The mosque won't be on the same site, Chatty, and it will be a community center that contains a mosque. It's at least two blocks away amongst the strip clubs and fast food joints. And I don't think advocating blowing it up is the way to get revenge - it wasn't the Muslims in New York that blew up the Twin Towers. Many of the Muslims in New York are born in the US; and the bigotry against them in New York and elsewhere in this country is disgusting. It's like saying they shouldn't be here in the US because they're not like us. The US used to be about welcoming anyone who wanted to settle here, especially those who were persecuted in their own country. It is really sad that bigotry is ruining our beautiful country.

Back in 1999, just a week after the killings in Columbine, the National Rifle Association held its already-scheduled annual meeting in Denver. Despite many protests and charges of insensitivity, the head of the NRA Charlton Heston politely but firmly reminded people that NRA members mourned the senseless deaths as well, they were American citizens too, and they had a right to meet.

I think his words must have been very painful back then but he was correct. Looking at the proposed community center/mosque in Manhattan, I don't see how I can demand that other people -- other Americans -- refrain from exercising their rights just because I might be a little uncomfortable. I don't get to approve others' speeches, political campaigns, or religious pronouncements.

The evil people who destroyed so much on 9/11 were not Americans. Until my fellow citizens give me proof that they are plotting against me or the government, they have the same rights I do. Those fanatics did enough damage on 9/11, but they will really have won if we turn on each other.

Besides, I don't live in New York anymore. Sure, we all have opinions, but I don't think I'd care too much for people from other states telling me what to do. New York has its own local and state government. They can deal with this themselves.

My dearie's 31 yr. old nephew and his 29 yr. old girlfriend visited Vancouver last week.

They both live and work in New York City. They've been there for past 15 yrs. They understand about the tragedy but feel that the hyped up rhetoric/fear is displaced grief and anger on Muslim-Americans, who for the majority are living peacefully in the U.S. and not responsible for deaths. They are part of you and I, in our communities.

Please remember this.
I wonder how on earth the American veterans who return to vacation/visit Vietnam can say in amazement that they were greeted well by the same people who maimed them, killed their relatives, friends, etc.

This isn't about being politically correct. I recently read somewhere several other communities across the U.S. are resisting the building of local mosques. What for? And it wasn't about land development/zoning. It amazes me when I do visit American small cities and towns how many churches there are. Amazing. Last week I was on Whidbey island (one of the San Juan islands, Washington state) where in Oak Harbour, we must have counted hmmmm 6 large churches within 4 blocks of one another.

As a hypothetical question, would this conservative (it appeared conservative to me) town welcome a mosque, Buddhist temple.. I hope that they would.

I can’t support any culture or religion that sees women as second class citizens.

There are big controversies going on in Germany right now because of a recently published book. It’s about the Islam immigrants living in Germany, and most other European countries.
It is simply fact that the highest crime rate is in the neighbourhoods they overtake. The murder rate for women is appalling. Murder by their own family members, who claim their sister, daughter or cousin has brought shame to the family is scandalous. It’s beside the point, but often these women are at no fault. 99% of these people have no interest at all to learn the language of the country they live in. But they very gladly use all the social benefits, including adopting 12 or so children from other family members to gete them into the country. The children are usually the poorest in the schools, which have slowly transformed into ghettos.

The mosques, that are popping up all over the continent appear like poisonous mushrooms.
You do know that women aren’t allowed to pray in the mosques? You do know that they preach, according to Islam, that all non Islamic people are bad, enemies and need to be overtaken.

I’m sure you know that they consider women dirty, child bearing machines, and lower than dogs. The aim of the Islamic people is to literally overtake the Christian or any non-Islamic population. Maybe not in our generation, but if this keeps up our great grandchildren will be fighting for their lives.

I don’t support any Islamic way of life. It has nothing to do with freedom of the people in a democratic country. Democracy enables equal rights for men and women. These equal rights defy all Islamic beliefs.

Muslim women in Scotland do pray in the Mosque.

Yes, you're right. Some allow it. The women have to sit in the back, usually crowded together on a balcony, with hardly any standing room. They aren't allowed below because of their inpurites.

But now you're talking personal feelings versus legal stuff and the two aren't the same. I hear you: I cannot deny people their legal rights, but that doesn't make me comfortable with a number of them as potential citizens.

I don't really care if they segregate themselves in services. After all, Orthodox Jews do, and some Christians as well. And while Christians certainly don't conduct honor killings, there is a significant strain of belief in the US that men are in charge. In fact, it's one of the reasons we as a country have such a low percentage of women in public office, and so many women still self-segregating into lower-paying jobs. Maybe you need to be in the Bible Belt, but I know plenty of women who would never tolerate a woman preacher, so it's a question of degree sometimes. And most Christians also believe that anyone who isn't a Christian is going to hell. They're not killing people about it, but they can be socially really unpleasant.

