How valid are the assessments on Predators and Editors? I sent out about a dozen query letters over the weekend to various agents in Ontario. Today I heard back from Authors' Marketing Services in Toronto. They sounded quite interested in my book but when I looked them up on P & E, they were not recommended. They also charge a reading fee of $395.

Does everyone here trust the P & E guidelines? Is it customary to pay a fee or is that something that I should avoid at all costs?

Thanks.
Sigrid

Sigrid
I can't vouch for the P&E guidelines, but I know a lot of writer's recommend them and use them so I would tend to be very cautious about getting involved with something that did not receive a recommendation from their site.

I don't have enough experience to tell you whether it's customary to pay a fee or not, so hopefully someone else can answer that for you.

Thanks, Evie. They seem to have a good reputation and I am inclined to trust them. That's so irritating because this agency expressed an interest in my novel.

Intuitively, I don't feel that we should be paying agents to read our stories. If the stories are good enough, they should stand on their own. Then the agents can take their fees from book sales.

It's just like book reviews. I don't want to pay anyone to review my book. Speaking of which, my book is being reviewed by three or four sources right now but they've had it for ever. What is a respectable amount of time for me to wait before I follow up with them?

Have a great week :-) Sigrid

P.S. Where is Nipigon?

Sigrid I have used P&E for years and know Victoria Strauss, the writer who maintains the database for them....she does extensive research and has based the info she posts on letters she receives from writers all over the world.

You of course need to follow your heart on your search for an agent but the rule of thumb (and I'm not just talking about on P&E) is not to pay a reading fee - and certainly that is one of the BIGGEST ones I've ever heard of!! Someone recently said that "time is money" for those reading all the query letters and I do believe that's true - but $395 is a LOT of money.

I wish you a LOT of luck though - and whatever you decide to do - make sure it's right for YOU - regardless what others may advise.

Sigrid,

I'd stay away from any agent or editor who charges a reading fee. I've heard this from several industry professional over the years. It's easy to get caught up in the excitement of having someone love your work. Meanwhile think long and hard before dealing with this agent. Yes, I trust preditors and editors.

Diane

Pam, Thanks for the reassurance about P&E. I agree that the reading sum is outrageous. My better judgment tells me that agents shouldn't charge fees. I just got excited when the guy sounded interested in my book. I hate approaching one agent after another! So far, I haven't sent my book to anyone yet, but I will trust P&E.

Sigrid

Sigrid, they're not interested in your book, they're interested in your money. No reputable agent charges a reading fee.

Sigrid, are you looking for someone to edit or an agent? It is considered very unethical for an agent to charge any fee of any kind. They might ask you to send them so many copies of your manuscript, etc. but they don't charge...ever. They make their money when they sell your book. A good editor will read and help with your writing so of course, you pay but never an agent up front.

SIgrid, I agree. Everything I've read online and in books says you should not have to pay a reading fee. I have used P&E and trust her information.

Be sure to read writing magazines. Even if you do it at libraries, or book stores. They often have agents looking for new talent. That's how I found mine.

Meredith -- I agree that they are interested in my money.

Dianne -- I want an agent not an editor. The book has already been edited and self-published, but I would prefer to go the traditional publishing route.

Dotsie -- That's a great idea about writing magazines. That never occurred to me.

Firstly, I'm going to submit it to the Bukowski agency because they are particularly interested in Canadian talent and they received an excellent review by P&E.

Thanks everybody :-) Wish me luck! Sigrid

Sigrid, Hi! I second the other letters...never pay an agent fee. I sent queries to 50 reputable agents (using Writers Market Online). None charge fees and warn authors not to send to those that do. And ALL sent form reject letters. That's why I went to POD. I'm putting my time and money into my own publicity/marketing. Even if you get it published traditionally, they're only going to peddle it for a brief time. No limits when you do it yourself. And you get much smaller royalties. I'd be more interested in how the crossovers happened...asking POD authors who made the transition, how it happened. Karen

Karen,

So nice to hear from you :-) Yeah, I've spoken to a number of authors who have received one rejection after another. I'm bracing myself for the possibility. However, royalties are only higher with POD if you're selling books!

My first book is nonfiction. That is selling quite well, particularly if I spend a little bit of money to market it via pay for click. But my fiction book is not moving off the shelf :-( It's a great book! I'm not bragging but I really like it. So do most of the people who've read it, but despite an inordinate amount of time marketing that book, I can't seem to generate sales.

If you look at the Amazon figures for POD authors, the rankings always seem quite small in comparison to the traditionally published authors. I don't know. I just want to give the traditional route a chance, but thanks for the warning about not paying a reading fee. I totally agree.

Hope all is well and that you are approaching publication.

Best, Sigrid

Sigrid, best of everything. Continue to keep us posted. Remember, perseverance is key. Onward...

Thanks for your encouragement, Dots. I need to give this novel another shot because I can't get it off the ground on my own. Five different people are supposed to be reviewing it but they've had the book for months. I just wanted to explore another avenue. I appreciate your support :-) Sigrid

Hi Sigrid.

I just joined this site after doing a goodle on author's marketing service and your forum came up!
I just received the same reply as you, and am looking for some input into this agency.
From what I understand it is extremely unprofessinal for an agent to charge a reading fee. However, I was aware of the reading fee, as I had spoke to them prior, but for some reason chose to send in to them anyway as opposed to others who also charge that I did not send.
I also did a search on P&E, yet nothing came up. how did you search? We can perhaps compare our letteers should you be inclinded.

