Good Afternoon All,

Thank you JJ, for stepping in here, I felt a little like I might have taken on something out of my bounds - but I guess not enough to be quiet about it!!! However, I'm a member of this forum also and want it to continue. I haven't been invited to "watch" things, but I still feel obligated to contribute to a place where we all can equally express opinions without fear of reprisal.

Sandi, you are to be commended for your apology. We need more of that to be sure...

And to be sure also, this is a HOT topic. The nation itself is torn , so it's not a leap to assume that there would be differing opinions on this site. And most certainly, Passionate opinions, since these issues involve our very belief systems....Just remember, Islamic extremists are passionate about their beliefs also - and I know no-one wants to go anywhere near that route. So let's continue our discussion, but in a civil tone, respecting one another.

Welcome back, Norma. It's good to have someone here from "another country" altho it seems strange to admit that Canada is another country. I have so many of my family in Canada that it seems just another part of my own world. And then Bluebird is from eastern Canada, right? (Which btw, I would like to look up, but I haven't yet figured out a way to do that without loosing this post - anyone want to explain that to me?)

So here's my thought for the day - as Casey so well put it, it is the human FACE which will change any idea we have. It's the unknown, the unfamiliar, which becomes "scarey". And throughout history, when we become afraid of the unknown, we gather our weapons, and prepare to strike. Good when we were but hunter-gatherers, but not so good today. In those days, the "different" were a liability. Today they should be our strength.

I am speaking not only as a member of this "society", but also as a Mother of someone different. I see little difference between women's issues, the issues of black America, the issues of Native America, or the issues of "disabled" America. Not to mention the issues of gay America. It seems to me, that anyone to the left or right of center, is bound to be belittled, ignored, or targeted. O, and I forgot, Latino America. And then, of course, Asian America. Not to mention, European America, and those Americans from the Middle East. If I have forgotten any, I apologize. but my point is obvious. America is not , and never has been, a place of homogenous people. The very fact that we invaded this country, attempted genocide on it's inhabitants , and fought to maintain the borders, is proof that we are a people who demanded power - and anyone differing from our view was pounded into submission...Well, I could go on....

But I am asking that each of you think again. Think very long and deep. If your own sibling was gay or lesbian, if your own child was disabled, if you have genetic ties to any other group other than white- anglo- saxon, how then, would you respond?

Searcher

I am considered the harsh observer in this forum from time to time but this topic like so many has no answer. No matter how we feel about same sex partners it is of no consequence what-so-ever. I judge people, NO I take that back. I accept people on their merit whatever it may be, a firm handshake, a big bright smile and twinkling eyes, kindness, generosity and sincerity. These are what I look for in a person NOT whether they like same sex partners or not. Luckily for me and my family we have a host of good, decent, honest friends and yes, some are gay so what? If there is to be a reckoning one day because of ones sexual make-up, let God sort it out. It is not our business to try and do so. Least we be judged for our differences whatever they may be.... Live and let live is a good motto!

Chatty Lady,

We so agree!!!!! It surely is of no consequence whatever. So MANY more important things to be considerd...and yes, let Harietta (God) sort it out, we don't have the expertise....

I'm a great proponant of live and let live. However, the problem comes up when a particular group is villified, I think. Because there are always some -- not in this group! -- who want to take righteousness to an extreme and destroy that which they do not understand or fear. It why Matthew (sorry, can't remember his last name) in Wyoming was killed.

I like Chatty's idea of "a firm handshake bright smile and twinkling eyes, kindness, generosity and sincerity." It gives me a great mental picture of her essence. I wonder what would happen if we treated all in our daily lives like that?

The power of words is great. It can be used to whip a mob into frenzie, or encourage a person who has a sickness inside to perform an act of violence. Lent is upon us. In my church we have always done a pagent based on Good Friday. The words "Crucify Him!" ring out. Who do we crucify with our own words?

As always, take what you like and leave the rest.
Peace

Casey,
I love reading your post. And to all of you, it does a body good to hear you speak from the heart. Remember the proposed witches of Salem. I've read a little about this time period and I cry when I would read of Mothers, sisters and daughters who were tortured and burned because of what? A neighbor didn't like them so they started the rumor they were different, suspicious, a witch? As you say they were "whipping a crowd into a frenzy" and before you know it, have them wanting blood. So sad! Some of these people were murdered because.......they were different, they didn't follow the norm, and/or they walked to a different beat of the drum. Makes you stop and think, doesn't it?

