I know that this sounds like a dumb question but I wondered if most of the people on this web site are Christian or spiritual. If so, does that affect your reading choice? Do many people here boycott material that is rated R? Just curious.

Sigrid

PS. Good thing I'm not paranoid.I have started three threads on the message board and no one has replied to any of them! I know that my posts are always really long and I apologize for that. The reason is that I use a voice dictation program and I just get carried away. Sorry!

Okay, I'll try to answer.

I am a Christian, but I read all kinds of material. I always choose to read the best "story" that is the most well written.
I am unafraid of naughty words, but if they are out of character or thrown into every line for no reason except to get the R rating, the book is soon history.
Same for sex scenes. If they're there just for the R, leave it out. Who needs it? And the more graphic they are, the less likely I am to like them. I hate authors who confuse sex "scenes" with sex "manuals." Yuk.
Unnecessary violence is a waste of my reading time too. A plethora of Blood and guts without very good reason do not excite me. They're just silly.
If being R rated means it is all four letter words, graphic sex, and needless violence, then I would not be a reader.
Some of all of the above if well told and in a great story though and I'd read and re-read. In fact, "All of the above in a great story" pretty well describes the Bible, A christian favorite.
smile

Sigrid, I consider myself very spiritual. I'm not Christian at all so that's not my framework.

I will read R or X-rated if it's written well, but that's also my criteria for G. I'm OK with sexual content that's intrinsic to a story, but like smilinize, I'm not interested in the sex manual stuff -- actually because it's dull and didactic. I don't care to read explicit violence because I don't want my stomach churned. There's too much violence in the world as it is, and I don't need to read (or see it on TV or movies) in graphic detail.

I boycott material that is boring, preachy, politically correct, religiously empirical, saccharine, written poorly, written for someone with the IQ of a beercan, formulaic, didactic, simplistic, condescending, preachy, overblown, and poorly written. Also preachy-that-pretends-it-isn't-preachy, and poorly written.

Controversial? Bring it on! -- provided you know how to write.

Sigrid,
I'm Christian, but wasn't always.
I agree with what smile has already said. I read a lot of different things, not just Christian writers.

I'm not happy with a lot of graphic violence and will not watch that. I'm just too sensitive.

I don't mind sex scenes in a novel or movie, if they are well written and, again, not overly graphic. My preference, is to have some things left to my imagination - which I think is highly creative enough on its own

If a writer is just throwing a bunch of sex and violence into a novel because they feel that is what is going to "sell" it and it has nothing to do with the story line, than to me it's just trashy writing.

A good writer will engage the reader's imagination into the story and does not need to spell everything out for them.

Maybe, I'm just old fashioned but I feel there's just way too much sex and violence in our movies and far too little good stories or plots....

BTW, these were my views before becoming a Christian and have nothing to do with religious preference so much as personal values.

I dropped out of a book club because most of the members were Christian and every book they chose was like a page out of the Bible. If I had wanted a Bible Study, I would have joined one.

I call myself a Spiritual Christian. Raised in the church but grew tired of being told every single thing was a sin. I have found love in God by reading the Bible myself, praying and meditating.

I like true crime books. Weird. Don't know why but I do. I don't like to read violence and I don't care about reading about sex. I'm interested in how the police put facts together to catch the killer.

Whoa Dianne, me too! I read a lot of Ann Rule. Anyway, I agree with what the other ladies have said as well. If it's well written, it isn't just "trash." There's a reason for the words, scenes, etc. (that others might call R-rated), and they fit so well into the story line. A book that can bring out the best of my senses, FEAR, LAUGHTER, SENSUAL, etc...is a good book and worth the read if you ask me. I don't like blood and guts. I can watch the nightly news for that.

JJ

Well, I've opened up a whole can of worms here! I agree with almost everyone except that I'm not religious or spiritual. I will not watch movies with gratuitous violence. Recently, I rented Kill Bill because I loved Pulp Fiction. But I turned off Bill after about 10 or 15 minutes. It was unwatchable.

Strong language does not affect me when it is realistic and placed in a proper context. For example, I'm a big fan of The Sopranos and Six Feet Under. However, I just read I am Charlotte Simmons by Tom Wolfe and I found the language to be quite offensive and unnecessary.

