Norma, I wasn't joking about the socialism thing.

I understand that some people think it is the government's job to help everyone because our fellow man may be too selfish to do it. That is not how life is supposed to be. We shouldn't force people to give away their money, time, resources. You see when something devastating happens, people naturally give to others.
Let me ask you this...suppose you have two nice vehicles that you bought with your hard earned money. Your neighbor doesn't have one. What if someone from your government knocked on your door and demanded you give one of yours to your neighbor? That's basically what welfare and other entitlements are. I'm not saying not to help people out temporarily to get them back on their feet. That's what these social programs started out as. But they have become a way of life for people and there hasn't been an incentive to get people off these programs.

[ November 19, 2005, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Bluebird ]

so Blue, are you saying 'socialism' is a form of government that 'forces' people to give up money to help others ?

Daisy.. you said "In addition anyone no matter who, can pull themselves up by the bootstraps and make a better life for themselves, Many people do"

So, 'anyone', for example, the battered wife, those laid off when a company closes, those facing serious illness within their family etc. can just pull themselves up by the bootstraps.

I bet your heart says no, that is not always possible, certain government social programs are essential.

Well Norma, a Socialist government takes it out and calls it a tax. That's why I think our gov't has gone that way. Bush has been trying to cut our taxes. When people are less burdened with taxes, they tend to be more geneous in helping others, anyway. The gov't. wastes our money.
Gov't programs have become essential because the churches stopped doing many things to help others. Of course we need programs to help people who need it but it should be a temporary solution. And of course, if people treated each other properly, we wouldn't need so many of these programs.

I think a society should care for the mentally ill, physically ill, orphans and the elderly. Our govt. does provide for these people, although certainly some may fall through the cracks. We also have unemployment for those who lose their jobs. But it is up to me to make sure I have money put away for emergencies such as a job loss or illness and if I don't, I have to pay the consequences. I am responsible for myself plus I and my countrymen/women are responsible for people for the reasons stated above. However, I am not responsible for people who do not want to work or choose addiction as a way of life. When a society provides for people who are capable of providing for themselves, they will never even try.

Some leaders want the people to be dependent on them because that gives them the power and the votes. That's why some polititians like programs that allow people to take it easy.

Daisygirl

[ November 19, 2005, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: Daisygirl ]

Thank you Bluebird, Daisy, Unique for your replies ... it would be best to say no more on this subject, but we do have many common beliefs.

I know some people will exploit, abuse, take advantage of 'safety net' programs. But by the same token i realize not all decisions made by business owners, goverment officials, judicial officials and religious officials are honest, ethical and just. I think the potential for good and evil is within many of us, regardless of the circumstances.

Unique, you mentioned the UN .. in grade 12,
i had the privilege of going to the UN with a group of other students. The trip sparked an ongoing interest in what happens there.

It ticks me off that certain countries have the gall to send representatives to the UN and expect the right to voice their opinion, raise objections, sign resolutions etc etc and vote, while at the same time denying their own citizens at home these rights.

For example, why should Saudi Arabia have a voice or vote in the UN when they don't give half their population the right to vote? Much less drive a car. I think UN membership should be limited to those nations who practice what they preach.

You mention isolationist policies Unique, i dont know what that really entails.....
Does it mean not getting drawn into the wars
and internal matters of other nations only
or does it include no ownership of primary resources in the land of others?

maybe we should close this subject, i dont want to offend.

All we have to do is look at what is going on in Paris and the surrounding area to see that certain programs just don't work. Let's pray it doesn't begin here.

Dianne, how is your sister who lives in Paris?

Hi there everyone,

Wow I just know now why I get along with all of you so much. I feel the same as the majority, I feel sorry for New Yorkers for having Hitlery, Ooops I mean Hillary as thier senator.

I have lived in two socialist countries and I have to say, I am so glad to be here. Yes, while there is a false sense of security of "being taken care of", there is also less freedom. No way, I like it here better.

As for the medicine, well, let me tell you what I experienced 10 years ago. I went to Athens to take care of my Grandmother while she was undergoing radiation for her bladder cancer. I am so grateful that I was able to go there. I had to do pretty much all the work. I am surprised the nurse didn't give me the syringe in order to give my Grandmother her shots. I had to buy the toilet paper, buy some towels, etc... There was one nurse that was kind enough to fluff her pillows, and take her temperature. I found out why when my Grandmother slipped her a couple of thousand drachmas (about $5.00). Oh and did I mention that all the nurses left after 6PM and the only other options you have for the night is, either you stay or hire a private nurse. Yea, I am glad I am here.

BTW, my aunt was unemployed last year and she needed major surgery. We have a charity hospital near us and that is where she had this done. This was free and amazingly enough, during President Bush's term. But of course, you will never hear of this type of thing in our media. You know, the media that thought Dollar Bill Ooops, I mean Bill Clinton was a god (small g) himself. So yes, we take care of our people here too that need it.

Glad to see all of you, I've been out of the loop for awhile, long story!

Cheers,
Cathi

[ November 20, 2005, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: Optimumsteps ]