Smile's comments are soo true. That's why, when a husband is cheating, I say get out of the relationship and let them have the "other" full time. They want the little wife to fight for them, it's great for their ego and feeds the illicit affair. When they get what they think they want, they don't want it anymore.

Daisygirl

AMEN to that Daisygirl and you and Smile are absolutely right....My ex had to be in the strip clubs all the time and since I kicked him to the curb he doesn't go at all anymore and is constatly trying to get me to take him back, its his life ambition I think. Why do these jokers always want what they can't have? He had me once and screwed it up, I learned my lesson now he had better learn his and hit the rode...

Please don't think less of me for it but---there's a lot to be said for size. It IS important to me, that and performance.

"Why would people even bother to get married in this situation?"

This is a REAL good question, Ladybug and one I constantly try to figure out. Why would any woman put herself in that situation? Or man, for that matter? "Open marriage" is ridiculous. If you're going to sleep around with other people and still want to live with someone, fine (just be careful because there's a lot of creeping crud out there), but don't pretty it up and call it "marriage," because it ain't. I don't think my friend appreciated my comments about it, though I couched it in very diplomatic terms -- as in "this is my opinion only, and it wouldn't work for me . . . " But I was shocked at this revelation, because I thought my friend and her husband were VERY devoted to one another. Ah, well. No truth in advertising, I guess.

Also, Number5, LOL, and no offense, but size doesn't mean a whole lot if he doesn't know what to do with it :-).

Chatty's right, too -- guys are so invested in "how big" and "was it good for you?" Score a couple of points with my hubby, is that he never felt he had to go the "macho route" and boast about either size or his "skills."

I know, under the category of "TMI," I'm going to sign off . . .

Also, commenting on suzieq, you're absolutely right. A lot of times, when a guy is cheating (whether by viewing porn or the real thing), it's a signal that there are things wrong with BOTH sides of a relationship.

In my situation, it wasn't the porn that bothered me so much, though it wasn't real great for my ego -- it was the secrecy and the fact that he also accessed on-line dating services. It means he's not getting something from the marriage, but knowing him as I do, I was stunned he didn't feel he could come to me and talk about it.

My problem with my husband's viewing porn AND the online dating services is that it was done "in lieu of" rather than "as an adjunct to," if you get my meaning.

Am I saying I'm the innocent victim in this? Not at all. Am I blameless? Heck no. There are issues on both sides of our marriage that need to be dealt with, and not just in the bedroom.

So in this case, the porn is being used because my guy is dealing with issues other than curiosity of what else is out there. What are those issues? I don't know, though I can guess after 18+ years of marriage. I'm hoping couples counseling will help us both sort them out.

But this isn't the case for everyone, as this and other Web sites demonstrate. Certain men can have the sweetest, most loving, most understanding wives around who are always there for them and they STILL stray.

There are certain men out there who should just never be married because, for whatever their reasons, they're emotionally incapable of committing to one person. It doesn't matter how understanding the woman is in such situations, these guys feel tied to the "ball and chain." This is where these so-called "open marriages" come from.

And to show that I'm equal about this, there are certain women who should never be married, too. Problem is, society puts such a premium on "wedded bliss," that even those who shouldn't be married GET married because their family and friends wonder "what's wrong with them" if they don't.

Finally, of course women lust after men in tight jeans and open shirts and so forth. I don't know of any woman who doesn't appreciate a nice pair of buns, if you pardon the crudity. But again, if it's used "in lieu of," then there are problems, again on both sides.

I wonder who is the puppeteer pulling suzieq's strings?? Dance puppet, dance!!!

Wordsmith yes some women may appreciate a nice pair of jeans filled out well, but women as a rule DO NOT rush off to the internet or the phone sex SLUTS (oops, slander) as puppet susieq calls us and indulge themselves. There is no comparison between innocent looking and acting out...These men rarely have anyone to blame least of all their loving, giving, vow keeping wives...and I am suspect of anyone that says they do....think about it!

[ February 20, 2006, 11:32 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]

i'm missing something...... how do the words 'puppet', 'puppeteer' and 'dance puppet dance' apply to any of this discussion? Do some people believe only those in desperate financial situations become sex trade workers?
Do some think phone sex not part of the sex trade? Or is it that we are now suppose to use the term 'sex trade worker' for those in the business?

[ February 21, 2006, 05:12 AM: Message edited by: norma ]

Suzieq, etal,
I agree with most of what you've said as far as the problem with infidelity being equally distributed with equal responsibility, but I do have a problem with one thing you said.

Just because a woman is post menopausal, doesn't mean she is "dried up". I'm post menopausal and have the sex drive of a 20 yr. old. Everything works just fine. I enjoy sex very much and have never been attracted to the guys portrayed in porno films. I've seen many of them and am totally unimpressed with rippling abs.

There is a very small window of attraction for me and it includes a man at least 6' tall, balding, with glasses, facial hair (beard & moustache) and hair on his chest. To my taste a man like that is a real 'hottie', Add to that a tough, strong personality combined with the tenderness of a child and the capacity to love unconditionally with a good sense of humor and I'm on board.

People are all different, at different ages, different times of their lives, we're all fearfully and wonderfully made. We're way too uptight about our sexuality. There are very few restrictiions regarding sex: keep it between one man and one woman in marriage under God's blessing and don't refuse one another unless its for spiritual reflection and treat each other as Christ treated the Church and was willing to die for it. Commit to make it last and respect each other. It ain't that hard folks.

Okay, now that the can of worms is officially opened and writing around on the floor . . . :-)

Chatty -- you're right. Most women will not rush out onto the Internet to "get their rocks off." But consider this: There is a rise in "erotica" romance books, and there is a reason for this. The primary market for these books is -- women. Women like to indulge in their sexual fantasies as much as men do, otherwise these romances wouldn't be multi-million dollar sellers. With an erotica romance, women believe they're getting a little plot with their bedroom heat.

And yes, some men are threatened by this -- because they can't live up to the images of the perfect hero portrayed in these books.

Is there a difference between women who read romances with heat and men who actively view porn and cheat on their wives by going to strip clubs or having affairs? Of course. But let's face it -- BOTH sexes enjoy looking and reading and fantasizing. It's how they react to it that can create problems.

I'm going to sound like a broken record here -- if any sexual media -- porn, romance novels, pictures, etc., are used as a substitute, rather than as an adjunct to, there are problems wih the relationship.

A woman who bemoans the fact that her husband isn't the rippling-muscled Adonis portrayed in a romance novel and, as a result, can't respond to her husband's loving overtures is, in many ways, as deluded as the man who gets aroused by porn but can't sustain much for his wife.

The whole gist of my theory is that when this happens, there are issues other than what goes on in the bedroom when things get to that point.

BTW, Number5, I loved your comments, thank you. "Attraction" is defined not necessarily by physical types, but how you phrased it -- unconditional love, a good sense of humor and tenderness. Nor does menopause mean "dried up" in a woman. I'm perimenopausal, yet still enjoy what goes on in the bedroom, probably even moreso than when I was in my 20s. While my guy is not a "hottie" in the conventional sense, I have always been attracted to him.

Norma apparently several posts that were made here yesterday, the really nasty mud slinging, name calling ones against not just me but ALL WOMEN in general and BLAMING THEM for their husbands cheating on them, hateful reasons that were ridiculous. Those posts have since been deleted by the person who posted them and thats why what I said about a puppet and her puppetier didn't make sense to anyone who missed those now deleted insulting posts. I know whats going on and they know I know...I know who you are puppetier and I'm watching you....

[ February 21, 2006, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: chatty lady ]