Totally agree regarding Ann Rule :-) I've read at least six or seven of her books -- she's the best!

Sigrid

Sigrid, you've gotten a lot of great answers to your question. I read lots of authors, with various ratings, sexual content, and even violence. I consider myself a spiritual person with a foundation in Christianity.

I too, don't like reading sex scenes just for the sake of tossing one or two in. They're easy to spot. The same for movies. If the story continues to move on without the scene, it wasn't necessary.

I'm sorry you didn't have any response to your other threads. I'll try to be more observant and watch for your topics.

I'm like several of the other girls who's responded to your question here in that I consider myself a spiritual person with a strong Christian foundation and background. I went through a very short period in my youth when I was less selective in my chosen reading material but pretty much settled down into what I would call "easy reading"...no heavy violence, blood/guts/sex.

Frankly, that's why when I decided to write a mystery series I went in that same direction. I know there are a lot of people who DON'T particularly want to read the blood/guts/gore type of mystery - just something fun with a touch of romance. Hopefully that's what I'm doing with my series.

I too am sorry I missed your other posts! I've just GOT to pay more attention when I stop in to see what's cookin' on the Forum!!!

Vicki -

Oh, don't worry about missing my other posts! I was joking. Because I use this voice dictation program, it's so easy to write that I end up hogging the forum :-)

Yes, I completely agree that there is no point in graphic sex that smacks of commercialism, or does not relate to the plot. However, I find certain authors like Nicholas Spark to be a little too "careful" for my liking.

I was just wondering how I should rate my own book because it does contain some profanity -- nothing that Stephen King wouldn't say, and every word was well chosen for a particular scene. But it is not squeaky clean by any means.
Some of my characters are drug addicts and I felt that it would be completely unrealistic to have them talking in wholesome sentences.

TTYA, Sigrid

Hi Pam,

I know exactly what you're saying. I am so much more selective about my reading now than I was when I was younger. But what I try to filter out more than sex or violence is material that completely bores me.

Life is short! My time is valuable. I used to be very compulsive about reading a book all the way through, but now I have no hesitation about abandoning a book in midstream if I hate the way that it's written, or if it fails to maintain my interest.

Don't worry about my posts :-) I'm always posting.

Best, Sigrid

Hi Eveline,

Oh, I definitely wouldn't want a lot of expletives. After all, my mother has to read it! I just can't have some tough, tatooed guy saying stuff like "Gee whiz, that stinks!" But I'm reviewing the MS now to see what words I can omit without losing the realism and crisp dialogue.

Thanks for your input :-) Sigrid

[ March 29, 2005, 03:30 AM: Message edited by: Sigrid Macdonald ]

P.S. Eveline - We both have two things in common. We're in Ontario and publishing with Lulu. How did you like them? I did my first book with AuthorHouse but will do the second with Lulu.

How do you find the shipping charges? I keep getting conflicting reports as to what shipping will cost. At first, the checkout said $12.80 per book (!!!) but then today it said, $8.80/US. A woman on the forum said I could use the USPS Global Mail service for $4.00 per book but I don't see the option anywhere in the purchasing section.

How do you order your books and what do you recommend for your friends in terms of shipping options? Thanks. S.

Sigrid,

Not everyone wants (or cares about) squeaky clean. If your book description mentions that some of the characters are drug addicts, most people can figure out that both language and situations might be rough. People who are looking for lighter or more "pristine" fare probably won't pick up your book at all.

I'm writing about my past experience with cancer. It's not a pretty picture, and I hope no one would expect it to be. Just write the best book you can.

Sigrid
So far I've just put an e-book out at Lulu so I don't have any shipping problems yet, but I am thinking about a second print book and hoping to use Lulu.

I've been reading all your posts re your shipping costs and experiences, very carefully while I decide what I'm going to do next. I have some time to look things over.

I like Lulu so far for what I've been using them for, but shipping is definitely a concern.

Perhaps, if more Canadians start to use Lulu and express concerns about the hefty shipping charges, Lulu will find some less expensive alternatives??

Sigrid,
I call myself a New Thought Christian if I'm forced to choose a label. I prefer to think of myself as a spiritual being having a human experience.

I agree with Meredith. What I read has more to do with whether it's entertaining for me or inspirational or informative. I do draw the line at gratuitous sex and violence because it is just that - not warranted by the circumstances or context - and is designed to try to get my attention with flash rather than quality.

