Hey Dots, Both my boys were with me and my Partner too. Robert is 20, Lucien is two and a half.( I carried the baby in my heart) The long term staff want Robert to prepare himself for a one year volunteering post as they think it is just right up his street.He has a lot of my traits....the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I can picture my grand kids...when they come along, going too. I am putting serious thought into moving closer to the community. Ballycastle, as I think I have mentioned before, is my spiritual home.

Pauline.

Lucien is an interesting name. Does it mean anything special? You make me want to visit your country!

Popea, did you see Rosie's special about her cruise? I'd love to hear your reaction.

Oh heavens when will we learn to just live and let live...?

It breaks my heart when I hear of people who can't visit partners in the hospital because they're not married, or they lose the kids if the partner dies. From my perpective, the "no gay marriage" laws are breaking up REAL families.

Thankfully, I haven't heard any bigotry here on that issue. To the so-called "religious" who make noises about the sanctity of marriage when the issue of gay marriage comes up, I have these questions:
When two hetero people marry so one of them can gain sexual access to the other's children, is this your idea of a sacred union?
When someone marries so they can have a partner/slave to abuse, is this sacred?
How about marrying for a green card?
Or money? Which would include scams.
Or convenient sex? Or boredom?
How about the 15-minute marriages of some of our celebities?

But when two gay people love each other and wish to make a social, legal, and religious commitment, why do these "religious" make so much noise about the "sacred" institute of hetero marriage?

A marriage is only as sacred as the people involved, and sexual preference doesn't determine what's in someone's heart.

I've read all your posts and I know this is a heavy subject. A lot of you know I willing share as I feel led. You may or may not know that I my husband after 24 years came out of the closet and I lost my best friend, my mate for life and my marriage. I could be very 'anti-gay' if I allowed myself to be. But I do think I have gained some knowledge and insight we can all draw learn from. So...if you will all allow me the floor...

I agree that many Christians approach homosexuality (and other issues)all wrong. In their attempt to inform others what the bible says they get 'crazy' and protest etc. The bible says to hate the sin but LOVE the sinner. The bible also says that homosexuality is a sin--just as being a child molester, an abuser, marrying for anything other than a true marriage union, to gain access to money, etc--all have a root in some sin. The bible also says that we ALL have sinned and fallen short. We aren't supposed to judge, because we ourselves will in turn be judged.

All that said...God established the union of a man and a woman at the creation of the man. The bible refers to God as the bridegroom and that He will return for His bride (those that love Him) Marriage, at its truest form, is to be a mirror of the relationship that God wants to have with each of us. Satan attacks marriage to distort that image--through every means he can drum up, and with each passing generation that image becomes more and more distorted. All part of his plan to pull us away from a relationship with God.

Coming from a world angle, someone said in an earlier post that they couldn't see where allowing mixed marriage would damage regular marriages (from a law point of view) However, history has proven time and time again that no person, no country has ever lost its freedom overnight. Ask anyone who has lived in freedom and then had all rights lost to communism. They will tell you that they lost their freedoms and rights to choose one piece at a time, at first it was so subtle that they didn't really notice and weren't concerned. Once they realized just how fragile and perilous their situations were it was too late. We have lost in this country the right to pray, the right to assemble as Christians at school, we aren't allowed to draw pictures of religious people, we are being pushed to drop Merry Christmas, someone wants to take God out of the constitution--the very document that founded this country, etc. But at the same time we are forced to embrace every other religious holiday, draw pictures of witches etc, learn about other religans in class without the ability to share our beliefs.

We are even allowing ourselves to be overrun by illegal immagrants, who refuse to learn our language and we are actual contemplating changing our language for others???

We are selling our roads and highways to foreign governments and companies to ease our financial burdens and had contemplating selling one of the largest sea ports to a foreign country--when are we going to wake up?!

We are on a slippery slope--and it involves a whole lot of issues--not just one or two--they are all connected. We all need to stop pointing fingers at each other, love each other and keep our eyes and hearts heavenward.

Thank you for listening, I guess I will get off the soapbox now....

The word God is NOT in the Constitution, at least not the copy I have. If someone wants to point it out to me, I'll be happy to agree that it's there.

O.K. If we love each other -- which I believe is part of the greatest commandment -- the one that trumps all others -- what does that look like? What is love? Who is the other?

To me, love means a feeling of connection, one of knowing that we are all part of the same source (God, Goddess) which is an energy throughout our lives and universe. For me, that love was personified many ways, especially in Jesus. Love means finding the best way to communicate with those with whom I disagree on this planet. It means living without fear, yet continuing to work to see that the values in which I believe are allowed to grow. It means supporting everyone to be the best person for who they are at this particular point in time.

The other is everyone. Everyone. No exceptions.

How do I best express this love remains my question to myself and my God/dess. I pray for that loving-kindness to reach through me and beyond me to shine on each person I meet. I pray for the words and knowledge to help people move beyond the fear that says that they can't to a place where they believe all is possible.

That's the light of freedom, love and spirit for me. It gives a platform for reasoned, loving, spiritual discussion. It allows for messiness, not absolutes. It gives us time to learn about the other person and their lives, hopes and beliefs.

So just taking one of the comments above, I don't believe that we have "lost in this country the right to pray," but I trust that starting over believes it, so it is valid for her. I would like to explore that more. When have you not been allowed to pray? It seems important to me that we all be allowed to pray.

In spirit

Starting Over, I agree we are on a slippery slope. I think it is up to us to fix it. If we don't like what is going on in this country, then we need to get out there and vote to change it. There are so many issues (and thank goodnes we don't all agree!) that we have to choose the candidate based on his/her record on ALL the issues, not just one. I can't stand campaigns that focus on ONLY abortion, or ONLY Iraq, or ONLY anything else. There are too many problems that need to be fixed.

Casey, I agree with you about the commandment that trumps all. However, if we can't love ourselves (we meaning the US and the divisiveness I see everywhere), how can we love anyone else? There is such a divide right now between those who back the President and those who don't. This country was based on dissent, but today I don't see reasoned discussion any more. Discourse has been reduced to name calling and personal attacks on people who don't agree. We can't even agree to disagree. Where will it end?

Yonuh, I very much agree with what you are saying. And I would also look at a candidate to see what he or she truly values in life, which you can glean from their voting record and the things that do with their own lives rather than what they say.

Yes, we need to love ourselves before we can love others. There are actually several things I've heard recently that indicate the majority of people are really fed up with the divisiveness, name-calling and personal attacks. Reasoned discussion is what this country was based on. The founding fathers didn't agree on everything. The issue of slavery almost derailed everything.

In order to do this we need to begin to do a few things. The first is to trust that the other person is coming from a place of integrity with what they believe. Their beliefs are valid for them and it doesn't make them a bad person. The second is to live with messiness, disagreement and give up the need to convert anyone to anything.

It's tough and it takes a great deal of patience, maturity and soul-searching. It takes a willingness to admit we may be wrong. It will end when we are ready for it to end.

I'm so glad I spent some time tonight that enabled me to find this thread. I am a lesbain who 2 years ago legally married my soul mate in Provincetown, MA. Until I read what each of you have written, I was unsure how welcomed I would be on this site. I agree that fear and ignorance is the basis for most hostile reactions.