of shelter, food, and love for God's creatures. Thank God for people like her that love them so much, no matter what shape, size, or condition they are in. Given that, I do know her heart is in the right place with animal issues.

Hear me out.

While to an outsider (and I mean this in the kindest sense, such as a newbee), her initial post may have come across as generalizing and uncaring, and a tad harsh toward some Groomers of the world she has been in contact with. I truly, in my heart do not feel her intention was to label EVERY groomer as evil. I think her intention was to warn people to be cautious about certain kinds of dryers (caged?) and to please ask questions and investigate before leaving your beloved pet with strangers.

Please continue reading.

To a stranger her words may have seem sharp and maybe harsh. I can see that. She's very excitable where precious animals are concerned. Maybe she should have tempered it, maybe she should have explained better, but the bottom line is, and you can take this to the bank, she did not mean to insult the groomers of the world. I truly do not believe this. Chatty, if you did...say so NOW! And I will gladly eat crow. I've had it served every way possible, one more dish won't hurt me.

Thus the debate which has escalated and swords drawn.

I apologize to the groomers for having their professionalism and careers seemingly insulted. And I thank those have taken their time to come here and educate ALL of us. It has been an eye opener for me, and I for one appreciate the lessons about pet care. I'm not apologizing for Chatty. She will be the first to tell you she doesn't need me to speak for her.

And I'm also NOT taking sides. It's not a war. Besides, that isn't my mission or the mission of this site.

What I am doing is asking each of you to step back and know that everyone wants the same thing and it was just said differently, by each involved. We need to educate each other, thus no further misunderstandings will be in the way of ANY animal getting proper care. Isn't that the most important thing. Don't we all agree?

Now...if you've stayed with me this far, I thank you. But I have one more thing to say.

This site is for everyone. EVERY WOMAN THAT WANTS TO COME HERE. It's for sharing, caring, and encouraging. Not for bickering, fighting, and name calling.

I have the authority to delete this thread and I will if it continues down the path it has taken.

I welcome the women who have come here today and given valuable input. I do hope you'll stay, and I encourage you to do so, if for no other reason than to get to know everybody here. We are a really nice bunch of boomer women and there are so many animal lovers here, but I don't think I need to convince you of that...eh?

If I didn't believe what I've said, I would never have written it. I would have let you all have at it.

It's time for this thread to be creative...and that doesn't mean come up with new ways to insult one another. It means to apologize, shake hands (sort of) and start over.

Our mission statement is plain and it hasn't changed. We want healing, frienships, and love to be the only thing that gets passed around here.

If I have offended anyone...Chatty....or the groomers, I will gladly apologize and do so immediately.

We have one rule around here...it's Golden.

Nuff said.

JJ