Number5, your truth is not mine, and saying that your truth is valid and mine is not is a statement of complete intolerance and arrogance.

flipperjo, no one is asking you to give up your traditions.

My ancestors came here to become Americans. They did not come here to become Christians. This country was founded on the principle of freedom from religious tyranny.

Meredithbead, you are so right, I couldn't agree with you more. But just as Israel belongs to the Jews, no matter what happens wars, etc., Biblically, the country of Israel will always belong to the Jews and not the Palestinians because God gave it to them.
That is a fact. There are certain facts that can't be ignored or diluted. It is true that this continent was inhabited by Native Americans when we came here. One only has to read the Bible to understand though that it isn't just about warm fuzzies. Certain things were predestined. Those seeking religious freedom were allowed to come to these shores and claim this land as their own. The reason they were allowed to do that is because their religion didn't worship nature but was the husbandman of nature. The persons who came here worshipped God who created nature. They certainly weren't perfect beings but neither were the native inhabitants...
That's where things have gone wrong, people have begun to worship the creation rather than the creator.
That has always gotten us in trouble.
I'm not a religious person and I don't pretend to have all the answers, but there are a few very basic things that I am completely aware of and know without a doubt that have no leeway or wiggle room.
Situations or feelings don't even come into play when there are absolutes.
Ironically, my dad fought for the freedom of all persons to worship or not whomever they please. I would fight for that too. What I want for myself is the freedom to say, "I am a Christian and I celebrate Christmas and will have my nativity scene in my community and in my home."
Many things offend me but I'm willing to share space in this country with anyone whether or not they agree with me. It is when anything remotely looking or sounding Christian is stampeded and snuffed out when in a public arena whereas Kwans**or any other ritual is sweetly welcomed.
Religious freedom doesn't mean the absence of religion.
I think what offends others about Christianity is that those who are believers know who it is that they worship and that he is an absolute being who deals in absolutes. He is a Holy God and can't go back on his word or wink his eye. He is NOT an enabler in the least but enforces his laws in a loving way. The most loving way. Science gradually catches up to the truth's of God's Word, for those who need proof.
I'm sorry if my words offend you. You seem like a very nice lady. Christ, himself, said that the Cross would be a stumbling block for some and that his believers would be hated for their knowledge. Its not arrogance, it is certainty and peace that comes from knowing the eternal boundaries set by the creator of my own body and the world in which I live.
Its OK with me if you don't agree with me. That's your right and privilege.
I guess at the end of time, everyone will see who was right.

PS. and being right is vitally important when your eternal destination is at stake......forgive me but I take that very seriously.

Be careful. We have several Jewish women on this list, and if you didn't offend the others, you offended me just now. Believe what you want, but don't try to force it on others.

NH JACKIE, Again, I am sorry I offended you. I am going to end my comments as I think I covered the topic from my point of view pretty thoroughly without going into any more detail.
I wouldn't think of interrupting anyone else's determination to travel their own path whether I deem it to be destructive or beneficial. What I believe isn't for everyone. I'm just thankful its for me.
I don't care that you think I'm "pushing my beliefs" on anyone, sorry. I'm not, because what you believe is your own karma or fate. I wouldn't think of interferring with that.
Again, sorry to anyone or all, if I offended you. This is a forum of opinions and beliefs, right?? or am I mistaken....
I was offended in an earlier post by someone and I wasn't going to post anymore on this site. See, you're not the only one who get her dander up.
But I realized we are all just human and entitled to our mistakes along with our victories. I'm happy with what I believe, you might even say, ecstatic so lets just leave it at that and go on to other topics.....

And maybe confine our religious discussions to the appropriate forums? BTW, I've never to my knowledge, I've never offended anyone here by anything I said.

To be honest, I'm starting to feel uncomfortable with what I preceive as intolerance in some of the posts, both religious and personal. Giving constructive advice is one thing. Being nasty is quite another. We should probably think a little harder before we press that send button.

Smile,
My own grandmother was Black Foot. Hunted elk until she was too elderly to ride on horseback then she cooked at the camp.
My heart is with the Native American. My apologies if I touched a nerve but glad you had the opportunity to "vent".
Smile, smile.....its all good as they say. Doesn't change my mind or my beliefs...but I won't discuss anything that volitile out of respect for your fragile emotions.

I was not venting. I am stating fact, not expressing emotion.

That those beliefs were used as justification for genocide is history. That people continue to use them as justification for evil purposes is fact. That they are corruption of Scripture certainly appears to be fact.

To continue to believe them is an individual moral decision. Morality is demonstrated by actions, not emotions.

smile

[ January 23, 2006, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

Lets remember that this site was started by a kind, loving, Christian woman who wanted something special, a place women could come and feel safe and vent their worries, anger and hopefully the good things in their lives. We have many threads and for the most part all the women here respect this Forum but unfortunately there are those that would slink in trying to use this site to irritate, to insult and to aggitate. Luckily the last thread that went against all this Forum stands for was eliminated. I for one hope we can get on with the business of being sisters, of respecting one another, of showing we are better than the trouble makers and slanderers that frequent othe volitale sites. Sometimes it is necessary to use common sense before beginning a thread that serves no purpose but to hurt and possibly insult others. I will have no part of this and pray no one of intelligence will either. We are all of different races, religions, backgrounds and cultures. Respect all the others even when they do not respect yours. Hard to do, of course but not impossible....There must be some Current Event that we can discuss....