Orchid you say

"Mountain Ash: It can help a person to assist, to have dual knowledge of dual cultures and languages."

I endervour to do just that.in action in word and as an ongoing
task in an everchanging world.

I just read a fascinating post in the New York Times Op-Ed page and want to share it with everyone on this discussion.

The author is a woman born in the Middle-East - not a Muslim - who became an American citizen 9 years ago. It's a long article, but worth reading IMHO.

I hope you will read it and agree with me that while author Porochista Khakpour is not Muslim, she adds a lot to this discussion:

My Nine Years As a Middle-Eastern American

Whatever you think about what she has to say, you have to agree she expresses herself well. By the way, she is the author of the novel “Sons and Other Flammable Objects,” and a professor of literature at Santa Fe University of Art and Design.

Wonderfully eloquent. And yes, well worth reading. Thanks, Anne.

Thanks Anne. Yes. It's well worth the read!

Yesterday morning I listened to Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf being interviewed by Christiane Amanpour of ABC. Among other things, Imam Rauf referred to this new center as a "cultural center" with an area for "interfaith exchange." (My husband thinks it might be a fairer deal if Muslim leaders showed reciprocal tolerance in permitting a Christian "interfaith" cathedral be built close to Mecca) Amanpour also asked questions about "America's Islamophobia" and those fringe elements who oppose Imam's building project. I did not know that opposition to Imam's plan meant one was "Islamophobic" or "fringe."

Imam Rauf said if he had known beforehand this building would cause such an uproar, he stated unequivically he would never EVER would have gone ahead with the idea. Amanpour oddly did not ask Imam's reaction to Donald Trump's very recent offer to buy the building at a 25% profit to whomever is funding the project (Imam will not disclose that funding information) Trump's offer would certainly have taken this Imam off the hook so to speak, but he rejected Trump's very generous proposal.

Later in the afternoon, I listened to NYC former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, who said, "The people he's hurting here most are the families that have lost loved ones down there. They don't all feel that way but 80 percent or 90 percent feel extremely hurt by this and it's making them relive the pain. They should be the ones to get the most consideration. Not the imam, not me, not the president, not the mayor. They're the ones that are the most affected by this," he said.

I have lived long enough to see people use any type of argument to make THEIR idea seem like "THE right way to go."

My hat is off to Mayor Giuliani, whose opinion appears to be born of the heart and nothing else.

Yet Josie, there is resistance in some communities in Tennessee, California that are resisting a proposed mosque.

How do you explain that? These are not 9/ll disaster sites.

In Canada, it was reported on national tv, that we have 200 mosques. The population of Muslims is predicted to grow to 1 million over the next 10 years.

Canada's census population in 2006 was 31 million, which by now is alot more.

I sense panic...similar to the Cold War in the 1950's, 1960's which led to the construction of military escape bunkers in Canada (one of them has now been turned into a museum) and U.S., when it was fear of the Communists from China, Russia and Korea to attack North America.

While no country is 100% safe, is any country in this world safe? All it takes is a marginalized, mentally unstable/angry person to shoot a bunch of people (as it has happened in the U.S.), it doesn't matter what colour, religious background, etc. that person is.

Alot of immigrants who become citizens will become your most ardent nationalists..because they have sacrificed so much to come to Canada or the U.S. They don't take their citizenship and constitutional rights for granted.

(I admittedly flaunt my Canadian passport --proudly when I stand in line to fly the airlines and at the international border checkpoints whenever I travel. )

Also moderate Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc., don't make news press coverage, because it's not exciting reading in order to sell news media.

That's reality and the reality is the boring majority who just want to live life peacefully side-by-side whether it's here in North America, or in Germany or in Iran.


I have to go and do other stuff off-line.

In Germany 2,700 Moshees have been built since 1975. I couldn't find any statistic on what the total number is. Probably because many groups worship in their cellars, school yards, parking lots and parks. We have over 5 million Muslims in Germany. About half that number are here "illigally"...through family adoptions. Now how many times does Germany fit in Canada?