However, I do not judge written or visual material by anyone's rules but my own because I believe that only I should be the judge of what impressions I take into my mental/spiritual world. It is not really the material usually that gets people in an uproar. It is that the material threatens some rule or regulation they adhere to. It is true that some things are in poor taste because they are gratuitous or directed toward hurting another person in some way. However, we always have the choice to walk away from it. Unfortunately, in my opinion, too many people feel they also have the right to determine what everyone else reads or sees.

I say write from your heart. Don't worry about trying to please everybody because that is impossible. As a writer you have an obligation to entertain or inform, but most of all to encourage others to think for themselves.

<Just write the best book you can.> Thanks, Meredith. That's really what it gets down to, isn't it?

<<I'm writing about my past experience with cancer. It's not a pretty picture, and I hope no one would expect it to be.>> Oh, I'm so sorry. I hope that you're feeling much better now. Good for you to write about it! You can help hundreds of thousands, or even millions of people that way.

My first book was all about my experience with total hip replacement. I was hit by a drunk driver when I was 28 and sustained multiple injuries. 20 years later my hip joint collapsed on me and I required the replacement. I wrote all about it in my book GETTING HIP. It's really nice to share our first-hand knowledge about an illness with others who were going through it. Doctors write from a completely different perspective.

Good luck with your book! Sigrid

Evie, Oddly enough, the shipping price changed from more than $12 to $8.80 last time I checked. Now people are recommending that I use the Global Priority service, which is only $4.00 US... I think if I persist with this, I can get a better price.

It would be great if you could get your book into print. E-books are wonderful but there's nothing like the printed page. Sigrid

$4.00 US is probably pretty standard shipping rates for shipping outside the States...can you choose the Global Priority through Lulu????

I didn't put "Heart's Desire" into print at Lulu because the church still has several print copies available to sell and I want those to go first. I just wanted to offer an E-book option so I could get some practice at Lulu and just have that option available I agree E-books are fine, but I prefer the printed page myself..

Thanks for all the info you are sharing re your experiences with Lulu.

Sigrid, I'm in remission for 6 years and doing fine.

I attend a writing critique group, 8-10 people, every Thursday. It's "our turn" about once a month. My book is a collection of essays and poetry, much of which was written at the time I was going through treatment. Last week I got to read, and all in attendance knew my story except for one new guy. When it was his turn to critique me, he said, "No offense, but I hate stories about sick people."

You could hear the jaws drop.

Not one to miss a beat, I said, "Well, I guess you won't be buying my book then!"

The point is, whatever you write, someone won't like it. Don't worry about pleasing everybody, because you can't. Worry about your craft, your story, your creativity, your presentation, etc. If you try to make your book all things for all people, you'll end up with gray nothing.

Dear Speaker Mom,

I guess my sense of humor got lost on the printed page. I wasn't really worried about people not reading my posts. I was just making a joke. I contribute to about five different forums, so I could never keep up with everybody else's posts :-)

Bad language doesn't bother me unless it's there for shock value and seems to be irrelevant to the plot. But I can understand that you would have had enough of that by teaching high school! LOL.

Best, Sigrid

Dannye,

Yes, I agree with everything that you said except that I'm not spiritual. The question is very interesting.

For many years, I was active in the women's movement. I had to ask myself if I planned to boycott music that was sexist or was written by someone who had just been arrested for beating his wife. Since I am an avid fan of hard rock, I would never have had a music collection at all if I had avoided sexist material.

I view reading the same way. I know some Catholics and Christians who will not read books with four letter words or go to movies that use profanity. Profanity seems to be everywhere! I just can't picture boycotting it, but of course, that is a personal choice.