JJ

To the Queen,

Yes, I've read some too. Did you read that most of this was because of the plague? People didn't know what to blame this on, so began to think it must be from evil; and evil meant anything that differed from the norm. At that time, there were so many rules, that the slightest infraction was taken as evil. In fact, it evolved into this: that the devil would be sneaky, so the better a woman you were, the more likely it would be that the devil would use you as his instrument in order to fool others. So even if you followed all rules to the letter, you were even more suspicious and could be murdered anyway! Damned if you do, damned if you don't. (Wonder if that's where that came from).....

I wish more would read about the history of the world, instead of taking someone else's account as truth. Even then, history is only written by men (meaning humans, but sadly, not too many women have written history).....

Searcher

Oh yes...the plague! And also, did you read where each area (at one time) was called upon to have a "quota" of witches? Oh yeah! So they had to meet their quota and took innocent victims and tortured them first, then burned them at the stake. How their families must have suffered.

JJ

Yes, I did, JJ.

And one wonders where the idea of ghosts came from? If I met my demise in this way, you BET I'd be back to haunt them all!!!! One by one.

But then that brings us back to forgiveness, and I'm sure those people were mostly out to save their families and loved ones from what they genuinely thought was evil. At least I hope so.

Which, in turn, leads me to say, those young men who murdered the gay man (young man) from Wyoming, were not living in the dark ages.......I feel badly I don't remember his name, because if I were HIS family, I would wish his name were never forgotten. Never.

Searcher (o and yeah, if I lived in those times, I'm sure I would be one of the first ones to be tortured and burned at the stake!)

Unemotionally, without moral judgement, but with love for the individual, imagine the effects of same sex marriage on employer paid health insurance that covers legally married spouses.

Both insurance rates and tax supported healthcare programs will be affected.

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS01B1&v=PRINT

smile

Wow! I've been so busy and so emotionally involved with my family that I hadn't read any new posts lately. I have to admit, I'm hurt. I'm deeply hurt and disappointed that people can be so cruel and hateful!!

I accept your apology, sandi. Thank you. I believe it is wrong to assume anything about someone else you don't even know.

Let me clear up some misconceptions I've picked up while reading these posts. First, I don't hate anyone. To the contrary, if I err at all, it is in the other direction. I love too much and with too much abandon.

Anyone who knows me personally will tell you I don't judge anyone as a whole. I put faces to every issue. I've tried to imagine what each of you look like and have grown to appreciate each and every one of you.

I was raised in a very strict home, but left my familie's teachings when I was a teen and went on a spiritual journey of my own to discover who I was and what I believed. I was into all sorts of things and became very "enlightened"...then came full circle and realized that an open mind holds nothing and that laws of nature and rules need to be in place for our well being, safety and survival as the human race.

My beliefs are based solely on an indepth study of ancient history, new age philosophy and science as they compare to religious dogma.

What I have come up with is that the majority of our society is easily lead into whatever belief system is the most popular because they don't have a basis in truth to fall back on. Its that simple.

Study Mithra and her courtiers. What were they and why?The form of homosexuality that was most common in ancient Greece was pederasty, meaning a relationship between an adult man and a male youth. For the Greeks, pederasty was more than a sexual pasttime or preference - it was nearly a social institution. A same-sex relationship between an older man, probably in his 20s or 30s, known as the erastes, and a beardless boy, the eromenos or paidika, became a cultural ideal. The relationship was regarded as mutually beneficial, as the older man would educate, protect, love, and provide a role model for his lover, while the eromenos offered his partner with beauty, youth, admiration, and love. {9}

Above, you see in ancient Greece it was common for the adult male to have a child as a concubine.

History repeats itself and all the ancient cultures have fallen, Rome, Greece and one of the main reasons was the depravity of homosexuality and the other was that they became a welfare state.

I believe what I believe not out of hate because I too, know and love some who are caught up in the deception that its OK to be homosexual just as some believe it is OK to be a pedafile or an alcoholic.

My heart breaks for them and their families. I love others very deeply and care about them and what will happen to our society if we continue down the path I see us on.