I can't say that I have, Lola. I do know that all but two were martyred, tho. Judas hung himself, although my dad (a minister) once told me that isn't for certain. John (James' brother) was the only one who died a natural death. The others were killed by the hands of others - Peter, being hung upside on a cross. The famous picture depicting it is used in the YouTube E*N*D*G*A*M*E*S on another thread.
I think, until they each died, (with the exception of Judas) they helped establish the church (fishers of men), some preaching to the Gentiles, others preaching to the Jews. Could the theological struggle you speak of between Peter and Paul be because they were preaching to different sects - Peter to the Jews and Paul(Saul - a grafted Apostle) to the Gentiles.
Or, did you mean immediately after Jesus left them? If so, that would have made for a dramatic scene, I bet.

chatty, why did you stop going?

You're spot on, Gims. I'd have loved to have been a fly on the wall during their time. There is a Church in Rome which has a part of St Peter's chain and another which has a relic of St Thomas, which is thought to be the finger which was dipped into Jesus' wound. Catholics have a lot of these relics and sometimes I wonder whether other Christian communities are just interested in them.

Have you kept your Dad's sermons?

Even if a child's age of countability is age 8, I don't think kids understand sin or baptism. I was baptized 'round that age, and I had no idea what I was doing. I went forward, because everybody else was getting baptized. Over the years I've grown in my faith, but looking back, there was no meaningful depth to my actions. I suppose I knew I was being dipped in water to wash away sin. But how much of a concept does a youngster have of what constitutes sin? Some scripture even says all you have to do is think a wrong thought and it's sin. Well please. What human doesn't have their thoughts go off-track now and again? That's why I remark once-in-a-while, "It's hard being human!" LOL...

Thats honest of you to say jabber. I thinking that a childs understanding of sin the rites or ritules thir undergoing all might be helped or hindered by how centrel the church is to the childs familie and how it is descused within the familie. That might influenses an childs understanding at 8-13 etc.

hoever how many of us have had trouble with trulie getting to grips with everlasting or eternity or any such concepts? I not sure its possible to get it as a tenager and even if we think we did get it we certinly do get it a lot better now, with a bit of maturity in our lifes. at lest that how it should go

athiests and hope lola...

i had some kinda conversasions and hope was an earthlie thing brought about my changres of attitude and events.

the trouble i had and it was a trouble was i just could't get it with them "if thrs no god thirs no afterlife" ...so all conversasion was confined to the hear and now....

i think i inicalie couse much offense with one lad as i din't agree with him, could't stop myself (inicalie and necassarily ofensivlie) trying even subcounsilslie to talk him into a thir is a god position.

One very very good point did come out of it for me is he reallie reallie dose live a good life, good as in enjoyable and good as in good to others becouse he reallie dose belive thre onlie is an heer and now, nuthing else but heer and now.

in fact my last partner would have been agnostic or nerlie athiest but belived in auroas around the bodie and certine types of energie like thought having an energie, so that type of diffrence, could sway them on a good evening to thir being a god lol.

I think to thir constant hartach they had me,(for 10 yrs) then got engaged to marry a minister 2 years after we had split up.
ise't irony in lifestyle choises wonderfull or am i just whiked lol.

that sounds intresting, could you expand on that a bit if you have time plz?

gims could you give me the therie behind this, not necasarily the passagies but the mind set, that has us covered by christ dieing on the cross? (i do rember you said repent and obliged to do so but why ise't it necassary?)

thanks

Celt, I've just read what I wrote on discussing "hope" with atheists and realised how half-baked it was. In terms, of what I really wanted to convey which is, I would like to find out from atheists where they find "hope". Those of us with faith, we do our best with everything we have, with what we have, and leave the rest to God. I understand that each individual is born with a sense of optimism. But, surely there must be a big difference between "optimism" and "hope"?

Celtic,
I have a problem with people who say one thing and do another. Now
my adoptive parents 'n grandparents didn't go around preaching and flaunting The Bible. But they taught by their actions. They were good, hardworking, honest, loving humans. And I learnt more from their actions than I ever got from any loud, Bible pounding, preacher or daily churhgoer. As a kid, I knew folks' that nearly lived in the Church. But back at their home, they were unholy people a kid shouldn't be around. Give me the ole time farmers! Those were GODLY folks!

You've heard the term 'washed by His blood,' right? The premise is rooted in the shedding of His blood (innocent blood) for the sins of humankind. By virtue of this act, and through our belief in His Supreme Sovereignty, our sins are removed. The Bible instructs us to ask forgiveness (repent) for the sins we realize we've committed as well as the ones we're not consciously aware of. Yet, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9)
Couldn't help it --- had to stick one in...