dancer: i did not see your post. i will answer your last question first. where i live, the stabbings are in the areas most concentrated with hispanics but also in other areas that are not concentrated with hispanics. no matter where the stabbings are, i feel the same way - senseless violence. that is why i am trying to understand it.

in my experience, i have met social workers who work with hispanic teens and try to give them a place to show their colors and express the good parts of gang culture so they feel more supported in the culture (this is in schools).

i am trying to learn why it is considered ok to slice or stab people for any reason. a lot of it seems to be teens or early twenties, but not all. i am trying to find out what social prescriptions they have to act out in such violent ways.

i want to know what their families tell them about carrying knives and stabbing people. it happens so often, that their families must have some diaglog about it.

i want to know what the church is teaching on this issue.

i just want to understand at what point it becomes an option to stab someone.

the way i see it is that as human beings, we all have issues and obstacles. i may not have to struggle to survive, but maybe i have other struggles which are challenging. i don't think poverty or disenfranchisement gives a person an excuse to be a killer.

i think part of the reason i don't want to enable killers by giving them an excuse has to do with my background. my father was very, very poor and was a completely self-made man. he had to fight others on the street to survive in a big city, but that was not his preference. when the others stopped attacking him and he worked to create his own business, he was the most gentle man, in spirit, you would ever want to know. not everyone has the inner or outer strength of my father, i realize that. and living in a hostile environment has got to make you a little crazy. i get that. i just want to know how it is taught that it is ok for young males to stab each other. young females are not stabbing each other (with a few exceptions), so it has to be socially prescribed and i want to learn the dynamics to better understand why this is happening with such frequency.

also, another interesting side note is that the dominant culture just ignores it all-together. i imagine when they are reading the paper they are saying, "what is wrong with these people?" but they are not writing letters to the editor or protesting, just probably becoming more racist and bigoted against "these people." i want to understand because it really, really bugs me that this is happening and that no one is talking about it.

I'm not real sure what my nationality is, to tell the truth.
My birth momma was a real secretive gal. She had lots of kids
and they had different dads. My son married an Italian girl
while he was in the paratroopers. So I have Italian grandbabies.
I don't understand why anyone cares what color or shape or
what speech anyone else has. People are people. And that's that!
Racism? Who cares. I do think jealousy causes a lot of unnecessary problems, however!

DJ and seek: appreciate serious attempts that each of you have undertaken over a long period of time about self-identity vs. what society/dominant culture would like to impose/expect everyone else to conform. Both of your most recent remarks, reflect you each have explored it...in your lifetime so far, not within the last few week.

jabber: To me, some youth who seem incredibly "lost" and troubled, probably could benefit to improved self-development if:

a) they looked seriously at their own family background and see patterns of behaviour, both healthy and self-destructive/unhealthy patterns of behaviour. Even self-expression. And discern if certain behaviours from parents, etc. have influenced their own development. Or to even understand the pressures/societal/cultural expectations that were imposed on their parents (and even grandparents.

Sometimes making serious changes in oneself and becoming closer to certain family members, must begin by the person to look at the present and historical change of events/influences in family and bigger society.

And the above for some people, requires support and expertise of a trained counsellor.

And only by this, one can make better changes for one's own behaviour and improve relationships with other people.

I feel this is important contribution to a person's sense of "completeness" because if a person doesn't believe in any religion or even if person does, what grounds a person to his/her family, friends and community??? Our self-identity is shaped by family, friends, community and society.

I disagree strongly with you jabber, when I think of all my nieces and nephews, some of who are 1/2 Chinese. From babyhood onward, they are immediately plunked into events and acitivities involving both sides of their families.

And over and over and over again, there would be enough 2nd generation, 3rd generation and mixed /intercultural children who would vouch that some believe they benefit from knowing and choosing as an option from 2-3 different maternal and paternal cultures plus dominant cultures.

At a more superficial, but visible level is ie. great fusion of cooking, music, fashion and literature, comes from the very artists and practictioners who know consciously and blend/fuse 2/3 cultures in their work. Stuff like this doesn't magically happen in a vaccum and not at all quickly. Usually the artist has spent considerable time of analysis and exploration..before something "fused" and transformed is created for our enjoyment.

So I disagree jabber,....knowing and transforming one's home/birth cultures.....benefits ALL of us and society for the future.

I have never, even in my youth seen how the color of a persons skin made them better or worse than anyone else. I still feel the same way. I for some strange reason do not see color when dealing with people. There are good people in every race and I am sad to say rotten slime balls in every race as well. Their color isn't the problem, their actions are. Caring and acting on whether a person is rich or poor is another form of discrimination. How does ones bank account make them better or worse than the next person? There are wealthy as well as poor scoundrels in the world. There are so many forms of discriminatioin present today that racism is just one of the crowd. They are all despicable!!! Rodney King (I think) said it best: Can't we all just get along?

