thers no offense taken to the above lol i am enjoying this topic but its making me squirme too. I have most certinlie been bigeted in my life as thats what soictie socialized me into not proud of it but its true. As an adult iv to well iv some responsibilitie to adress and change that if i want to get to a place that people are just people. I am not done with this learning yet and its still continuing, i am still finding little pockets of stuff that i am working to get rid of to move beyond the place of judment thats based on bigotrie or stereotypes. But then again arn't most of us?
those thats gotten their congrandulasions and go on share so i can get their too.

As seek says she feels, when I was much younger I also felt cultureless (my family background is Scotch-Irish, German, Welsh, English, French -- pretty WASPy [White Anglo-Saxon Protestant for anyone who doesn't know the term]). In those days too I was against the Vietnam war so much I no longer could stand listening to all the reasons for it, seeing boys my age being shipped to their doom and coming back with scrambled minds. I moved to and lived in Italy, married an Italian, and my first child was born there...(fast forward)...we were _quite_ poor (even homeless for a while), and being poor living in Italy (or anywhere, I'm sure) exposes some of the uglier sides of the culture.

Another thing happened. Before my daughter was born, Italians thought of me as American. After she was born, they saw me as Italian, and a failed one at that because I didn't know any of the proper and right ways to raise my child. Living away from and having no access to my culture of origin -- white, privileged, suburban USA -- I could start to appreciate the positive things about it. (Okay, peanutbutter was one, maple syrup was another. One of the biggest things I missed was the propensity for American citizens to band together and work to solve civic problems. Even to form something as simple as the PTA. There was none of that in Italy. Also, being form the Midwest, I missed being able to speak directly -- I say something, you respond, no one beating around the bush all the time. I find that in Maryland too, though -- celtic asked about regional differences. That's one of them.)

As someone pointed out above, we learn from our parents and our neighborhoods about who we are, what's correct, how to behave. As we grow older, we can expand that thinking (if our education is progressive, that is.) Just as all young children call all animals "doggy" but then learn that some of these doggies can bite you or play with you, others can fly and swim and have other names.

Culture is all in the mind. That's a basic principal and I do believe it's a helpful one to help understand that it's changeable. Tribes have been moving and invading and being conquered for thousands of years. There's no such thing as cultural purity -- jeez, didn't we learn that from WWII?

Another basic principal is that human beings are primarily spiritual beings, not physical ones, all with the capacities to acquire the attributes of God -- i.e., loving, caring, kind, generous, trustworthy, etc. etc.

The geographical stereotypes in the USA are alive and strong. Last year, a white friend from New Jersey made her first trip to the south....I was surprised to hear of her uncomfortableness even going into quick stops to purchase a drink. Her feelings didn't seem to be associated with the RACE of the people she encountered but rather just with southerners in general. She felt that she stood out...I thought she looked like everyone else..just sounded a litttle different...LOL

Seek, I certainly understand your not identifying with American patriotism...I have similar thoughts and feelings...but for me, it's kinda like trying to rectify my feelings with my FAMILY of origin...it is what it is and I can't totally dissassociate from the connection.

Verrra interesting and rich thread...I keep turning away from my work computer to do a little reading from the forum on my personal one.

My son and wife and three granddaughters moved to S. C.; we visited them this fall. Didn't hear one complaint of any mistreatment by anyone. I don't feel uncomfortable down south.
I've had plenty of uncomfortable moments right here in the North.
And I've lived my entire life in NY State.

Yep Jabber...my point was that her feelngs were most likely due to her perceptions rather than reality...

i just received an angry, private message telling me, in effect, to keep my mouth shut about this issue. this is par for the course. i will take a break.

Seek, no one here has the right to send you a private message telling you to keep your mouth shut about any subject except for Dotsie and/or her assistant JJ. NO ONE ELSE!!!

If anyone is disturbed by your comments then they can read other threads and stay out of this one.

I believe all the posts here including yours have been honest and interesting in their ideas. Please don't think everyone is close minded on some issues. This is an upsetting subject to some and possibly for good reason, but having said that I also want to emphasize everyones right to say what they feel as long as it is not attacking any one person or their beliefs. This is still a country of free speech for the most part. We need to be kind ladies to one another.

Sorry to hear that seek (and whoever else) might be asked to censor themselves on this topic.

There are also some hugely missing messages perhaps discussed thus far? This thread also includes: stereotyping and intercultural relationships which can, but not always, privilege, racism, etc.

Am I allowed to change the title of this thread so that people feel more comfortable?

Last night I was at lovely private dinner party with some people. These people were my partner's friends which also included their 2 adult children that played with his 2 children when they were all kids.

The conversation was great and ranged across: art, business, including current economy, international business personal relationships, organizational dynamics and influence of ex-pat corporate firm culture vs. local country corporate culture,etc. etc. I was the only non-white, but I didn't bring up such topics...it was inevitable topics would be discussed 'cause:

a) 1 of the grown children, son is working in finance, as a Canadian overseas in a major international bank with a strong Asian market presence and elsewhere for last 100 years. Firm has a Scottish historic root. The son has been working with clients in mergers and acquisitions for past few years, with clients in Korea, Japan and China. Of course, inevitable any discussion of cross-cultural relationships there includes the Australians and New Zealanders.

Lots of discussion about dominant culture of corporate North America in business vs. local corporate culture of a Japanese or any other Asian grown/local company. Rather uncomfortable for all these folks, it was ..exciting.

More later. I have to work now.

Racism is a difficult subject. It is so easy, when discussing racism, to feel that one is being preached at by others. I enjoy the open discussion and I know that I can opt out anytime I am feeling too uncomfortable.

I believe racism is more talked about in American than most places. However, it exists in all the places I have ever visited. I think that all cultures, groups, countries, etc, have a need to feel superior to someone else. This isn't, in and of itself, a bad thing. But, it can, and does become a negative when it is used to put another group down.

A lot of racism, around the world, as well as sterotyping is based on ignorance. We simply don't know what we don't know.

I am enjoying this discussion.

"White, priviledged, suburbian." This is a priviledged life? Why, pray tell. From where I am sitting, being white and coming from suburbia is NOT a priviledge anymore, it is off putting and in fact, what most young people and those familar with their culture are against. Voting in Obama shows us this! The power is OVER, White, suburbian upper and middle class!

( I'm SO,SO sorry, seek, that you recieved such an evil email. The he** with them, carry on.)

NO ONE wants to be white and middle class anymore! Look at our television shows, our music, etc...?! Our popular shows and movies are about the lower class, other races than "White," gays, and other minority groups.

Wake up, American, it's not safe to be "White suburbian," anymore! What's more, no one wants to hear about that sub culture either!

I think it IS a culture to be "White and Priviledged," as it was in the past. The culture involves country clubs, fear of blacks and employing Hispanics, eating certain foods that are "American," and living a certain way! Of COURSE you have a "culture," when you are raised "white and suburbian," after all, your neighborhoods were full of tradition that you made for yourselves when you decided to live away from other races and cities!

Personally, the last thing I ever wanted to be was "White and suburbian," but I "pass," and I belonged to the country clubs, I just didnt' get it.

I believe that if you really look, seek and others, you will find your culture there.

Dancer