Best, Sigrid

Evie -That's the million-dollar question. I just reposted it on another Lulu forum... So glad that your book is doing well at church. WTG! Sigrid

What a great question! I've been lurking in this discussion. My own answer is...I read whatever interests me.
This question reminded me of an incident that occurred when we first moved where I live now and joined the church in town. The Pastor came to visit us, and he noticed my book shelves. He pointed out my John Updike collection. I blushed, then he said, Oh, I like to read him, too. We had a good laugh and then discussed our favorite authors.
My Uncle was a Lutheran pastor as well, but I never recalled him reading anything except Christian related materials. Perhaps he just didn't have the time for anything else.
We almost sent our kids to a Christian school. At the time, we lived in a city, and the schools weren't safe. We ended up not sending the kids to a Christian school, and I homeschooled until we could move to an area where the public schools were safer. I'm upset about the book banning that is going on in schools. I also observed that in the Christian schools, most of the classics I had read in school would not be taught at all because of their secular themes. For me, literature is history.
I hope I wasn't out of line in my response.
Marie

Hi Sigrid, this is an interesting topic you have initiated. I consider myself spiritual, but that has nothing to do with how I write a book. It has a lot to do with what I read because I tend to read non-fiction. As for writing about drug addicts, you would be correct in saying that swearing is a part of the culture. But I chose to depict drug addicts I knew (in Beyond the...) without using their swearing because, as the author, I did not want to offend anyone! One of the characters is my cousin Annie, who died an unrehabilitated alcoholic and drug addict. In our "real" lives she could not compose a sentence without swearing. Yet, in the book, I do not repeat a single curse word she used. I didn't think it was necessary. Hmm, makes me wonder if I cheated her of her true character? I just read Sting's autobiography "Broken Music." He is a heck of a writer.. and told his entire story of rock and roll with very few swear words. The ones he used were in context. He is much more spiritual than I would have assumed, had I considered assuming! Love and Light, Lynn

Meredith,

So glad to hear that you're in remission. What a relief. Also a good sign that you passed the five-year mark.

Can't believe that guy said that! But I understand your point. Once I gave a speech analyzing one of the presidential debates and one of my listeners said that she hated politics, so she found my speech boring! We definitely can't please all of the people all of the time, and there is no point in trying.

Best, Sigrid

Marie,

I think that your response was great and I always love hearing from people who have been lurking. Updike is a classic writer. Think of how much we would miss if we bypassed Joyce Carol Oates or DH Lawrence because they address controversial issues.

Agreed that the whole notion of book banning in high schools is very scary! I hope to read more of your posts.

Best, Sigrid

Lynn, How is our author of the month? Hope that doesn't go to your head. LOL. Actually, let it go to your head for a few weeks at least!

Seriously, I was so sorry to hear about your cousin. How tragic. But it does sound to me that your spirituality affects both the material that you choose to read and the way in which you choose to write. After all, you said that you altered her vocabulary and that you think Sting is more spiritual because he doesn't swear (I inferred that from what you said.)

I don't know. Swearing is a funny thing. I often wonder who deemed all those words to be "bad" in the first place. They're just words. I grew up in New Jersey and everyone I knew swore except for the parents. I've been living in Ontario for 15 years and most of the people that I know don't swear with the exception of certain groups. But I swear all the time -- I'm just very conscious of what I say and where I say it.

There are certain words that I use with friends but I would never use in public. But when it gets down to writing, I'm looking for realistic dialogue and concise, accurate terms. Sometimes a four letter word is the ONLY word that works in order to convey anger or emphasis. But I have ambivalence about using them because I also don't want to offend people. However, I have decided to go with my gut feeling, which is that I want to create characters that feel like real people to me.

Always nice talking to you, Sigrid

Sigrid, no, no, no, I wasn't saying that Sting is more spiritual because he doesn't swear! That's 2 different things. Who am I to judge who is spiritual? I was just saying that he seemed more spiritual than what I would have assumed. I was stereotyping rock stars in general. Sting wrote a beautiful memoir, and his love for the earth and relationships indicated to me a spiritual part of his personality. You can read a quote of his on the featured author forum. Sigrid, nothing goes to my head. I am so low in self-esteem that even today I told myself that "I hope I don't blow it" It being the featured author. Sigrid, I grew up in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. The swear words I learned came from my father and my mother. Last week, when I was visiting her, I said something pissed me off. She said, "Don't say that." I said it was a common expression, used on TV. My step father said, "It's common all right. Ladies don't use that phrase." Girlfriends, I am 51, and they are telling me what to say! Yes, Sigrid, the bottom line is that "spirituality" affects what I read, but that is because I am always learning, and could stand to be a bit more spiritual. You can go to my blog page via my site and read my review of The Purpose Driven Life. I agree: go with your gut. If it sounds right in your heart and head, and swearing works in contect, go for it. If I had Beyond the Tears to write over again, I would depict my cousin the way she was. People said she could "swear like a sailor." I never understood that because the only sailor I knew as a child was Popeye, the Sailor Man. Love and Light, Lynn

