Before I got married, Ross and I had to meet with the priest several times for counseling. It was in 1979 and the priest who married us was fairly liberal. Since we didn't want to go through the classes (because we had both drifted form our faith) he was nice enough to let us meet with him one-on-one. This may have made some people squirmish but he was a family friend and we liked him.

Each time we met he had another topic for us to discuss. There are lots of things I can't remember from 25 years ago, but most of what he said...stuck!

The first and biggest topic was communication. He shared that any time he met with people who were struggling to stay together (and did because they were Catholic) their biggest downfall was not letting the other person know how they truly felt.

Well, my poor husband. I took that and ran with it and still do! Fortunately through the years we have talked lots. He knows most of my thoughts, more than any other person on the face of the earth. I really believe it was wise advice. I'll share some of the other things we discussed too in future posts.

Just curious to know what others had to do in the way of guidance from the church before marriage. Anything?

My husband and I barely knew each other when we married. We had met only 3 weeks before and I was out of town on vacation one of those weeks.

The day before we eloped, we called the church to talk to a pastoral counselor. She called back the next day, but we were already in the car on the way to be married. Too late!!

When we saw the pastoral counselor in church later we thanked her for responding too late.
We've both said if we had talked to her or anyone else or given our marriage even a second thought neither of us would have done it.

And what a blessing we would have missed.

smile

OUr classes fro the church where huge. There were more than 100 people there. All we did was sit and listen to letures for four Saturday mornings. It was a waist. I've learned more from watching the mistakes and successes of other couples.

Hi,
Our priest counseled us privately too. He also talked about communication and communication about money matters. That has helped our marriage survive too.
Thanks,
Maggie

I'm sure no expert here, but I'm not sure there is a key to a lasting marriage. I see people who have long courtships and long engagements and then get married and about half fail. I see people who just meet and get married and about half fail. I see people who get counseling and then get married and half fail. About half with well laid plan fail. About half with no plans at all fail. Couples who are great friends marry and half fail. People who are much alike get married and half fail. People who are much diferent get married and half fail. Does anyone see a pattern here???

I believe communication is the key, but it seems to me that when couples stop communicating (not necessarily verbally, but in all ways) it's already too late. Communication breaks down because someone is hiding something and secrets mean the marriage is already beginning to disentigrate.

I really think people stay married even in bad relationships until either in fantasy or in reality, someone else comes along to break the bond. Then the partner who has another person in his mind or in his life has something to hide and is forced by guilt to cut off communication.

But then do I look like an expert?? Not!!

smile

[ January 08, 2004, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

I sure can't figure it out either. I just think it's sad when one person is willing to work at a marriage and really want in and their spouse doesn't believe in getting help.

That makes me so mad!

Also, just thought I'd add that I think selfishness is the root of many divorces. I alwys tell my kids that you can't be married and be selfish. It won't work. Any thoughts?

Dotsie,

I think you are right about selfishness being the source of failure in marriage (as well as a lot of other things). I see that 'other' person entering the picture either as a fantasy or as a reality as 100% selfish. But then I suppose we all have at least some degree of selfishness in us and seems like hormones can completely screw up any unselfish intention.

Also, seems like some people have an excess of selfishness to the point of narcissism to begin with. I suppose the truly narcissistic ones would be incapable of loving anyone except themselves and might be unfaithful from the first.

I see a lot of selfishness to the point of narcissism in drug abusers (including legal, illegal and prescribed). A friend who is an addict said to me once, "No matter how much I love someone, my drug will always come first. And even when I'm making love to someone, I only think of myself and in my mind somewhere, I'm always dreaming of my next hit."

I also see people who appear to be incredibly unselfish for a long period of time then suddenly snap and wind up in a flaming affair or on drugs or something.

There seems to be no way to analyze or predict love. I guess there is simply no pattern for it. Seems more like an art than a craft. As an art object, each relationship is one of a kind and cannot be reproduced whereas a craft comes from a a pattern and skill is realized in reproduction.

Just thoughts.

smile

Sometimes I think it's okay to be slefish. I think one of the biggest problems I see with some relationships is when one person relies on the other for their every need. Even if the person is the love of your life, they cannot be there for you all the time. Your significant other cannot be your best friend, lover, comforter, etc.. 24/7. That is too much to ask of anyone, even the person you are married to. Yes they need to know what your needs are, but sometimes the other person has to be selfish and say I know you want someone to hang out with me right now, but I need some alone time. This comes down to communication again, but the right kind. Sometimes I think when people try to communicate too much, they end up digging themsleves an even bigger hole.

WoW! What a heavy subject you guys!

I called in "Happy" today so I'm at home catching up on the 'board talk.'

I'll offer my input, for what it's worth. We've been married for 25 years this year. We went to some counseling for several weeks before with a new minister at a church I had attended. Not a member, but had attended and I liked this man. The sessions had a lot of one-on-one discussion and counseling, and a lot of questionnaires that proved dialogue, as I remember. I think that it gave us some awareness, moreso than what we had.

And probably, having a hint of my husband's problematic past, it might have been wise not to go through with it - but we did. And for some reason, even in troubled times, we have done some part of flourishing.

I don't think we stay married because I'm waiting for someone to rescue me, and we didn't stay, even in the bad times, because we were/are too lazy or 'asleep at the wheel'.

For some unknown reason, that is amazing to me sometimes, we have a connection and an unspoken bond. It's just never been an option to us to leave, or look outside our marriage for intimacy. I have always had a lot of friends, men and women, and (though this sounds clinical) they serve different purposes. Some are my confidants, the people whom I vent to; some are mentor sorts of people (sounds like I have a gazillion, huh?); some are people I do things with socially; or my music friends or my movie girls. I've got a few guy friends at work whom I adore and I've had guy friends all along and amazingly, my husband has never had a problem with it. Well, pretty much not. But there again, we communicate fairly well. It's only when the drug thing pops up that we have a problem. But as far as marriage, we keep that isolated I think. Because the whole rest of it works well.

But then you wonder....so does it REALLY work as well as you think? Well, I look at my children and they're happy, unselfish, grateful, funny and well-spoken children. People say that coming to our house is peaceful. I've got a couple of friends whose opinions I respect very much and they think we're awesome, which I think is SO, SO funny, because I think we're just regular.

OH, I think I just got the answer! Don't be on your best behavior! If someone loves you when they've seen you at your most horrible, whatever that is to you... and they love you in spite of whatever venom spews from your mouth when you're angry, or that they had to hold your head over the toilet all night, or had to deal with your dog getting sick in their car and then tearing the seats up...and they love you because you're funny, or serious or organized (or not!) and they truly enjoy you because you're you......well heck... now that I'm thinking about it......how do you ever know that?

After the Laci Peterson thing.....I just don't know anymore. She thought he adored her and so did her parents. Personally, when he showed up at the little restaurant with bouquets of flowers for both of them I would have been suspicious, but that's just the way I'm built. And he's kind of an ass anyway. But he looked the part. Who knows what happened...

So - all that said...

How DO you know if you really KNOW someone....all I know is that it's an intuitive feeling. But some people have good intuitive sense and some don't. I don't know HOW you get it. I don't think it's a learned thing. I think it's almost like another sense. This could be an interesting topic... intuition....maybe.