Have you asked her if she could come over and help you move the few boxes that she might want kept at your place? Perhaps give her a limit here..ie. 5 boxes, etc. Put the ball in her court to do some cleanup of her stuff and discarding.

I feel sorry for her because she is not properly using her support systems (each of her parents) and at same time, she probably feels people are distancing themselves from her.

Not all teenagers want to runaway from home. They just want their freedom at home but not take responsibility for being part of a family/household. This was the case for myself and all my siblings plus many of our closest friends.

As for her, seeing you cry in frustration when you expressed her lack of communication...she probably WILL remember this particularily if you don't cry in front of her over this sort of stuff.

I recall very vividly in a rip-roaring argument with my mother and demanded that she as a mother, be more like a "friend", so that I could hold a conversation with here, blah, blah, blah. I think I was in my early 20's, old enough and responsible, etc. My mother suddenly broke down and cried. My father intervened gently and asked me not to be so critical of her.

I realized how selfish I was ...that I was asking her to fit my definition of mothering. ...when she had tried her very best to look after me all my life at that time.

Your daughter will appreciate your civility and warmth at this time. Even if she is not clearly expressing her appreciation to you at the moment. Would you still have her live at your new apartment, if she was willing to sleep in the living rm. later on? Or would that be always a temporary arrangement if you should rent a smaller place?

Wow, you sound like a really good mother. I didn't read the whole thread but I can really feel for what you are going through. The father is definitely sabotaging your efforts at a reasonable relationship with your daughter.
For people who are not separated or divorced, the kid's STUFF issue is just as big a bother. We still have a lot of both sons' belongings, from childhood stuff to power tools. As they move out to places they can afford, they discover they don't have space for all the junk they have. And it's so hard to sort THEIR stuff, so it just sits in boxes stacked as nicely as possible. When you move, you're going to have to deal with it; so give the daughter time "daughter, in 2 weeks I will be moving. Since you won't tell me what you're planning to do, on X day I will drop all your stuff at your father's house"
You're still going to get the blame for whatever happens, but you have to take care of yourself first.
I think in the long run, your daughter is going to end up back with you because of the lack of care at Dad's house. I wish you a lot of luck with this, I was the product of a divorce and it's a very hard road to be on, especially with teenaged daughters!

I have asked her so many times to come over and sort out her stuff. She just doesn't want to do it. She is a major procrastinator. It will interfere with her social life, partying on the weekends etc.

If I move to a place without an extra room for her it would depend on the situation. If she felt unsafe at her Dad's of course she could stay on the couch. But at the moment she does not want to commit to anything. No matter how much I try to explain to her that she needs to let me know where she wants to live her answer is "I DON'T KNOW" This answer drives me crazy.

So, I will try to find a place that I can afford that may have a small den or something that she can move into if she decides later to.

The big problem is the housing in the city of live in. The rent is $2200 to $3000 for a house. You can rent a floor in a house for approx.1300 to $2000, meaning the basement is usually rented out.

I'm trying to get a full 3 bed house with a basement or den but just can't afford to pay such a high rent on one income for a full house.

Not the easiest situation to be in that is why I need her to tell me. I am not going to all the expense of moving and then later she says she wants to move in. I can't afford to move again to accommodate her. She just doesn't get that she will make many changes and decisions in the future.

Kate

If you give her a deadline it will move the responsibility from your shoulders to hers.
"I told you that stuff would be gone on X day"
and stick to your word.

Thanks Madeline, that makes sense I will do that.
Kate

If you can't bring yourself to get rid of her things, I see nothing wrong with giving her a deadline, then taking them to her. That way you can do it guilt-free.

Last night my border (17 yrs old) sneaked his girlfriend in. My room is right beside his (which is my former daughters room)
He came in late when I was already in bed. He pays rent and is a good kid but here I am facing this boyfriend/girlfriend situation all over again. First my daughter won't move back unless I allow her to have over nights at her boyfriends, now this kid wants to sneak girls in.

He thought I didn't know but when he came out of his room I asked him if his friend had left. He looked kind of sheepish. Guess she went out the window. I told him that if he had his own entrance, separate apt it would be none of my business as he pays rent. But, he lives in the house with all of us and it's sending a bad message to my 15 year old son. Next he will want to do it.

He knows about my issues with my daughter as we have talked about it. I asked him if his Mom would allow this and he said "well if it was late and she had no place to go" So I said, she would allow the girl to sleep with you in your bed? he said no and then said he was sorry. Really I'm beginning to think I am the only Mom who has any rules.

It was not my intention to make him feel bad and I think he knows this. This is a real catch 22 as he does pay rent. But he is in our living space. Right beside my room too which is not the greatest for me, privacy etc.

I am getting so tired of this. Want to just ship both the kids to their Dad's and get a one bedroom apartment for me.

Frustrated.

If you are moving to a smaller apartment, then this boarder and his girlfriend situation will no longer exist under same roof?

I'm not moving to a smaller apartment. I have to rent a house so I can rent out a room or two to international students. It actually works out cheaper than renting an apartment. I have pets and apartments don't take pets, well dogs anyway.

A three bed apartment, and there is no such a thing where I live, is almost the same rent as a house. If you get a house with one or two extra bedrooms your rent will be less than if you rent the apartment.

I have been a single Mom for 12 years and sometimes have to do this. Although we are in an economic crisis, the rents where I live have not gone down at all. Just the way it is.

He is avoiding me at the moment. Does not want to be around unless my son is home. I have no idea if he thinks I'm being unreasonable or not. Thems the rules so he will have to deal with it or move out. International students are the best bet, they pay more and are more respectful of house rules. They are also here to learn the language and culture and go to school so they have no time for the shananigans our teens get up to.

kate, wow, you're getting it from all ends. THis is so typical of the teens today, but I'm with you. I'm not for it in my own home. No way. Someone very close to me thinks I'm crazy for not letting the kids and their boy/girlfriends sleep together under my roof because she does it and thinks it's totally fine. She says they're doing it anyway. Well, so they are, but I believe in respect, especially at your children's ages. Hang tough and don't let go of your morals and values for their sake.

I think it's a great idea to rent when you need to. That way, there may be room for your daughter should she decide to come home.