JJ, thanks for taking care of this while I was out having fun.
I appreciate it.

is this reseolved now?

I am confused as to who sent what to whom and if it was a misunderstanding or some member took it upon themselfs to inappropriatlie tell another to hush. Thats just retorick and i don't need to know, reallie.

what i do need to know is for whatever reason are we doing something wrong, i am not aware of anyone being labled or targeted or disrespected but i am also an outsider to your countrie.
If so is it wrong enough that we stopp this chatt as this topic is unlocked and i know topics get locked when their a "sumthing wrong" untill that something gets sorted then i take it that its still ok for the discussion to contiunue.


the question is is people still feeling ok to post and continue the descusion or have i just logged in at a awkward time? or is this now dead in the water becouse we all feel intiminated, feel unsure weather people are being hurt, feel insecure in posting for any reason, or just feel to cross?

this topics has manie tangents but most chats do and some questions evolve as they grow and include more mebers adding their experinses. therfore inclusive to everyone surlie a good thing, to heer from dominent and minoritie groups of any kind, isen't it?

I wase't aware that the class system in america was as clearlie defined as some people have outlined its good to know its happening, i would love to know the generall things that define one person from one class and another to another class.

Is it the same as the uk class system, what is the class stratas, how is their movment between classes, is it econimics or financial standing or is it educasional and workbased?

in the uk you can be broke, educated or uneducated but still be midd to upper class depending upon other factors?

Is the movemnt within class blind to cultural subdivision or race (in its preoper definision) I am asking becouse id like to know and also perhapps answereing will start the chatting again.

In the 1900's USA, there was Old Money vs. New Money (or No Money) and Old Money looked down on anyone who wasn't. Now it's just about conspicuous consumption, everyone looking like they have money. Class is determined more by the car you drive (especially in Cali!) than whether you do or do not have money. And now that everyone spends wads of money on status symbols (whether they have money or not) the concept of class has become a joke as there doesn't seem to be much of it in any economic strata.

Which is not to say there is no Us vs. Them -- but some of the lines have blurred. And some will never be.

thanks meridith.

is it soleie based on ecconimics or are their class customes ie what time food is eaten at, job perspectives, types of occupasion.

In uk its about all that and not just cash, getting more blured as time and culture changies too.

we got aristockricay think that old monie in your terms landed genertrie type thing,
upper middle class,
middle class
upper working class.
lower working class
and the underclass.

is their onlie two or 3 in your culture old cash, new cash and no cash?

how dose ethinicitie fit into the class system as id think old monie exclude anyone not wasp like.

i was confused inicalie with your term of WASP (not yours but threads)as its White AngloSaxon, Protestant. But thers anglosaxon within the states then?

oh and i just glade that it was you (md) who willing to start chatting again lol typical of you and something i admire you for

Thank you Celtic!

I say the lines are blurred because in many neighborhoods you have people buying in who can't afford to -- with the recent housing & financial crash this may change -- but even when I was a kid, you could figure out economic class by the neighborhood someone lived in. So it's harder to know who'd "middle" or "upper-middle" or "upper" in some cases because people have bought homes out of their price range, cars they can't afford, and other items to make them appear rich.

However, the lower class (new immigrant, not English-speaking, not necessarily here legally) is easily defined by certain culture and occupations. Here in Cali it's mostly Mexican and other Hispanics, the maids and dishwashers and strawberry pickers.

However, the middle and upper class (again, distinctions that are fading) are composed of a wide variety of ethnic groups including WASP, Persian, Chinese, etc etc etc. -- many of whom may be first generation. And 1st generation ethnic immigrants living in high-priced neighborhoods are more likely to actually HAVE money, as opposed to some of their neighbors who may economically over-extend. Not absolutes, but my observations.

BTW, we use the acronym WASP to mean Protestant of Anglo (English) or German background. Sometimes the term is used for all northern Euro Protestants (including Scandinavian.)

1st generation ethnic groups generally don't intermarry but 2nd and 3rd are more likely to. Their kids all have the same toys an go to the same schools regardless of ethnic. So school is the first melting pot. University, especially.

The second is food, the great equalizer. Families may cook traditional fare at home, but if you go to any one of our 1,500 varieties of ethnic restaurant, everyone eats everyone else's food.

This is multi-culti SoCali. People with money and education will associate and be friends with people of any ethnicity with equal money and education. But we don't party with our maids and strawberry pickers.

We don't have gentry in the sense you do. Alliances are formed by education, neighborhood, and ideology.

almost 2am so I'm done commenting tonight!

Chatty Lady....I'm quite impressed with your Ma Kettle explanation...great job!

interesting discussion of class. i think distinctions vary by locale. where i grew up . . . in an upper middle class enclave . . . you had all stratas living in the same small town/rural region. the rich and poor all went to school and to church together. in those days, catholic school was cheap and there were always scholarships, so practically anyone could afford to go. and the public schools were good at that time, as well.

it took me awhile to sort out the class thing for myself. i remember an incident in high school that got me thinking about it. i was standing with a group of the in-crowd and someone walked by with the "wrong" shoes on and a comment was made to them. i felt terrible for the person being singled out, but i also didn't know these things were so important. then i started noticing the rich kids showing up in the fancy cars and i began paying more attention.

my family had money and a nice home, so it took me a really long time to notice the difference between class . . . my family's origins were blue collar and the money was blue collar money. most of the other people with money in town were of white collar origin. i could FEEL the distinction, but i didn't know what it was until i was almost 50.

in my upper middle class neighborhood, there were dirt poor families . . . really living in practically shacks or huts. of course that is all gone now and now to live in the town you must be practically filthy rich.

class is a big deal in the u.s.

there are distinctions between kind of an innocent, dirt poor and the tough ghetto poor . . . the middle class is almost invisible because everyone pretends to have more than they do and like someone else said most people strive to drive upscale cars (which are often leased).

i never bought into the car thing at all. i have always had modest cars, and come to think of it, never have had piles of money . . . never aspired to.

i think there is also spiritual class . . . people of higher spiritual vibration, even if poor, can seem not poor.

thanks for bringing up the piece about class.

i would like to read more about how it is for others in other areas in the u.s. and around the world.