Some of my best writing professors told me to use words sparingly and make sure every word counts.
They said unless dialogue either develops character or forwards plot, it is an unnecessary waste of words.
They also said that good dialogue is not necessarily 'realistic,' but is 'real,' meaning it reveals the important issues of the story, without including the repeated 'Uh's' and 'hmmms' and 'swear words' that can bore the reader with repetition.

I was also taught to write to express, not to impress. Forget your audience and express what is in your heart. If swear words are in your heart then express them.

I was also taught that a writer must write in his or her own voice. So I would say that if swearing is your voice, write it.

Strong language in some novels, and in some plays and movies, consume the action and stop communication. In other novels and movies, they are an integral part of the story. Almost always if used repeatedly, they become boring and I stop reading or watching.

Just my thoughts.
smile

Lynn,

Sorry. I misunderstood what you were saying about Sting. I must tell you that one night, Sting was forced to watch me on TV! Yes, it's true. Both he and I appeared on the show 20/20 and my segment came out before his. That means that Sting had to sit and watch me before he got to himself! LOL.

I also laughed at your parents telling you not to swear... Lynn, I'm sure that you expressed the essence of your cousin perfectly, and that there would never be any need to rewrite her character.

If you're lacking in self-esteem, borrow some of mine :-) Believe what I think about you rather than the inaccurate tapes that play in your head (They play in all of our heads.) Love, S.

Smile,

Great thoughts from you and your writing professor! I agree with all of them. Since I joined Toastmasters, I am so much more conscious of how many times people use filler words such as "um, uh, ah, like, so, and, etc." We definitely don't want to write dialogue like that. OTOH, I do throw in the occasional um or ah when I want a pause in the conversation or for effect. And because I think that it is REAL.

I hate nonstop profanity. I never watch it with the exception of The Sopranos, which I love. You could probably count the swear words in my 240 page book on two hands! But I'm not counting them anymore. I am not out to impress anyone. Expression is my only goal. All I want to do is write a good book.

Thanks for the great feedback :-) Sigrid

Oh Sigrid, what a wonderful message! Thank you so much! I am filled with your good thoughts about me! That is amazing about you and Sting! Oh my gosh, rock and roll groupie that I am I would have busted down the door to meet him. I like what you said about writing to express rather than to impress. Right on! It's true that the Sopranos is full of profanity. What was it like being on 20/20? I am impressed! Love and Light, Lynn

Dianne,

I just checked out your site, EADV. It's GREAT! I loved it and your book looks fantastic (so sorry that you had to suffer through all that)!

I wondered if EADV would consider linking to my blog and I'll definetely link back. My book, D'Amour Road, is about a woman in Ottawa, Ontario who goes missing.

My character is a sober alcoholic, who has just experienced a major slip. When she disappears, no one knows if she's gone on a drinking binge, or if she's been injured by her partner, who has a history of battering.

D'Amour Road explores themes of male violence, wrongful convictions, addiction, and cultural biases against aging. It is fiction BUT it's based on a true story of an acquaintance of mine who was killed by her partner.

Thanks! Sigrid

Lynn,

I am a big-time rock groupie, too. I spent two years being in love with Rob Thomas. Finally went to see Matchbox Twenty and was *so* depressed afterwards because a girl online was supposed to give Rob a note from me, but she never did. LOL. You'd think that I was 15 instead of 50 at the time.

No, I did not meet Sting! He and I were both featured on the same episode of 20/20, which had three separate segments. I was interviewed by John Stossel. That was exciting but I felt that the producers ambushed me. I sued the bar where the drunk driver had been drinking, along with the drinker, and 20/20 made me out to be a golddigger. Of course, the bar was responsible under the law and the man's blood-alcohol level was .23, and he was a regular who drank there every night, and there were never any more than 8-10 people seated at the little bar in the restaurant. But still 20/20 opposed the host liability act and made me look greedy.

Those were Smile's words that you liked about impression versus expression. I just plagiarized from her post :-) love, Sigrid