Sushi,

Nice to hear from you. I'm pretty sure that I did my search on P&E alphabetically, so the agency should have shown up in the "A" section.

Yes, I'd be very interested in seeing your letter. Perhaps you could send it as a private message. I'll do the same. I wonder if they send out the same letter to all prospective customers.

Too bad because I was excited when I first received their letter :-(

TTYS, Sigrid

Hi Sigrid, You're absolutely right about the net being low even though the royalties are high if you don't sell any. But, especially for fiction, it seems like much more of a crap shoot trying to find a traditional publisher. I'm getting too old to wait around any longer. And I'm certainly not "connected" in any way. I wish us all luck in pursuing whatever avenues are open. Karen

Karen,

Right now I have the best of both worlds. I have already published my book with Lulu. It is out there. If it starts to do well suddenly, I will proceed as a self-publisher. However, in the event that does not occur, I am trying to protect myself by applying to agents.

I do understand how competitive the market is. Just about everyone I have spoken to has had their book rejected BUT a few folks have not. So, there's no harm in trying.

I think your book will do really well. It sounds so fascinating! Can't wait to read it.

Sigrid

Hi Sigrid,

Thanx for the note, and no do not worry I am certainly not going to submit by novel to them. I was just curious what his reply was, and I agree with you that there is no way that they take only 2-3 a month if they said yes to both you and I:)
Thanx!!

Sushi,

I believe there are a lot of good and honest agents out there. Your book will find a home and so will mine!

Good luck :-) Sigrid

Again, I say perseverance is key. Believe in your book topic and relay that in writing in your query. Help the agents/publishers feel your passion. Be sure you have others read your query before sending it. We must write query letters that will knock someone's sock off. Best wishes to all of us.

I agree with Dotsie and Sigrid... I'm sure there are lots of good agents and you WILL find one. Don't overlook one great resource though. Your public library. Its free, there are tons of resource books there too. Not only ones on agents, but ones on how to write a killer query letter, which CAN open the door to finding your agent.

Good luck! and keep us posted.

JJ

Thanks for the tips about the query letter. Never thought about running it past someone else before I sent it.

I appreciate everyone's encouragement. Right back at ya!

Sigrid

I have gone the route of self publishing and so far I am happy with it. The only problem is if it doesn't have a built in target audience it is very hard to promote the book. My book Into the Mist is for Alzheimer's care givers and professionals. I have a novel that I want to get published and this time I am going to try to find an agent. I won't have a foot in the door to get my novel to the right publishers. If anyone has an agent who is looking for someone to represent let me know. I spent a full year (six months each) with two of the top literary agents as they considered Into the Mist. They both loved it but after six months each they passed. I was tired of waiting so long so I self published. Did that make any sense? I think I am rambling.

Deb,

You're not rambling. I can identify completely. My first book is all about how to recover from a total hip replacement. Like your Alzheimer's book, it has a very specific target audience, so I did not have difficulty marketing it.

My second book is a novel and I just can't get it off the ground. That's why I want to send it to agents but I fear that I will run into the same roadblocks that you have encountered. Such a dilemma :-(

Did you publish your novel with Xlibris as well?

Best, Sigrid

If anyone needs their book typed, edited and prepared for submission, please contact me at secbydesign@bellsouth.net. I'll be glad to help!

Hello, I have also received a letter from Author's Marketing Services Ltd., In toronto and they are interested in my first novel. However they are asking for a reading fee to be sent "at some point" after I send the book electronically. The fee is $395.00 Canadian. I have done a bunch of reseach on them and have found that they are legitamate and have about 20 clients with all the major publishing houses. But... I am warry of the reading fee, even though more than half of the agents in Canada charge them espite all the advise not to.

I was never been my intention to submit the full book to an agency that charged fees as everyone is clear that this is unethical. When I sent the query letter to them, it was not stated in their package that they charge fees. Hense my surprise.

Larry Hoffman, the president of the agency has some really good references and some good clients as well, but I am extremely conflicted. I have talked with past clients and they say he is good but they all seem to have left once they got their first book published.

There seem to be only about 14 agents in Canada that don't charge fees while there are around double that who do.

I certainly do not want to throw any money at an editor or book doctor as it has already been through that process and has garnered rave reviews from several non-biased readers.

Unfortunately, despite the books topical, Canadian and marketable nature, I have receive very positive rejection letters from five agents, nothing from eight and one from Author's Marketing Services who liked the premise, the method.

I have been deliberating over this for almost a week now and still cannot make up my mind despite the massive amount of advise: "don't pay fees!"

I don't want to be an idiot, for certain, and I am not going to go with POD as that is an even less finantially viable and marketable approach, but there just seems to be so few options in Canada.

don't do it. hoffman told me and another person that he like our book ideas. i'd like to hear from someone he turned down! maybe after the $395. he may be perfectly good but preditors and editors gave him a poor review. don't take the gamble. i just tried bukowski in toronto. no fees. good luck!

ps. pod is not that bad. if u use lulu, u can publish for almost no cost - a few hundred dollars at best. the marketing is up to u at the end anyway. think about it. or u can publish pod now and keep applying to agents. that's what i'm doing.