Seek, I am happy to see you back. I am sorry that you felt that your childhood was devoid of soul, or what I define as soul.

Monied classes, people with money and definitions.

I am from old money and BIG old money. My family came from Venice to Santa Barbara, California with big money to escape the war in Europe.

My grandfather drove a chevy truch and was a millionaire several times over.

My realitives, for example, own a mall, all the land under it and so much that they are worth over a billion dollars, they drive a Chevy vehicle.

My uncle lives in Hope Ranch, right near Micheal Jackson's ranch and many other newly rich. He has 5 Jags, he collects them and each has it's own garage next to his three story glass home on his own beach. He drives his Buick to work everyday. In fact, he and my father, who also lives in the same way, like to race their Buicks between CA and AZ.

I belonged to the best country club in my city and played the violin as a child as well as tennis. I had lessons in swimming so took trophies in that as well, and often. I was a ranked tennis player in my state.

My trophies are in a closet at my father's home, as are all my awards, my winning the state's science fair twice in a row, etc... Nothing is on the wall of my home or my parents.

I modeled for years and years and there is only one layout framed in my home. That was a gift from a friend who owns a framing shop and wanted to say "thanks," for teaching her child.

Money is everywhere and in CA it is hidden everywhere.

My mother has a trust fund that last count was about 2 million but was beng invested. I also share this trust. I live in a three bedroom condo. I do not drive anymore because of my injury but I drove a Buick too.

Two young family members were kidnapped for money in my lifetime, so far.

Traditions? Italian and French. I am not very "mixed." I am Italian by three grandparents and I am French by one. I have dark hair and was the only one in my grade school with dark hair, period. I was the only dark haired girl in my country club and in all the Bank's private clubs we belonged to. I was treated with such racism that my French grandfather offered to "pull all my money out of your bank unless you treat my grandchildren with complete respect. He should not have to had said it.

I am an anomlay. When anyone hears I am Italian, I am pigeonholed into a sterotype that is "Soprano like," and it is thought that we hug a lot, eat a lot and what we eat is all red sauce.

I am northern Italian, our sauces are white and fish is often on the menu at my family home. We do not hug like the Southern Italians, in fact, in Northern Italy, the comfort space for people is 4 FEET. That is my comfort space and I only get closer to hug REAL friends and only for a min.

I raised my sons Italian and they have my value system. My son's are very successful but do not drive the "jeep," or use the I-phone by their choice, they say it looks "cheap,"and they don't need it. My younger son is about to buy his first MAC computer because he is starting his doctorate and he needs it. He had to wrestle with himself before he bought that kind of computer, and trust me, he wrestled.

SO, all his is leading to the fact that I grew up in a "White Privledged suburb until my parents built their own estate on ten acres in the desert.

Anno, I saw traditions in that suburb. I saw so many traditions that my family did not have. My mother often said "No, that's for White girls, blondes." I was told I was not "one of them," so often while I was living in the suburbs that I cannot remember NOT being told I was not one of them. I was not. I was asked out on many dates by white, priviledged boys but they could not introduce me to their parents.

I am tall, have light skin, and dark hair. I have the darkest hair you can have without being Asian. I have brown eyes and that was enough to keep me out of the traditions that the others had in my neighborhood.

The man who "ran," my street was the Grand Dragon of the local KKK too. His daughter was my best friend but I was never asked to spend the night, or eat dinner at their home in nine years that I lived there in suburbia.

Seek, those people, I found as an adult, were "souless." Is that what you are saying?

ALL of that said, with myself defined, Chatty, that was wonderful, that post. It expressed for the "world class," entertainer in my what I would have wanted to say. Beautiful and I know where you got your view. I have it too.

Much to say about other posts but Seek, Deborah, you don't know me and DJ, not so well so I thought I'd tell you about myself and where I am coming from.

Needless to say, I am not interested in what my husband drives or what others think of where I live. I like it. My friends say it is their favorite home, but if they did not, I would live as I do. I am comfy and do not have to run my trust into the ground to be so. I have no need for what it would buy me and I never went through a stage where I wanted more for myself. I only wanted to be the very best person I could be, a family tradition taught to me at every young age.

Consumption is getting more and more obscene. With the money crisis it is downright disgusting to ME. This is only my opinion as my neighbors who have two people in their "family," buy Mercedes SUVs and Hummers.

Arg.

Question your priviledge.

Dancer, defined by her traditions.

I should say that I am pigeon holed by white privileged society and others when they see my modeling and dancing photos. They think I am "all about myself," or I could not be attractive and I could not have my experience.

I can only relate things to my experience. I see outside of myself quite fine, thank you. In fact, I always felt ugly. Why? I was not "White."

Dancer

Meredith,
You said it, everyone likes to "pretend," they have more than they do. They could live in a big home, drive that car that everyone looks up to and be in hock up to their eyeballs.
CA IS one of the worst states for that too.
I think you read them quite well.
Can you tell the difference? How?

Dancer