Meredith, like you, I'm glad that less of this way of thinking exists today - though we knkow it's still out there.

I totally agree with your final comment about interracial children. I had this very thought while riding the subway in NYC with my son. I read a recent article about it on the CBS Web site which I'll share. Here's alink:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/07/eveningnews/main4331336.shtml

Here's the last sentence of the article referenced:

"The census bureau has long predicted that whites would drop below 50 percent of the population by the year 2050. Experts say the new data suggest that shift could come far sooner."

This is great, Orchid. There's a good deal of research about "invisibility" especially among Asians in the US. A friend of mine in grad school, first generation Chinese, was interested in this topic. The research talks about how there's a white/black dichotomy in the US, and Asians often go unnamed, not considered and unnoticed.

We attended an HBCU (historically black college/university) together where we were both in the minority. It was an interesting experience for me as well. There was another white woman there at the same time as I was -- she's 20 years younger, and has dark hair, whereas I have blond hair. And the black students got us mixed up all the time and called us by each others' names.

I'm fascinated by and did my dissertation about looking at those invisible group boundaries that we mentally construct, determining who's "in" our group and who's out. Interestingly, the concept of "whiteness" evolved over a few hundred years, beginning first as a way to distinguish slaves (remember that many of the first slaves in the US were fair skinned, and later slaves were of course part European descent). Southern Mediterraneans (Italians, Greeks, Jews) weren't considered "white" until late 19th, early 20th century. Jeez, even the Irish weren't considered white until about the same time.

I've come to think about difference as more of a mental thing -- that is, I started to feel akin to people who have a similar way of thinking -- by that, I mean problem solving. I'm more of a holistic thinker as opposed to linear. I don't understand linear-thinking people very well. They have to start at step one, and go along until they figure out the solution, whereas I tend to see a big picture and go from there. I appreciate them, and appreciate that way of thinking, but it's not the way I do it. This transcends ethnicity, color, gender and nationality.

The cool thing about grouping people this way is that we can probably move between one way and the other.

Hope someone out there understands what I'm saying...

Another piece to add to this conversation is how we see ourselves fitting in. I recently read the book About Face: What Women See When They Look in the Mirror. I believe there was 23 women who participated. They were from differing ethnic backgrounds and have lived in many parts of the country. It was eye opening to hear why women think what they think when they look at themselves. Some of it had to do with what they believed others perceived of their looks.

We have friends who have a child who is adopted from Korea. When he arrived, they lived in upstate NY where he was one of the only Asians in town. When he was about three years old, (he's in his early 30s now) he was watching a symphony orchestra on TV and recognized himself. He said, "Hey Mommy. Look at all the Marks (his name)." Interesting, huh?

I was just thinking, my son went to school and had what he called "brown friends," lol. This was how he distingushed his friends when we asked him which boy he was talking about. "The brown one," he said.

Orchid, the dancers who are not white and cannot "pass," as I do, for white, they feel will disrupt the asthetic of the group. This is some ballet companies. They are breaking down doors by letting in some "light skinned," blacks, and that is sickening, isn't it? They feel the Asian features will disrupt how things look because of the features and the height can be a problem too. One must be over 5'7".
Modern dance groups make good use of multi-racial dancers and Alvin Ailey's troupe only consists of black dancers. This leaves the Asian, or too Italian, too Jewish, too whatever, nowhere to go except to teach! I've seen the most powerful dancers with more than 60 people in their classes because they are SO good, but they are not "white," and look very different, maybe even "ugly," to some people! It is a nightmare, truly. Broadway, however, hires dancers of all nationalities and has for some time. It is a place for the person who was born to dance, (and we are born,) to go.

DJ, I am glad that you mentioned that Italians and Irish and others were not considered white, and some were, in face, slaves here. This is largly unknown.

Meredith, what happened to you, is to me, unbelieveably horrid. I, however, have taken action against those who wore the hoods. Racism is one of my pet peeves times 5. Many WERE victims. I know this from my work undercover with law enforcement. It is NOT okay, for example, that my city did not keep the records of homicides of black people after a certain period of time! Yes, people have been horridly abused and murdered for their skin colour and that IS victimhood, anyway you look at it.

Some can claim to be victims and be correct.

After all we say, all we can do is speak out when someone speaks in a tone of bigotry, notice when someone is abused because of their race, and actively work against it.

Many people are not prejudices but will not speak out. I do, and I've gotten into hot arguments at times with some older than myself who still use terms that make them bigots. Race, sexuality, etc... are no way to judge a person.

Dancer

I live in the south...it runs rampant here...I hate it...absolutely hate it. I don't know what the problem is but most white folks I'm around can't have a conversation without bringing up blacks in a negative way...it just astrounds me. I told my husband that these folks (many in his family) must be obsessed with black people because they talk about them so much. I swear I just don't get it. He says it's because of the history here. I understand the history but, not the continued hatred that exists. I have managed to get his family to stop saying the "N" word around me because they know I'll go off on them. Their excuse of "we don't mean anything by it" doens't fly with me. I ask them...'would you say that in front of a black person?' The answer, of course, is 'no.' I then ask them, 'then why say it at all?' I know I'll never rid the prejudice that exists between blacks/whites here in the deep south, but I don't have to be a part of it.

You know Dee, I could never live for a long time in an area where this lingering stuff still hung around..but what would I know of people who don't say certain things to me or others who are not of the same racial/cultural background.

When I have travelled particularily noticeable to me in the Northeastern U.S., there is a noticeable sharp divide (to me) between the lower class blacks and fewer middle/upper class blacks. What I do sense the latter group, are highly articulate and just stronger presence.

In Vancouver, the presence of blacks is very low...compared to Toronto where there is a strong, large and visible presence of blacks all over the city..Though Canada did have slaves in (in early 1700s to late 1800s), my perception is that many of the blacks, at least in Toronto, are strongly associated with family links in the Caribbean within present to last 2 generations. But nevertheless, there have been documented/reported instances of blacks just followed by police for no real reason. And one of them....was a black off-duty cop!!! For Pete's sake...

Disrupt the aesthetic....groan. Change can be at a glacial pace..

Dotsie, the book looks interesting. If I look in the mirror, I see a tired looking Asian woman who is exposing her facial skin to too much sun.

Orchid...I said I'd never live in the south again just for that reason...but, here I am...Maybe God put me here for a reason...because I am so strongly against prejudice and practice what I preach, maybe that's why I'm here...I don't know.

In the UK at present there are many Polish workers.Many are builders in the cities (London) and locally there are agricultural workers.Also in checkouts at shops.Many are working a lower level than their qualifications.eg. a Masters who is a check out assistant.
I hear things dropped into conversations.A friend is selling her home which has seven rooms.Her window cleaner said as we were leaving one day."Imagine how many Poles could live here?"
In one shop an elderly lady asked the assistant if two tall men shopping there were Eastern European or maybe German? as if anyone knew.The followed this by say "There is a lot of them about"Looking at the people waiting to be served for validation.
I want to say "and what is the purpose of this conversation?" instead I hope this will fade as more movement occurs between countries. The European Union means this is what as a nation we say we want.
I like diversity and when I read in history book how the Irish were treated in the UK whilst many helped build the railways in the nineteenth century I am saddenened.
So has it always existed.The outsider is seen as a threat?

Long history of how Black people who built up our National Health Service were not seen as equal .Many trained nurses working as ward cleaners..so wrong.And well educated men drove buses in London.And this was post WW2.when this nation needed the boat loads of immigraants.
I hate the statement "Its always been like this" I'd rather offer the hand of friendship and tolerance.
Mountain ash