It's difficult jumping back in here, after 3 months off. This is an interesting topic and I want to add. I guess I will simply return to the original question, "Have you experienced racism?"

Personally, sexism has played a part in my life. I know few women who can't say the same.

I am of the middle class, white persuasion and have not experienced racism in America, personally.

I do know, however, that it exists. It is very real.

Am I a racist? I would love to say no, but I must admit that I hold my purse a bit tighter when I am walking around in the black (also the poorest) neighborhoods of my city. Do I like that I do this? I do not.

I find myself a bit unempathetic for the Native Americans in our school who consistently find themselves under scrutiny of the "attendance police" for missing too many days or coming late.

I live in a white middle class world, the world of priveledge. When another culture does not live up to what I have been taught is correct, I will admit that my first instinct is to look down on that culture.

I am not proud to say that I have racist tendencies, but in my heart, I believe we all do. It's recognizing these beliefs and questioning them that help us grow.

I am now going to hit submit before I erase this whole entry.

i think people who say racism is not an issue, should instead say "racism is not an issue for me because i am priviledged and don't have to deal with it."

even if you don't have to deal with people treating you like crap and discriminating against you, if you have a tv you know that others are discriminated against and treated like crap. you must have noticed that white males have the most priviledge, then white females (i think many white females are unconscious of their priviledge, i know i was).

with the recent election you must have at least heard that many people were voting against obama strictly because he was black. i am white, but i read and saw quotes of people saying they "could not vote for a black man." i got hate email from a very nice white man who evidently thought i shared his racist sentiments. i sent a "reply all" to the group he sent to saying i was offended at the email. but this was a potential client and he will probably not want to work with me now, but i don't care.

as a white woman who has done some work on my issues, let me say that i don't think you can completely get rid of racists thoughts and feelings, but i do think everyone can try to become more conscious . . . especially of their own priviledge.

the way it sunk in to me was to think no matter how bad i think i might have had it, a person of color would have had it worse, only because of the color of their skin. so if i suffered from being a female, a female of color would suffer that much more. and so on.

if you are a female, hopefully, you can see that you have been oppressed by the dominant culture which is white male. patriarchy. anyway, just responding to the posts where people say there is no racism or they are color blind or whatever. if you don't see color then you are not paying attention!

OH really!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was born in Gary,Indiana and lived in a neighborhood for years that was poor and 80% black and/or hispanic. I grew up with best friends that were and are still black and we are good friends to this day and YES, they visit my home when in town. I also visit theirs.

In those days Anno it wasn't like it is today, you could walk down the street without clutching your purse to your chest. Times have changed and not for the better, in all neighborhoods.

I never became priviledged as it has been put here until I was married for a few years to a boy from what some would surely call the wrong side of the tracks, the side I lived on. We never felt underpriviledged, we had a comfortable home, good ethnic meals, were surrounded with relatives, and great neighbors.

With my second marriage I became one of the priviledged people, oh hell, we were rich. I got married in the Millionaires Club in Chicago for heavens sake. But would have married him anywhere, anytime. We lived high off the hog, sprauling lake home, boat and anything I wanted I got. Was I or he a better person than anyone else, NOPE! I have never changed, and living here in Vegas you learn very fast there is no color boundries. Blacks, whites, hispanics and asians, all work side by side as dealers, hostess's, waiters and waitress's and Casino owners. Those coming here of a higher money bracket are also of all colors. My dearest friend on this planet is half black and half asian, she is gorgeous and loving. In my family we are Italian/Syrian and Lithuanian. Married into our family are men from both Mexico and Spain. Also a black Judge who is my sons Godfather. So when I say I do not see color, it doesn't meke me color blind, I just don't use color as a guage as to whether to like and trust a person. Am I more careful in some areas than others, of course, I'm also not stupid. These gangs are also non bigoted and they recruit all colors of garbage.

I keep my gun handy in my home, living alone, and I would not hesitate to shot anyone, be they black, white, hispanic, asian or a purple or green intruder trying to break in...

So you see I am not color blind after all, and I am an equal opportunity shooter and defender of my home...

That said, I remove myself from this subject to go on to post under happier threads...

i am also going to take a break because i do not want to dominate this discussion.

I hope you will have a very MERRY CHRISTMAS Seek. Full of friendships and loves from each and everyone. I took a tea break and am snarfing down some fruitcake, yummy!!

happy holidays to you and thanks for the good wishes. i am exhausted and in serious need of something! massage? tea? christmas makes me cranky and i don't even have a houseful of kids anymore. it makes you wonder how you ever got through it!