According to the 2009 Muslim yearbook 23-25 million Muslims live in Europe. And several billion people live under the islamic religion in the world. So open your doors Canada! You got much more room than we do.

Do you know Canada that a huge part of it is inhabitable, many thousands of kms. north where there are no roads, swampy land or Arctic land? All one has to do is look at map of Canada. The British Columbia coastline hardly has any villages, much less cities because it's all virgin protected forest, etc. Interior B.C. has several mountain ranges and parts are desert. It's shocking enough to see it even for me, from the airplane, the vast areas of open wilderness. Not arable land,no roads of any length, no nothing at all. No wonder why the Europeans love it.

I know about the road situation because dearie has had to plan bike trips solo to cycle across Canada, selection of any roads gets very thin once, one goes north less than 400 kms. northward in British Columbia and Ontario from each province's most southern tip. A person can cycle for several hundred kms. in certain parts of Canada...and encounter no public building, no food. It helps to be strong ...in mind, body.

So Canada continues to have its immigration application process (which is actually rigorous, I've helped my father fill out forms for relatives....when I was a teenager since I could use a typewriter at that time.), medical test requirements, etc. Backup sponsorship by Canadian relatives or employers for immigrant applicant. This all has to be documented.

Sure there are some queue jumpers but it's not at the level of some European countries. But don't know if that's just perceived, or Europe is just geographically closer.

below a bunch of danish visited vancouver this past week to find out why integration of immigrants is less "problematic" in scale.. It amused me that they asked academics/professors. Danes should have consulted Vancouver immigrant service managers and counsellors, plus community leaders who are well-versed and closer to the ground of what is truly happening.

Given your half-joking suggestion, Edelweiss, then it might be a reflection that the concept of national identity for Germany, Denmark, etc....it's harder for them to let go of the concept of German blood/heritage/history/language and integrate. And just ship people somewhere else, right?

Heck English and French languages in Canada is imported. Aboriginal languages (over 50 of them) are indigenous to Canada, not our 2 official languages.



Immigrants here do not get free housing, clothing, etc. i can confirm this since we have had relatives immigrate to Canada in past 25 years. My father was on paper, the "sponsor". As soon as relative got to Canada, they had to find a job..which they did. And find their own housing which we would give them tips.

I hope I have clearly explained in a practial way how immigrants under the normal process in Canada are dealt with at the beginning.

No wonder, why I can't relate to boomer reminscing about sock hops, dances, music, dating, etc.

I lived in different world...at times when I was teenager. I saw this side up close and personal in my extended family.

This continues to be a very thought-provoking discussion. I agree with Orchid on my impression of a sense of panic. And I go back to FDR and his famous proclamation about fear:

Specifically, what he said was related to the Depression and the economic times, but it is still relevant. Here's the exact quote, from the fifth paragraph of his first inaugural address in 1933:



Worth thinking about, isn't it?

I beg to differ Anne. Closing your eyes, and sticking your head in the sand does not make it go away.


Hitler wrote " Mein Kampf". In his book he clearly stated everything he was planning to do. You know what? Nobody read it. That's right. The Germans saw only the advantages. Him building new streets, low unemployment etc. I see the same thing happening here. Nobody listens to what the Muslims are preaching. This is not panic on my part. I won't be alive when it escalates on your grounds like it has in Germany. I have nothing to panic about. But I do worry for my children and grandchildren.

I'm proud to say that my father was a very important key to one of the assination attempts on Hitler. Sadly enough it didn't go through. So I was brought up with a keen awareness of politics and what is behind it.

I will not participate in this thread anymore. I don't think my posts are being read or thought through. And as for you, Orchid. I have had enough of your low blow insults. You have turned this into a personal vendetta. It's too bad that you can't hold a correct political discussion. Get off your high horse on race. It's not always about race.

Don't bother to send me a message. You are blocked!