Now, I have remained silent
long enough . Dotsie closed the the thread out for a reason and that was her decision alone . When asked my Number5 what the topic was about Chatty in a nice calm way chose not to bring the subject up again full knowing what would happen. Now , DJ you brought the subject up and gave your opinion and all well and good , but sometime in this century this has to come to and end.

I have not read anywhere there is backbiting to anyone . So, lets call it a night on this subject and find something else to talk about This is getting old very quickly .

Amen.

Just a reminder about the purpose of these forums:

"A place to share from the heart and connect with other women."

Perhpas it's hard to connect with someone of opposing views, but we need to treat others the way we want to be treated.

"A place to share stories, give and receive advice and make new friends."

Are we trying to make new friends when we post?

I am and I hope you will too.

(Disclaimer: The following are my thoughts, opinions and beliefs and not meant in any way to disrespect anyone, but to encourage thoughtful, loving communication about ideas. Take what you like and leave the rest.)

I found myself thinking about this thread as I woke up this morning. Back in the late 1970s, I taught junior high school on the Blackfeet Indian Reservation in Montana. Around the holidays, we English teachers banded together to use the various holiday symbols (such as the tree) to teach symbolism. Although there was a large Christian element on the reservation, there was also a strong native element and we walked a fine line between the two. (Northern Montana was settled by white people later than many places -- I knew people who remembered seeing their first white man.)

American began in part because of a desire of some to have religious freedom; to live in a place that had no state religion. That's why we don't have one. Based on the way our government documents were written, our founders believed in God, at least nominally.

Has the separation of church and state gone too far? Perhaps, but I don't believe it has in terms of separation of religious tenats from schools. However, a new religion has crept into our schools, and the powerful teachings of religions is gone. That new religion is materialism.

It's ironic, isn't it, that we allow our schools to have commerican support in the form of vending machines, piped in news (with commercials), logos on all types of school paraphenalia, but forbid the mention of God? We teach our children to be good little employee widgets by force-feeding them testing material and forget to have broad discussions on treating your fellow being as you would have yourself treated, and loving something bigger than yourself.

These are my thoughts from my heart and I would be interested in loving responses from others on them. I'm very concerned about our world and our children.

Casey, you make a very good point. As a Christian, I would rather have my children taught religion or at have it at least discussed in the classroom. But what if their teacher was of a faith that I didn't believe in? I wouldn't want any religion but my own taught to my child, although I would certainly like him to learn about other religions. It sure is a fine line between preaching and teaching.

I agree that we have taken things to far - thanks to the ACLU.

Daisygirl

There are always people who will take things too far. And lawyers who will encourage them to do so -- for a fee, of course. We've become a litigenous society in many ways.

The schools do try to teach the kids to be loving, compassionate human beings. But the teachers have a lot of limits set on them. There are the parents who scream that we are teaching their kids the wrong values; there are the ones who aren't teaching them any values at all. And the ones who will sue the school district at the drop of a hat for all sorts of reasons. As Daiygirl said, things can go much too far.

I agree that children should be taught about all sorts of religions. But I'm not sure the public schools are the place that should be done.

My dream is still that everyone will someday live in harmony --- all faiths, all creeds, all cultures. Despite everything, I remain an optimist.

Daisy, I feel about sex ed. as you do about teaching religion/humanism in the schools except I'm pretty convinced that I don't want sex ed in schools at all. I never wanted my children to learn about sex without also learning its moral value and I didn't want them to learn about it from someone whose values or even sexual orientation I didn't know or trust.

I once taught sex ed for a very short time and went through the training program for teachers. Sex ed material at that time consisted primarily of a cartoon video illustration of heterosexual intercourse. I felt it dehumanized the sex act. And it seemed to me that some of the teachers actually enjoyed the graphic discussion of sex in the classroom becaue of the way it stole the sexual innocence of children.

I think our world has given higher value to education than to innocence and once lost innocence cannot be restored except through the redemption of Christ's blood.

I hear they are now including other types of sexual orientation as a part of sex ed. That seems a further corruption of our children's innocence and I fear for my grandchildren.

Anyone else have opinions about sex ed in schools?

smile

[ January 26, 2006, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

Well, I suspect that sex ed is another potentially explosive issue. I'll try to be careful, but again I want to treat all with respect, yet express my opinion.

I agree that sex ed needs to include a component that discusses the emotional aspect, as well as respect for the other person in the act. I have vivid memories of a sit-com with Burt Reynolds (can't remember the name). One of the side characters got roped into teaching sex ed and was very embarrassed. But then he came out with an impassioned speech. He said that sex begins in our heads and that is where we need to decide what we do with it. He talked about the importance of respecting ourselves and others. I'm not doing it justice.

I feel that we do need to have sex ed in schools, but with that component. I get edgy around the words "moral values," because it too frequently means something that I don't agree with.

As far as other types of sexual orientation, I think it should be an "optional" part of sex ed, out of respect for those who have issues with homosexuality and other variations. I don't, particularly and embrace my child knowing that other types of sexual orientation exist and that people who practice this are loving, spiritual human beings.

Innocence can be a whole topic unto itself. Short of putting a child in a bubble and never letting him/her talk to anyone or watch television, or go anywhere, I'm not sure you can keep them "innocent." I'd rather be the imparter of knowledge they are going to get anyway, although I undestand the perspective that some people feel there are topics best left to teachers and parents.

I do have to, respectfully, note that I don't agree with the statement "once lost innocence cannot be restored except through the redemption of Christ's blood." I do, however, applaud you for sharing your belief. Thank you.

Peace to all

There is a saying that could be answer both the religious issue and the sex issue and that saying is:

If you think Education Is Expensive/Dangerous,
Imagine The Price of Ignorance....

Casey and Smile you both have valid points but would you not agree that the best place for our children to learn about these topics is at home from their parents or parent? The schools are better than the streets or the internet. I began teaching my boys at a very young age about many things, these two topics among them and I felt they were equipped to listen to anyone elses theorys and still have the basic knowledge to listen, absorb and believe what they would believe. But 'WE' as parents must be the base, the rock they can hold onto that teaches them what we believe. My son has always done this with my grandchildren as well. Too many parents are passing the buck to the schools and then as NHJackie says, they jump up and down, rant and rave and want to sue somebody when the teachers do their jobs. Our childrens innocence will be taken away one way or another, hopefully our own teachings will make this a simple, gentle passing into adulthood. Teach values on everything important at home this will help them not to fall prey to wrongful teachings they are bound to hear out in the world. Just a thought!

I don't know if I mentioned that I'm a retired school teacher, which admittedly gives me a different slant on things than someone who has approached education just from a parents point of view. I've yet to meet a teacher who didn't respect the values of the parents whose children they teach. The problem is that so many parents have different values that you end up not pleasing anyone. It's a no win situation, one I'm happy not to have to deal with anymore.

Chatty, I agree with you that parents should be the 'base.' What a wonderful way to put that! I, too, talked to my boys from early on. It didn't always help and there have been some very rough times, but I know that they have a solid foundation to which to return.

And I sympathize with the teacher's plights. We really have asked them to go beyond what teachers were originally supposed to do, and it does seem to be a "no-win" situation. I've met more teachers who are happy to be done lately and that's really sad. They really try.

But after all that is said and done, what happens to the kids who don't have a good base? I don't particularly have an answer, but feel that we, as a community, must have something for them, or promote a place where they can get the "facts" and a loving personal presence (not the internet or the street).