You do bring up a big point, though. Countries may have to make some hard decisions about immigration. I do know that my own people -- Irish Catholics -- were brutally discriminated against for many, many years. Right now we don't know whether Muslim groups will eventually assimilate or not.

I've been reading this thread and not sure if I should respond or not, but here I go...

Regarding men/women equal rights in religion, let's take the Catholic Church as an example. Is there a woman Pope? Are there women priests or bishops? As Ellemm pointed out, there are many religions in America that do not allow women to advance or lead.

Regarding the sins of one group and how it affects all others, let's take the Catholic Church as an example again. There were about 3,000 deaths in the 911 terrorist bombing. Guess how many young people were sexually abused by Catholic priests? More than 10 times that amount. That's right, the Los Angelese Diocese alone settled a lawsuit with 500.

Yes, the people in the terrorist bombing died, so that's a little different. But in my opinion, those abused have also suffered a type of death, and some did committ suicide and I would imagine many have gone on to become abusers themselves. This type of abuse affects the entire life of it's victimes.

Do you hear an outcry about a new Catholic church being built? Are all Catholics bad because of what the priests have done? Why is the Muslim issue any different?

I think it's different mostly because we don't understand the Muslim faith. I found Edelweiss's comments about their religion interesting and I want to learn more to see if it's really that bad. I think what was done on 911 had more of an impact because it was more violent, sudden, and visible in the media.

But in my mind, the Catholics and the Muslims are in very similar situations. Some bad Muslims did some terrible things and some bad Catholics did some terrible things. That does not mean that all Catholics and all Muslims are bad.

This is pretty repulsive, so if you are sensitive, don't click on the following link.

You know, it's easy to be tolerant if you don't see the way many of these Islamic people live. You should spend a day in Berlin. Germans are fleeing this beautiful city, because the crime rate has escalated to record highs. I had to step down off the curb and make room for groups of women, hidden under their burkas. Do you think they would budge an inch? They are fixated on their stone faced husbands, walking at least ten steps infront of them. If these people want to live that way, fine..then they should, but in their countries.

The Catholic Church with it’s bloody history as well as the sex scandals doesn’t make the Islamic preachings any less threatening. Actually I’m the wrong person to compare the two churches, especially since I don’t advocate any man made religious institution. But just last week a huge Moche was closed down by the German police because they discovered a new terrorist plot in the brewing. Our papers are full of this. And you do know that two of the terrorists responsible for 9/11 planned their attack in a German Mosche, which was closed. No European may attend the Islamic services. Why? Gee, at least anyone can go to a Catholic Mass.

Most interesting are the number of brave Turkish woman that have been coming out of their closets, so to speak. These are people of the Islamic religion that are warning non Islamic people of the hate campaigns going on. These women now live under other identities. Wasn’t the poor woman who’s nose was cut off on the cover of TIMES? Yes, there are good people in the Islamic religion as well. Especially those who warn others of the going ons.

I personally believe in the words of Dalai Lama

May I add:

The Orthodox Jewish women clearly have a lower status in their sect (meredith could respond more accurately here).

In conservative and Old Order Mennonite churches, the women clearly do not have any role in preaching. The men and women sit segregated in the church but at opposite ends of the room. i know this because I attended services with a close dear conservative Mennonite friend. (again Eagleheart might be able to speak better on this since her hubby's family is Mennonite based).

As for Edelweiss' comments: no I don't believe all Muslims treat their women poorly.There are different sects in Islam, just as there is different denominations/sects in Christianity.

I also think that there is mix-up of Islam, Hinduism and Sikhism which I don't purport to understand. The treatment of women by some of the visible minorities (I am sorry, but now I will use this term ...cause we are now talking about people who are a different skin colour which some people might equate as non-Christian, but highly visible within some North American and European communities.)

Did you know that there is a Sikh temple here in Metro Vancovuer that elected a university graduate woman, Sikh herself that is the leader for the temple? She is only in her early 20's. This made the front page of national news here! I'm using the term Sikh, because if we saw an elderly gentleman who was Sikh on the street in his clothing, could we know ourselves he was not Muslim????

I have applied to jobs in the Middle East where there are women's colleges and universities for Muslim women. So not all women are treated poorly.

We can not broadbrush all Muslims as treating their women as secondary. Especially when there are Islamic, university-educated feminists who speak out. Go to the Internet and you will find them.