I think there are degrees...As with most things. And I have always been one to just let things go, even when I maybe shouldn't have. But this latest thing has me stumped....I guess when it involves your children, boy that's getting you where it really hurts! If you can truly forgive someone for hurting your child, you must have the forgiveness thing down pat. So I'm still struggling with this too, Diane.

I suspect you need to define forgiveness for yourself. In my mind it is detaching from resentment, anger and other negative emotions about the person -- a letting go of the incident.

My dictionary defines trust as a "firm reliance on the integrity, ability or character of a person or thing." It seems to me that that is a very different thing from forgiveness. If you know that someone has a drug or alcohol addiction which is out of control and they are very hurtful to you, you can forgive them because it is truly the "drug" talking. But, until they get help, there is no use trusting them because lying and manipulation are a large part of the disease.

Does that help?

I think that is up to the individual to answer. Do you still habor ill feelings toward them? If so, you haven't forgiven them.

In my humble opinion, I think forgiving them is turning loose of the ill feelings you have when you are around them, talk to them, or even think of them and the preceived harm they've done to you.

As stated, once you have forgiven them, you can still offer kindness to them, and NOT have bad thoughts regarding them. At the same time, I agree with holding them at arm's length.

Or as so apply put...don't get in the cage.

JJ

Amen to that JJ....one doesn't necessarily percipitate the other.

This is still a problem for me.

I don't think trust is the same as a foregiveness issue. I would still trust this person with my life, but sadly, not with my child's. Which is pretty weird. I know she would save my life, but didn't go the distance to make my child feel wanted enough.....So, my child being the extension of myself, then what????????

Confused, Searcher

God forgives our sins when we confess them to him, not before, and ask him for forgiveness. Then he "throws them into the sea of forgetfulness" never to be remembered again.

I'm not there yet. I can forgive you if you ask for my forgiveness and seem to truly regret your wrong to me. I can't forget about it though because I'm not God.

I can forgive you from afar which releases me from the bitterness of resentment without your knowing it. That releases me, but not you. You still "owe" me an apology but at that point, its between you and God not me and you.

It seems a wrong involves three people, you, the person who wronged you and God. Your responsibility for your own well being seems to be your releasing that person from responsibility for having wronged you. Like releasing them from a debt owed you. Then its up to them from there to complete the cycle.

This is an interesting subject. Perhaps I can help a little. I've read back over some of the entries for the last couple of days. Searcher, forgiveness is a choice. And it is a choice that you may have to contineu to make literally minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, until you have finally truly been aable to release it.

When my husband ran off with another woman and later returned and wanted to restore our marriage, it wasn't all romance and goosebumps--on the contrary, for me it was a minute by minute battle as I had to forgive him, over and over and over again. As images would spring into my mind or as thoughts would drop into my head I would have to take control over them and again pray and declare to God that I forgave him. It was a process that took several months, and over the years there were times when I would have to go back and forgive again as an old thought would drop into my mind seemingly out of no where.

Just because you have forgiven someone doesn't necessarily mean you need to restore the relationship. No all relationships are healthy, but I wouldn't make that decision until after you are sure you have completed the process--until that time your emotions may be tainted.

Always remember that with God there is always a 'bigger picture' Some other thing or things that He is desiring to do in you and through you. You may not be able to see it and its possible you won't even lnow it in this lifetime, but there is always a bigger plan.

The Bible clearly states that unless we forgive, we are not forgiven. the Bible says to renew your mind and to think on the good things. The Bible also says that harboring unforgiveness can lead to other destructive emotions like anger and bitterness--and these emotions if left unchecked can literally make you sick--causing all kinds of illnesses. So it is in your best interests to press on and keep working at this.

But if you are like me, it doesn't just happen when you pray one time--it is an ongoing struggle--but that's OK, its part of the process (part of your 'bigger plan' that God is working on) And perhaps if you can focus on that it will make the trip a little easier.

This is an interesting subject. Perhaps I can help a little. I've read back over some of the entries for the last couple of days. Searcher, forgiveness is a choice. And it is a choice that you may have to continue to make literally minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, until you have finally truly been able to release it.

When my husband ran off with another woman and later returned and wanted to restore our marriage, it wasn't all romance and goosebumps--on the contrary, for me it was a minute by minute battle as I had to forgive him, over and over and over again. As images would spring into my mind or as thoughts would drop into my head I would have to take control over them and again pray and declare to God that I forgave him. It was a process that took several months, and over the years there were times when I would have to go back and forgive again as an old thought would drop into my mind seemingly out of no where.

Just because you have forgiven someone doesn't necessarily mean you need to restore the relationship. Not all relationships are healthy, but I wouldn't make that decision until after you are sure you have completed the process--until that time your emotions may be tainted.

Always remember that with God there is always a 'bigger picture' Some other thing or things that He is desiring to do in you and through you. You may not be able to see it and its possible you won't even lnow it in this lifetime, but there is always a bigger plan.

The Bible clearly states that unless we forgive, we are not forgiven. the Bible says to renew your mind and to think on the good things. The Bible also says that harboring unforgiveness can lead to other destructive emotions like anger and bitterness--and these emotions if left unchecked can literally make you sick--causing all kinds of illnesses. So it is in your best interests to press on and keep working at this.

But if you are like me, it doesn't just happen when you pray one time--it is an ongoing struggle--but that's OK, its part of the process (part of your 'bigger plan' that God is working on) And perhaps if you can focus on that it will make the trip a little easier.

#5 For purposes of discussion, have you considered the distinction between 'confessing' and 'repenting' as it relates to forgiveness and trust?'

Confession comes from words that mean 'to acknowledge or accept responsibility' thus we can confess/acknowledge our wrong doing and be forgiven, but unless we "repent" which comes from words meaning 'to turn from,' we cannot again be trusted and we will suffer the consequence of our actions.

In numerous places in the Bible, people and nations refused to "repent" and were punished.

smile

that's an excellent observation Smile .... while i may confess to beating your daughter, or stealing your car, it sure doesn't mean, i can now be trusted.....

starting over... i can cerainly identify with your words .... certain memories come back...
and it seems i have to start a point one all over ... even though i was certain that particular bridge had been crossed over ....

<small>[ March 13, 2006, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: norma ]</small>