Not drawn by an American....This is just another excuse for these insane radicals to spew out there hatred for people they envy and would destroy if given the chance....this whole thing is so ridiculous.

Thanks for the reply Chatty. My exact thoughts too...just an excuse.

Well, kindness sure doesn't seem to work with them. I don't know what would reach them. They race through the streets cutting themselves and call it self flaguation. My dear mother once tried to describe the act of self flaguation and mispronounced the word. You can imagine what she came up with. We all laughed until we cried.

Anyway, I agree, Chatty, it seems any excuse will do to attack.

I loved it today when someone wrote in to the editorial page of our newspaper and pointed out how biased they were by not printing these cartoons. They went on to chastise the Plain Dealer: "The Plain Dealer has in the past printed on numerous occasions cartoons that have mocked the Catholic pope and has mocked and ridiculed the Holy Eucharist. Maybe the Catholics need to start a revolt and do damage to newspaper buildings to get some respect. Naw, WWJD?"

Are these riots really spontaneous and based on the love of a prophet or are they instigated by those fearing loss of power, control, prestige and or natural resources? If one can openly discuss official state religion, couldn't one begin discussing and questioning alot more things?

For example, how in saudia arabia can i be top boss in my family, if women also were allowed to drive, move about without a male relative escort, have more then one spouse, or divorce me as easily as i can divorce her ?? How in certain countries can i control my daughters if the lash or execution is not allowed by my religion to ensure they stay in line?

On the other hand, if i care not for my religion but after studing 'The Project for the New American Century' (pnac) i fear foreign takeover or rule by large foreign corporations how can such activity be discouraged?

these are dumb questions but if it is true that those who control the wealth make the rules and if it is true that the U.S. is now carrying a massive debt load owed in part to Saudia Arabia and China ....... i think real nightmares could be facing our grandchildren...

[ February 18, 2006, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: norma ]

Never better said, Norma. Only you forgot one other thing - retaliation for western countries promising one thing and delivering another. In the past. But I agree - these things are exactly what ALL this is about....

I know that sometimes I sound as if I'm condoning what is being done, but I am not stating what I believe with clarity. What I believe is just what you've said and I just said - not giving anyone any justification for violence at all, but giving a reason for the problem in hopes we can avoid it in the future. I'm not so sure it's at all possible, but it is necessary to try anything. It's all very frightening to me, but the world has been a frightening place since.....well, since recorded history.

Not dumb questions in the least, but obviously well researched ones. And have you ever doubted that any part of our world is controlled by wealth? And yeah, what is that about our having a debt to CHINA? I don't get it....But then I haven't done as much homework as I should.

Well, Smile,

I am not very articulate on these matters, but just from watching history channel and some others, I understand that it all began during the Ottoman Empire. The British promised them that they would return power to the locals, but did not. When the United States allied with England later, we were included in the distrust. You can find more info just by going to encyclopedia.com and looking up Iraq. There is much history involved here, including the World Wars, and we did support Hussein in the Iran/Iraq war when it suited our needs of the time. Not to say we did wrong, but gives a reason for the distrust they have. There is much more than is explained at encyclopedia, but you would have to look up Iraq history.

The world, in my view, has always been about power, which really means wealth and control of rescources regardless of the religious reasons given at the time....

You could pm me and we could discuss further....

The Ottoman Empire orginated in Turkey in the fifteenth century and ended almost a hundred years ago. Several attempts to return power to local tribes resulted in anarchy and tribal warfare which has killed more Iraqis than any other force.

Our dependence on England ended more than two-hundred years ago so that doesn't appear to be a rational reason for Muslims to hate our country.

I see nothing that would lead to the conclusion that we have "promised one thing and delivered another." However, the history of that area is very complex, and if there are specific incidents, please let us know.

I believe their hatred for us is more related to the cultivation, long term use, and on-going trafficking of heroin and cocaine. Those drugs steal the spirit and instill hatred. Over centuries, I believe persistent drug use has permeated the culture and drug induced hatred can now be acted on as a result of the power and money from oil.

I believe our country has made mistakes, but we have also been more humane, even to our enemies, than any other country in the world. We have so much more to be proud of than guilty about.

smile

[ February 18, 2006, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: smilinize ]

I only think that this problem is deeply rooted and is not the result of one or two things.... I surely am not saying that our country should feel guilty over anything, I'm just trying to give reason to the underlying causes for hate and mistrust. I am sure our own country has many such reasons for mistrust of others....and we do not behead people.

Yes, as I said, this originated many years ago.

I did not say that we were dependent upon England at the time. I said we were allied with them.

Something came to my mind awhile ago. I was studying some involvements of phrases, colloqualisms and so on, in our culture..I began to realize that many phrases I grew up with really came from my families Irish heritage, and so too, the German side. I had never before noticed that these phrases were not spoken by my friends' families. (who were mostly Skandinavian). It occurred to me that my parents learned these phrases (and opinions) from theirs. And on down the line. My father's family came from Ireland 5 generations ago - and still, there were verbal ties in our day to day lives. Then I started to realize that emotions, viewpoints and cultural perspectives are handed down as easily as blue eyes or brown hair...And that these things are tied together by many, many years ago - centuries even - but not so many PEOPLE ago. 5 generations is only 5 people - in lineage. One mother exhibiting her view to her child, and the child to hers. In thinking this way, it is easy to understand how hatred can be passed down for hundreds of years. or love of something as well....That is not to say that the opinions should not be changed, just that they are there.


In any case, I have not, as I have said ,studied these events in great detail. So am not qualified to discuss them in great detail. And as I see that this topic can cause great emotion, I think I should defer from further remarks. At least until I have studied this in more depth.